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Old 03-22-2005, 02:35 PM   #76
twilli227
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Quote:
Nuff said: "Four out of five professional criminals recommend Linux!"
Recommend linux? I would like to see 4 criminals be able to use linux let alone recommend it.
Quote:
If you think you are wasting your time responding to my questions,
you are in the wrong business.
I must be in the wrong business, if all I got out of this thread is a chuckle.
Quote:
Here in SECURITY, I asked about the dangers of trying to set up MSN messenger on my Linux box,
and there have been 75 postings!
I must have missed the part about setting up MSN messenger in linux. Can you really do that?
 
Old 03-22-2005, 06:04 PM   #77
penguinlnx
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>> "I'd like to see 4 criminals be able to use Linux."

It all depends on your definition of criminal.
A Texan cop might define that with the 'N' word.
Others might more naturally think CEO.
 
Old 03-22-2005, 07:44 PM   #78
2damncommon
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Quote:
I must be in the wrong business, if all I got out of this thread is a chuckle.
Ditto.
Seemed somewhat straight forward at first but seems more like clasic usenet trolling by now.
Rhetoric followed by rhetoric and answering each poster with more rhetoric endlessly.
 
Old 03-22-2005, 07:58 PM   #79
penguinlnx
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>> "Rhetoric followed by rhetoric and answering each poster with more rhetoric endlessly."

If that's how you feel, why don't you try answering a few useful tech questions?

This has turned into something of a lynching party. And I think its counter-productive and a bit bloated. But you should talk to the ring-leaders of the mob, not the guy they're dragging behind the pickup truck.

Let me re-post some useful, important tech questions (at least to me )

1) How can I get JAVA working properly so I can use Yahoo (and other) Chatrooms? (my original problem part a)

2) How can I hook up MSN messenger under Linux safely? (my original idea part b)

3) How can I secure my system before surfing the net? (still only partly answered, and inadequately explained to a newbie like me)

4) How can I get my F**king printer working before I go insane and strap on a TNT vest with a dead-man switch and head for Brother INC. dressed as a pizza delivery boy?

Quit riding me for yesterday's messages and lend us hand.
 
Old 03-22-2005, 08:47 PM   #80
2damncommon
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Quote:
If that's how you feel, why don't you try answering a few useful tech questions?
Because I know there is no way I can help a poster whose every response is a question.
 
Old 03-23-2005, 01:04 AM   #81
penguinlnx
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>>Because I know there is no way I can help a poster whose every response is a question.

What a laugh.

(1) I still have questions. So you say there's no way you can help me.

(2) I give opinions. I haven't the same technical expertise as you, so I'm a "troll".

(3) I provide information to support my opinions on your request, and I'm a spammer.

(4) I complain about the treatment I got, and I'm 'playing the victim'.

(5) As a newbie, I don't have the same perspective as Linux that you do, so I'm smoking pot.

(6) I make a few jokes. They're funny enough for you to laugh, but not associate with.

(7) A half-dozen people give statements and opinions, but only mine are questioned, analyzed and attacked. What you think I can't smell piss and see the steam while you're telling me it's raining?
 
Old 03-23-2005, 01:11 AM   #82
penguinlnx
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>> "all I got out of this thread was a chuckle"

Maybe if you had come to put something into it instead, everyone could have benefited, including you.
 
Old 03-23-2005, 01:44 AM   #83
TigerOC
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Quote:
Originally posted by penguinlnx

Let me re-post some useful, important tech questions (at least to me )

1) How can I get JAVA working properly so I can use Yahoo (and other) Chatrooms? (my original problem part a)
Download the Linux package (not rpm) on this page and follow the directions given. It is quite straight forward. If you have problems ask for help.

