Burnt Audio CD by K3B CANNOT play on external CD playing device, but can play on comp

robin.com.au · 05-23-2007, 01:45 AM

Using Xubuntu 7.04 Feisty Fawn
I want to burn an EXACT copy of an original legitimate Audio CD to a CD-R

Start K3B
choose 'Copy CD'
Source Medium: Audio CD
Burn Medium: Use the same device for burning
Speed: 1x (but later defaulted to 8x)
Copy Mode: Clone Copy
Writing Mode: Auto
Start burn.
K3b asks something about CD-text, maybe I chose yes.

*Plays trumpet tune* Write SUCCESS!!

Burnt Audio CD plays on my Dell Inspiron 6400 DVD-RW/CD-RW, another desktop computer has a slight difficulty.
But more importantly does NOT play on any other external CD playing device (discman,etc) or DVD players (audio CD capable).

But using Nero Express on Windoze burning another exact copy with 16x, plays on ANY audio CD playing devices.

WHY K3B WHY?!?! I worshiped you!

I would like an explanation why bloated Nero burns better please. Is this problem addressed in K3b(other burning apps as well)? Or am I doing something wrong? Should I change a certain setting?

Here's the log I found in ~/.kde/share/apps/k3b/lastlog.log

Code:

[System] K3b Version: 1.0
[System] KDE Version: 3.5.6
[System] QT Version:  3.3.7
[System] Kernel:      2.6.20-15-generic
[Devices] _NEC DVD+-RW ND-6650A 102C (/dev/scd0, ) [CD-R, CD-RW, CD-ROM, DVD-ROM, DVD-R, DVD-RW, DVD+R, DVD+RW, DVD+R DL] [DVD-ROM, DVD-R Sequential, DVD-RW Restricted Overwrite, DVD-RW Sequential, DVD+RW, DVD+R, DVD+R Dual Layer, CD-ROM, CD-R, CD-RW] [SAO, TAO, RAW, SAO/R96R, RAW/R96R, Restricted Overwrite]
[readcd command:] /usr/bin/X11/readom -v dev=/dev/scd0 f=/tmp/kde-robinc/k3b_0.img -clone retries=128 ts=128k 
[readcd] scsidev: '/dev/scd0'
[readcd] devname: '/dev/scd0'
[readcd] scsibus: -2 target: -2 lun: -2
[readcd] Linux sg driver version: 3.5.27
[readcd] Read  speed:  3528 kB/s (CD  20x, DVD  2x).
[readcd] Write speed:  4234 kB/s (CD  24x, DVD  3x).
[readcd] TOC len: 532. First Session: 1 Last Session: 1.
[readcd] 01 10 00 A0 00 00 00 00 01 00 00 
[readcd] 01 10 00 A1 00 00 00 00 2D 00 00 
[readcd] 01 10 00 A2 00 00 00 00 48 26 46 
[readcd] 01 10 00 01 00 00 00 00 00 02 00 
[readcd] 01 10 00 02 00 00 00 00 06 20 00 
[readcd] 01 10 00 03 00 00 00 00 0B 09 2A  
...etc similar to above line...
[readcd] Lead out 1: 326770
[readcd] Capacity: 326770 Blocks = 653540 kBytes = 638 MBytes = 669 prMB
[readcd] Sectorsize: 2048 Bytes
[readcd] Copy from SCSI (1,0,0) disk to file '/tmp/kde-robinc/k3b_0.img'
[readcd] end:    326770
[readcd] addr:        0 cnt: 26
[readcd] addr:       26 cnt: 26
[readcd] addr:       52 cnt: 26
...etc similar to above line...

--------DVD--------
Also when I burn PS2 game .iso files with Gnome Nautilus, XFburn, on 2x , it does not play on my old PS2 with a weak laser. However DVD-Decrypter on Wine burnt with 2x plays wonderfully on the PS2.

Same problem as Audio CD but with a DVD.

