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Old 11-22-2016, 04:02 PM   #16
szboardstretcher
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doraimom View Post
Sorry, but I disagree. I have just mentioned two alternatives, so there are alternatives to mention.
It doesn't matter if you agree or disagree about a FACT. It is a very easily verifiable fact. Crossover and Playonlinux use wine.

Last edited by szboardstretcher; 11-22-2016 at 04:03 PM.
 
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Old 11-22-2016, 09:03 PM   #17
TB0ne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doraimom View Post
TB0ne, I'll start thanking you for your reply. Your message was really interesting and it gave me really good ideas. Thank you.
I'll try to comment everything you said.
You said I'm rude because I shut down the suggestion to try to debug the problems I am experiencing with wine. That's a valid suggestion, I agree with you, but that's not what I'm trying to accomplish with this post. You may understand it as rude, but I just don't want my post to take a direction that was not intended for it to take, leaving the main reason why I created the post to be casted aside. I am pretty sure you are a reasonable person and you will understand that there is logic in what I am writing here. I have also shut down the suggestion to use a virtual machine. Again, it's a very reasonable suggestion, but if I were to take that road, I wouldn't bother to create this post. I know how to use and install a virtual machine, and for me it's not a good solution to run linux and windows inside it just for the sake of one piece of software, even if it's an important one. Most of our machines are old and to run two operating systems together is not an option to us. Simple as that. I do not wish to be interpreted as rude, but that's just a road we don't want to take.
No virtual machine and no wine debug tries. Not rude, pragmatic, and objective. Sorry if anyone feels offended by that.
No, rude because of your language and behavior. Explaining things is one thing; saying "It's not of my interest" and "I don't want to have to Google it" says that you aren't interested in putting effort into solving YOUR PROBLEM, and want us to do it for you. Then, when you're offered ideas, you turn them down.

If you want suggestions and opinions, you say "thank you"..not "it's not of my interest" or such things. If you only want your own opinion, then don't post questions seeking suggestions at all.

Again, this is for your COMPANY...either they need to spend the $$$ on hardware/software, or not. This isn't coming out of your pocket, and if it *IS*, then you have no excuses for not upgrading, period. Old hardware, old software, old database...time to update or evaporate.
Quote:
You also said that there is a firebird version for Linux. That is really worth a try and I confess I have never used it before inside linux, but I may try to do it now after your suggestion. The only problems are:
1) Even in windows, newer versions of firebird are incompatible with the software we use, so the same thing will probably happen in linux.
...which you have NO IDEA about or not, since you haven't tried it, and (seemingly), couldn't even be bothered to look at the Firebird site to solve your OWN PROBLEM.
Quote:
2) Yes, our software is old, it should be upgraded, that's what is the best solution in the theoretical world, but in real life there is no newer version for the software we use, it's not upgradable, and we are not going to spend money implementing a new system and a mygration program for all our data, we will not pay for new trainings, and so one. We are not in condition to assume that kind of investment now, and that's how real life is, and that's why I'm trying to find an alternative solution here.
'real life' is you either move forward or get left behind. NONE of your arguments are valid, period. If your company is making ANY profit at all, they can afford a workstation. If you're the IT person, then they're paying you to get this done.
Quote:
You also talk about alternatives for firebird. The software we use is firebird dependent and we don't have anyone capable of implementing it to work differently with anything but firebird. If I knew how to do that this post wouldn't exist.
Then hire someone. The application didn't fall out of the sky...SOMEONE wrote it. In-house talent? Get them to udpate it. Contractor? Hire another. Third-party that doesn't exist anymore? Get a new app. Third-party with a new version? BUY IT

Since you still haven't said what this piece of hugely important, business-critical software is (but apparently, not important enough to actually spend money on, update or replace (???), we can't help.
Quote:
Anyway, I'll take a closer look in your suggestion of using firebird natively in linux, but I think that will not work because I'll have our software inside wine trying to access remote that through firebird that isn't installed in the wine environment. Anyway, I'll try to find a way to make that work. Maybe, running only our software with wine things might get more stable, but again, newer versions of firebird were not compatible with our private software.
This indicates that you don't have a good grasp of how a client/server DB application works. Where the database is DOES NOT MATTER...Linux/Windows/Mac...an application has NO IDEA what is hosting the database. The software makes a connection to the socket, and receives a response, period. So "firebird that isn't installed in the wine environment" makes no sense.

If this is your own private, in-house software, there is even LESS reason to not update it. A programmer working for your company wrote it, and they can change it.
Quote:
Edited:
Of course you understand the meaning of this sentence in the context. It's not about being lazy and expecting others to do my searches. What I tried to say is that it's very time consuming to test and try every alternative out there, since it's not just about installing and configuring it, but it would need a trial period of tests, etc. to know if any other alternative software in the market is better than wine or not. In that sense, I requested the help of the community that has been testing all these alternatives since wine and crossover, and later others first appeared in the market promising to allow people to run their windows software inside linux. Anyone reading my sentence with good will, will know that that was the meaning behind it.
No, anyone reading it would thing "geez, that was snotty". Not sure how else to take things like "It's not of my interest" and "I don't want to have to Google"...they're plain rude. This isn't a help desk...if you came into my office in person and said that, I'd introduce you to the door pretty quickly.