Quote:
2) How can I hook up MSN messenger under Linux safely? (my original idea part b)
I don't think you can as this is a M$ product. You could try using wine which is a M$ emulator running under Linux but it tends to be buggy. The best Linux one I have found is Gaim. It may be installed as a standard app on your distro

Quote:
3) How can I secure my system before surfing the net? (still only partly answered, and inadequately explained to a newbie like me)
You will find a good basic firewall here

Quote:
4) How can I get my F**king printer working before I go insane and strap on a TNT vest with a dead-man switch and head for Brother INC. dressed as a pizza delivery boy?
The best printing utility in Linux is cups. There is probably a package for your distro available which means just installing it. Check that the printer is supported by cups by looking for supported printers at http://www.cups.org/

Quote:
Quit riding me for yesterday's messages and lend us hand.
It is difficult to help someone who is openly hostile. Linux, like every os around, has its own structures and way of doing things. If you wish to get info ask. When you get a response try to digest the meaning and if you don't understand go away and do some research with Google etc. If you still don't understand ask some more questions. Open hostility and unfounded allegations don't help you and certainly engender hostile responses. There is an old saying "you catch more bees with honey than with vinegar".
Please bear in mind that everyone that visits this forum does so because they enjoy learning and helping others and do it for the pleasure. We are lucky to have some very well qualified members here who give up their time for nothing and they should be appreciated and applauded for this.
 
Old 03-23-2005, 03:09 AM   #84
penguinlnx
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And credit given where it's due. Thank you for your help, TigerOC.

Those who are just posting with comments but not helping could benefit remembering a few things:

(a) Over 700 people have been following this thread. That's a lot of interest, and a lot of people looking for answers, as well as a lot of people who want to hear both sides of the coin on a lot of issues. A good teacher doesn't humiliate those students who are a bit rebellious, somewhat slow, or who dare to ask a few too many questions, by making them stand in the middle of the class and have strips torn out of them. Instead its an opportunity to clarify the lesson with encouragement for all, in spite of a few interruptions, some ignoring of instructions, or hyperactivity. In short, if you haven't the patience, don't teach, let alone preach.

(b) Everyone goes through difficult stages while on a learning curve, and not everyone has to get the same mark. For every loud kid with too many questions that seems to challenge authority for its own sake, there are ten kids in the class who secretly are glad that someone (and not them) dared to ask the question that was burning in them, but they didn't have the courage to speak up about or the ability to articulate properly. And everybody has been in that position throughout their lives again and again. Why not be grateful to someone who is giving you an opportunity to correct them and voice your own more accurate, seasoned, and important opinion.

(c) If you ever were a kid, you'll remember the thousands of times adults accused you of deliberate, malicious, rude, defiant, rebellious behaviour, when inside you absolutely knew they were completely full of shiite, and the most you were guilty of was being completely clueless as to what was going on around you, perhaps right under your nose. As you grew older, most of you didn't become all those things, nor were you really trying to avoid them either. The truth is, for most of us, we are as clueless as we always were, but we are sometimes a bit better at avoiding the appearance of being rude, defiant, and malicious, cause we've been burned so many times. So give me the benefit of the doubt, and I will do the same.

(d) I am not Pandora, and I don't have a magic box... (LoL) So nothing I've said is going to unleash hoards of lemmings rushing into the sea. People don't post messages on the web because they want to put it all in writing like a legal contract. I don't post so I can be Moses and have my ideas carved in stone. This is just a conversation in a different medium. I won't be held by the exact wording of every remark made here forever. People normally post things not to give them artificially long life, but to reach more people with more ideas, as many as possible. On the other hand, people often speak what's already in the air. Some ideas have a life of their own, and you can't kill them before their time, or keep them alive beyond it. I'm not going to claim authorship, credit, or blame for many things said, cause I'm not that original. I don't yell 'fire' in theatres, or 'hijack' in airports, and that should be enough for you people.

This has been a public service announcement. Thank you for your time and caring.

Last edited by penguinlnx; 03-23-2005 at 03:41 AM.
 
Old 03-23-2005, 04:06 AM   #85
TigerOC
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No problem penguinlnx. If you have problems with any of the above then post the request in the relevant section of LQ as a separate question. i.e. Gentoo related stuff in the distro's section, firewall stuff here in security. Gaim (any IM) and java stuff in Newbie help or General. By doing this you will get the best attention. Most people who visit the security section run servers so you may not get the attention you deserve. Good luck - I hope you succeed in mastering this os.

Last edited by TigerOC; 03-23-2005 at 04:08 AM.
 
Old 03-23-2005, 08:14 AM   #86
2damncommon
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Quote:
Originally posted by penguinlnx
Those who are just posting with comments but not helping could benefit remembering a few things
Amen to that.
 