WHY? Explanation? Fix?
-------end DVD--------

I'm considering another app like gnomebaker, gtoaster, graveman but I need assurance, I do not want to waste another CD-R. Please recommend me an app only if you are certain that it works on external devices.
I really want to use a native application, not windoze apps running wine. We want to be free from winblows right?

**Problem resolved from post #3 and #10**
Do not use 'Clone Copy' for audio cds with K3b!

Thanks in advance,
Robin

FMC · 05-23-2007, 07:54 PM

Try to copy the image using:
$ cp /dev/<your CD device> ~/image.iso

And burn it.

Try changing your media too, some sound systens have problems to read some medias!

[] 's, FMC!

daihard · 05-23-2007, 08:05 PM

I have been copying audio CDs using k3b for quite a while without running into any problem. One thing I'd suggest is that you use "Normal Copy" instead of "Clone Copy." I can't explain why, but I remember "Clone Copy" not working correctly.

robin.com.au · 05-24-2007, 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FMC

Try to copy the image using:
$ cp /dev/<your CD device> ~/image.iso

I like command lines, but im avoiding it because it's for my dad, he isn't computer savvy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FMC

Try changing your media too, some sound systens have problems to read some medias!

I use the same CD-R for burning with Nero on Windoze, and with K3B on Linux. Nero copy can play on CD players, K3B copy cannot. So there should be something i'm doing wrong with K3B.

Quote:

Originally Posted by daihard

One thing I'd suggest is that you use "Normal Copy" instead of "Clone Copy." I can't explain why, but I remember "Clone Copy" not working correctly.

I see. One reason I chose 'Clone Copy' is cos it sounded more like an 'exact' copy than 'normal copy' due to reading the following site I found on google.

http://k3b.plainblack.com/message-bo...and-clone-copy

Also another reason is Clone Copy produces two files, .img and .toc, whereas Normal Copy produces many .wav files. But strangely, in no way can it produce just one .iso file which is what I prefer. Why is that?

Anyway I'll try the 'Normal Copy' on Saturday when i'll be in the office to use the CD players and get back to you.

Meanwhile if there's any more explanation to my 'why?'s, please post.

Thanks all,
Robin

FMC · 05-24-2007, 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robin.com.au

...But strangely, in no way can it produce .iso files which is what I prefer. Why is that?

K3B removes the .iso file when it complete writting, thats the reason.

If you just want to generate the .iso file you should check an option that looks like "Just generate image file" (something like that).

You can try kiso too: http://kiso.sourceforge.net/

I like it, pretty good app!

[]´s, FMC!

Pumalite · 05-24-2007, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FMC

K3B removes the .iso file when it complete writting, thats the reason.

If you just want to generate the .iso file you should check an option that looks like "Just generate image file" (something like that).

You can try kiso too: http://kiso.sourceforge.net/

I like it, pretty good app!

[]´s, FMC!

K3b is just fine. I do all kind of things with it and it plays everywhere. So, make sure your settings are straight.

robin.com.au · 05-24-2007, 11:25 PM

Remember guys/gals, im talking audio CDs here. I checked myself putting in a data CD like an Ubuntu installation CD and it can burn to .iso.

However with an audio CD, K3b does NOT allow burning to .iso.
With normal copy, it ouputs .wav files, with clone copy it outputs .img & .toc.

I guess I just have to accept the fact that for copying audio cd, it does not create any .iso file.

I have yet to try 'normal copy', I'll post back tomorrow.

mdg · 05-25-2007, 01:15 AM

With K3b, I use the "New Audio CD Project" option, select and drag the tracks I want into the Current Projects window and hit Burn.

I just burned a copy now to check it works. Copied to a cdrw which plays in my computer and on the stereo system.

Quote:

I guess I just have to accept the fact that for copying audio cd, it does not create any .iso file.