Since you're 'pragmatic', you should easily realize that IT IS YOUR JOB to perform ALL of the above testing/research/etc., to keep your company working. YOU are getting paid to do it. You were told flat-out that there is WINE and Windows for Windows software, and that WINE is (and will remain, probably), a not 100% alternative. Grasp at straws all you want about playonlinux and crossover, but they are WINE with plugins.

Move forward, or enjoy the ever-growing list of junk you have to install and maintain to keep your business-critical (but old and unsupported, and don't want to spend money on) software running. Your choice.
 
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Old 11-23-2016, 07:58 AM   #18
zenoo
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Sorry but there are no alternatives.
If you really need that old program on linux, you'll have to get your hands dirty or buy the professional support of Codeweavers.
 
Old 11-23-2016, 04:20 PM   #19
jefro
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If we get back to professional discussion.

Crossover would be slightly better in my opinion to wine. The code base in crossover is the newest usually.

The project ReactOS may run the software but ReactOS is an OS so you'd need to run it in a container or VM.

You never know what might run on dosbox too.
 
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Old 11-27-2016, 11:34 AM   #20
Yoda47
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https://www.codeweavers.com/about/support-wine
 
Old 11-27-2016, 12:15 PM   #21
sundialsvcs
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The scenario as described clearly calls for the purchase of Microsoft Windows(!) licenses to run the necessary mission-critical software . . .

. . . and for that software to be upgraded as soon as possible. You never want to continue having a system in-service if doing so now requires that you run through backward-compatible hoops from ten or fifteen years ago.

As others have said, there are newer versions of the Firebird software. There are also SQL engines which support its version-based transaction scheme.

It is "business insanity" to continue trying to breathe life into an old horse.
 
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Old 11-27-2016, 01:16 PM   #22
Sefyir
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As OP may be discovering, there is a shortage of real "alternatives" in the FOSS world.
The goal is have software that works well. Not to have software "exclusive" to this or that.
A easy analogy that does the opposite is gaming consoles and their "This game only works on Console X!

So typically, for a specific goal (getting windows stuff to work on linux) there isn't a lot of alternatives but one monolithic project. Then there is subsequently projects that fork that copy the main base of that software at that time and then change parts of it and then call it a new name (which is what I suspect Crossover linux is, and I think PlayonLinux is a front end to wine, and is GPL). These projects will often send these changes back to whomever they forked it from (or sending contributions upstream) and they will often take changes from the main base to their own project (downstream). The primary point of these "other" projects is generally around improving the user interface and providing support for their specific focus.
Which they should of course be compensated for or have their own teams / groups.

wine is licensed under the GPL (and any later versions). It does not prevent charging for it. Examine the license yourself.
https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html
Especially if OP's understanding of it is currently:

Quote:
Are you sure? As far as I know, an opensource software, even if you make big changes in it, it can never become a proprietary software like Crossover is.
The license of every opensource software says that. You may change it as you see fit, but you can never charge for it.
There is no exception as far as I know and Crossover is a payed software.
OP has declined to debug the software, update the software relying on this database, update the software in question that has become linux compatible, declined using a VM, and apparently denied really searching for their own answer

I would suggest OP be thankful for the wide array of responses this thread already contains, realize the issue is not with wine and expend resources getting their business critical software updated to work.

A little extra reading of crossover license

Code:
 Free Software. The Software contained in this product includes some
      components of Free Software, including software from the Wine Project,
      the X Window System (x.org), and the quartz-wm window manager.

      The Wine project is licensed under terms of the GNU Lesser General Public
      License, which is included below as Appendix A. The best source for the
      Wine source code is the main Wine web page at http://www.winehq.org.

We include source code with each CD purchase of CrossOver. Current
      source code for Free Software contained within CrossOver products is also
      generally available at our web site, www.codeweavers.com. However,
      individuals wishing to obtain source directly from us will be cheerfully
      provided with a copy of any Free Software source upon request.

Last edited by Sefyir; 11-27-2016 at 01:18 PM.
 
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Old 11-27-2016, 01:36 PM   #23
notKlaatu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sundialsvcs View Post
The scenario as described clearly calls for the purchase of Microsoft Windows(!) licenses to run the necessary mission-critical software . . .

. . . and for that software to be upgraded as soon as possible. You never want to continue having a system in-service if doing so now requires that you run through backward-compatible hoops from ten or fifteen years ago.

As others have said, there are newer versions of the Firebird software. There are also SQL engines which support its version-based transaction scheme.

It is "business insanity" to continue trying to breathe life into an old horse.
Just to re-enforce what sundialsvcs is saying, here: if your client or, worse yet, your boss is telling you to try to get around purchasing a license, then you should refuse to do that. Preferably, in writing (for example, an email trail). If this is what's happening, then they are not only doing something illegal, but they are requiring you to do something illegal in order to keep your job or your contract, which is doubly illegal. Do not do something illegal for them; they won't take the blame if it is discovered, and you'll look like the bad guy, and you'll have to deal with the consequences.

Tell your client or boss that if they want Firebird to continue to run, they MUST update their license or pay for your time and effort to find a $0, and legal, replacement.

I've been in this situation before. Trust me, it does not end well for you, so stand your ground, be responsible, and do not agree to follow illegal orders.
 
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