Old 03-23-2005, 09:04 AM   #87
KimVette
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(order reshuffled a bit)

Quote:
Originally posted by penguinlnx
>>Because I know there is no way I can help a poster whose every response is a question.

What a laugh.

(1) I still have questions. So you say there's no way you can help me.
You ignore the replies and still maintain "But. . . but. . . . but. . . " like a three-year-old.

Quote:
(5) As a newbie, I don't have the same perspective as Linux that you do, so I'm smoking pot.
So, as a self-proclaimed newbie, you hold fairly strong opinions and don't accept the answers.

As an admitted newbie, have you considered RTFMing a bit? Take some responsibility and learn from the many, many, many piles of documentation, thesis papers, and various other information covering *nix security and why it it is so difficult for malicious code to propogate from box to box.

Quote:
(2) I give opinions. I haven't the same technical expertise as you, so I'm a "troll".
Again, giving opinions out of ignorance, especially after having been corrected, been pointed in the right direction, etc. and still maintaining the same opinion, is, well, at best moronic. This is why folks have flagged you as a troll.
 
Old 03-23-2005, 10:18 AM   #88
penguinlnx
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Hats of to TigerOC for the mature, practical and helpful response.

I think you are right in that I will be better off splitting off some of my questions,
and posting them separately in other Forums/areas.

At this point I have the printer working to the point of printing single pages. A limping start.

It looks from what you've said at this point that the kids aren't going to get back on MSN messenger
via Linux anytime soon, and they aren't going to be thrilled about that.

The JAVA/browser problem for Yahoo Chat may be easier to solve, since it doesn't involve Microsoft.
I will take that over to another area and pursue it.

Security for Linux seems to be in a state of flux. Of course systems can be made less vulnerable to known attack techniques. But the biggest single factor in security is still 'user error' as always, or environmental conditions, and no OS can be invulnerable in those circumstances. That is, whether people here want to rope it all under 'SysAdmin Laziness', (which may be quite apt for Server systems,) or leave it as just all the other security issues,( like ill-planned procedures and disgruntled employees,) Insecurity is here to stay for now.

I think if I were to post again in this section, I'd either try to narrow the scope for 'Server People', or simply try to get other people engaged, and make it clearer what the scope of my thread is meant to be. I have no real regrets about this thread, and I have learned alot listening, whether others think so or not.

Thanks to all the sincere contributors to this thread. Including all who disagreed with me on various issues and must be far wiser than I. Who knows? Someday I might even catch up!
 
Old 03-23-2005, 10:20 AM   #89
jtshaw
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I believe gaim supports MSN's message protocol...
 
Old 03-23-2005, 11:32 AM   #90
TigerOC
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Quote:
Originally posted by penguinlnx


Security for Linux seems to be in a state of flux. Of course systems can be made less vulnerable to known attack techniques. But the biggest single factor in security is still 'user error' as always, or environmental conditions, and no OS can be invulnerable in those circumstances. That is, whether people here want to rope it all under 'SysAdmin Laziness', (which may be quite apt for Server systems,) or leave it as just all the other security issues,( like ill-planned procedures and disgruntled employees,) Insecurity is here to stay for now.

Linux using iptables firewalls is fairly immune to attack. If you are on an ADSL connection and your router has a built in firewall use it as a primary defence and not allow any available service. The iptables firewall given in the link basically works by allowing requested packets through but nothing else. i.e. if you requested connection to a website it will allow those packets through the firewall but if someone tries to initiate contact with you it will drop the packets and it will seem to the initiator that you do not exist. If you read some of the security reports it has been calculated that it could take a few weeks or months for a cracker to break a good encrypted password on a Linux system. Use shadow passwords and make sure that they are as complex as possible. As far as e-mail delivery of malware and spam is concerned then that is a new ball game. There are steps that can be taken to eliminate these. For example you can use a package called fetchmail which will collect mail from your mail server and then you can get a virus scanner like f-prot and spamassassin to scan the messages and move any containing malware or spam to a disposal area. Your network users would then collect their mail internally from a common mail server and only receive clean mail. This maybe sometime down the line for you. I use this system very successfully.
 
  


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