I'm not sure why you need the iso file, but it shouldn't be a problem to convert the img , toc files to iso

daihard · 05-25-2007, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robin.com.au

I see. One reason I chose 'Clone Copy' is cos it sounded more like an 'exact' copy than 'normal copy' due to reading the following site I found on google.

http://k3b.plainblack.com/message-bo...and-clone-copy

That's what I thought at first, too. However, "Clone Copy" never really worked for me so I switched over to "Normal Copy" to see if it would make any difference. It did. The resulting audio CDs were now be playable on my home/car stereos as well as on my computers.

Strange indeed.

robin.com.au · 05-25-2007, 11:52 PM

You are right daihard. Normal copy works. Thanks!
That makes Clone copy pretty useless doesn't it?
Maybe I have to ask the K3b guys, 'What's up with that?'
For VCDs maybe?

Maybe this thread will help get the message across to other googlers.
DON'T USE CLONE COPY FOR AUDIO CDs!!
Crawl this google.

Anyway I wanted an .iso file because it is just 1 file and it's a pretty popular format, so why not be able to copy to .iso with K3b for audio CDs?

I also got the impression that .iso means the 'exact', 'complete' image of a CD/DVD, so when I saw that K3b created whole bunch of .wav files, I saw it as some form of 'ripping', that maybe some little bits and pieces will get missing between those tracks, even though I knew that .wav files are raw and uncompressed.

I'm probably paranoid but fine with .wav files now, since it works on any CD playing device now and also able to play the extracted .wav from the hard drive whereas you can't with an .iso file.

Thanks all, didn't get a single reply from ubuntuforums, maybe it's getting a bit too crowded there.

Robin

daihard · 05-26-2007, 02:18 AM

You're welcome.

I found the following explanation on k3b.plainblack.com.

Quote:

The normal copy does not ensure that if the original source is bootable that its copy will be but rather the clone copy will be. Clone copy can copy cds/vcds that have multiple data tracks of different types like video and data, but the normal copy of such diska will fail to copy.

I find that to be inaccurate. I have used "Normal Copy" to successfully copy CDs with mixed data - i.e. data and audio tracks. k3b, even with "Normal Copy," is smart enough to use different methods to rip those different parts of the original CD. Which leads to the same question you have - what is the use of "Clone Copy"?

FMC · 05-26-2007, 09:12 AM

There is a program to convert img 2 iso: http://www.t2-project.org/packages/img2iso.html

Last time i tried it was a hard thing to make it work, but it works...!

Thanks for the tip, next time I will try normal copy for audio CDs too!

[]'s, FMC!

Bateman · 05-26-2007, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robin.com.au

Anyway I wanted an .iso file because it is just 1 file and it's a pretty popular format, so why not be able to copy to .iso with K3b for audio CDs?

The ISO format does not support multi-track data or audio CDs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disk_image). If it's important to you that the image file is an exact copy of your Audio CD (for me it often is), then I believe that you need to find another disk image format to use. I'll leave it to the forum to come with suggestions about suitable disk images - I've used Nero's ".NRG" in the past, but don't know whether it works with Nero's linux version or other linux burning software.

Best regards,
B

Bateman · 05-26-2007, 10:23 AM

According to http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?t=145285, Nero for Linux doesn't seem to be able to handle the .nrg files very well...

robin.com.au · 05-27-2007, 04:30 AM

Good on wikipedia. Let me fix that URL a bit for you.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disk_image

Also look up:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_disc#Audio_format

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wav#Audio_CDs says:
"Audio CDs do not use WAV as their sound format, using instead Red Book audio. The commonality is that both audio CDs and WAV files have the audio data encoded in PCM. WAV is a data file format for computer use that can't be understood by CD players directly. To record WAV files to an Audio CD the file headers must be stripped and the remaining PCM data written directly to the disc as individual tracks with zero padding added to match the CD's sector size."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Boo...o_CD_standard) says:
"The Red Book standard is not freely available and must be licensed from Philips."

So I guess WAV is the way to go? Well I guess you don't have a choice if you are using K3b.

But one question still remains:
What does "Clone Copy" do?
I'm just gonna assume it's only suited for VCDs.