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Penguin of Wonder 02-14-2006 01:05 PM

Windows Vista --- wait all those thing sound linux?
 
I found this page on Yahoo! News. Yes Yahoo! for all you Google fanatics... i love Yahoo.

Windows Vista News Article

What do you guys think? Is the technology behind current and soon-to-be versions of Linux as advanced as Vista is claiming to be? How many of those features sound like a rip-off of what Linux already offers? Finally, does anyone here plan on switching to Vista from XP or, dare I say it, switching to Vista from Linux?

the_darkside_986 03-22-2006 05:28 PM

The new graphical system sounds like a waste of resources. Who needs a fancier window bar? The stuff inside the window, not the three buttons in the top right corner ( _, [], and X), is what matters. I won't be purchasing or running it on my old PC anytime. Besides, when new hardware comes out, Windows should sit still and allow that power to be harnessed by games instead of taking up over 700 MB when the machine has 1024 MB of RAM.

They said on NPR news that Vista final release is going to be delayed until January (I think) next year for customers to buy, but it will be available for big businesses in November as planned. I guess that means I shouldn't buy a new desktop PC until next year :(. I need Windows for gaming (only) but I think it is important to have the newest OS for compatibility reasons. But then again, the MSDNAA software package at school might be able to hook us students up with Vista when it comes out.

Quote:

2. Internet Explorer 7: IE gets a much-needed, Firefox-inspired makeover, complete with tabbed pages and better privacy management. There's also the color-coded Address Bar that lets you know if a page is secured by a digital key, or, thanks to new antiphishing features, if it's a phony Web site just looking to steal information about you.
It's kinda pathetic that fancy expensive professional commercial software is pure crap until it copies the ideas of a higher quality free open-source solution. But this is the pattern of Microsoft. And I'm still going to use Firefox.

Even if I have Vista on a new PC, I'm still going to use Linux for my non-gaming tasks. Right now, I'm d/ling Fedora Core 5. I am going to make it run on my machine. I don't know how, but I am determined.

TigerLinux 03-22-2006 10:56 PM

Vista is delayed to 2007, so long to wait? XP is good enough.

Penguin of Wonder 03-22-2006 11:01 PM

I think Vista will be worth the wait though. The longer Microsoft takes making it, hopefully the fewer flaws it will ship with.

the_darkside_986 03-23-2006 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penguin of Wonder
I think Vista will be worth the wait though. The longer Microsoft takes making it, hopefully the fewer flaws it will ship with.

As sloppy as Microsoft's OS's are, the longer it takes them to make it, the more bugs and security holes it will ship with. :P

I'll have to get a new PC by then anyways because I can't get Fedora Core 5 installed because my crappy non-upgradable BIOS can't boot from USB CD Drives :mad: and the installation guide says that it is not possible to boot from floppies to install FC5. And I'm sure it will be the same for Vista. Compaq can go to hell for not making the PC with upgradable BIOS. If only I knew about PC's what I know now when my parents bought that $1500 outdated thing.

nx5000 03-23-2006 06:12 AM

"to Vista from XP"

First I would have to switch from 2000 to XP but I see no technical argument.

"Security, security, security: Windows XP Service Pack 2 patched a lot of holes, but Vista takes security to the next level. There are literally too many changes to list here, from the bidirectional software firewall"
Muahaha bidirectionnal firewall waouhhhh

weibullguy 03-23-2006 08:24 AM

I agree, alot of the things sound Linux.
Quote:

Meet the old boss, same as the new boss...
probably sums Vista up, but we'll see.

Quote:

It's kinda pathetic that fancy expensive professional commercial software is pure crap until it copies the ideas of a higher quality free open-source solution. But this is the pattern of Microsoft.
Let's not forget that Microsoft hasn't had an original idea since...ever! DOS was an imitation, Windows was an imitation. There's a sucker born every minute and Bill Gates has sold every one of them an OS.

den15 03-23-2006 09:32 AM

"Compaq can go to hell for not making the PC with upgradable BIOS."

:D Compaq doesn't exist any more!

the_darkside_986 03-23-2006 12:48 PM

Yeah I know HP acquired them. They can still go to hell even if they are now inside HP. And HP can also go to hell because their printer I tried to use today on my dad's PC won't work right. They way its designed--it can't detect any paper in the feed.

geeman2.0 03-23-2006 01:24 PM

It may SOUND like linux, but it certainly won't LOOK like linux.
Not as long as they still have talking paper clips anyways.

jproveaux 03-23-2006 01:56 PM

Some really creative individual decided to post this "really creative" post at arstechnica.com forums:

Quote:

Vista -> Beta until December .......
Linux -> Beta forever
Vista will ultimately have it's proper applications in the business world. Major corporations are going to side with Microsoft because the product looks, smells, feels more reliable on paper and really that's all companies are looking for.

That being said...Wintendo:Vista will be another gaming OS to add to my collection.

Linux scares people.

Hobbletoe 03-23-2006 02:16 PM

Why the delay you ask ...
 
Even better are the reasons for the delay ...

"Jim Allchin, co-president of Microsoft's Platforms & Services Division and head Vista honcho, said that Vista's quality problems are in performance, drivers, testing, and security."

The above from Linux Watch.

moloko23 03-23-2006 06:39 PM

I think I'll switch to Vista on my Windows machine. I use XP just for gaming, everything else is done using Mac OS and now I'm becoming accustomed to Linux. I say UNIX OS' will always be the leaders and MS will just slug behind and try to overtake by tempting consumers with eye candy interfaces. I don't really need that, unless of course its a game, then I love the eye candy, but if I have a serious task I'd rather take care of it in an environment more like Mac OS 8.

nx5000 03-24-2006 04:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_darkside_986
And HP can also go to hell

I understand you can be angry due to not working hardware but world is not perfect.. have a look at kernel.org you will see that HP is kind enough to provide servers for repositories of Linux kernels.

nirmaltom 03-24-2006 06:28 AM

hi,
i am from india.When Microsoft launched WindowsXp in india,it challenged that the people wont be able to pirate this operating system as both india and china are famous for pirating.But the really fun matter is that pirated copies were made available before its launch.So , i think its merely a waste of time to look over microsoft's promises.
Also,due to the money value here, it will never capture the desktop market here.If it captures then it will be pirated.Any how, it may get its revenue by the large number of software companies available here.
regards,
Tom.

Penguin of Wonder 03-24-2006 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nx5000
I understand you can be angry due to not working hardware but world is not perfect.. have a look at kernel.org you will see that HP is kind enough to provide servers for repositories of Linux kernels.

This one cracks me up because I agree with both. I hate HPs hardware because I never seem to get it to work right (i.e. the printers), but on the other hand HP does alot more for Linux than most companies do, so I love them for that. I guess their calcualtors are ok too ;-)

moloko23 03-24-2006 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penguin of Wonder
their calcualtors are ok too ;-)

Texas Instruments TI-83 Silver Edition is what rocks the calculator world :P

Penguin of Wonder 03-24-2006 09:20 PM

I prefer my TI-89 personally, but almost all of my professors use HPs... must of been really popular in the 70s and 80s.

johndoe0028 03-25-2006 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jproveaux
Vista -> Beta until December .......
Linux -> Beta forever

Hah! The difference is...Linux is usable, even if "It's in beta forever".

lleb 03-25-2006 01:29 AM

as for vista delayed release. i am glad. it will give the price of the hardware needed to run that bloated os a chance to come down in price. also with the fact that you HAVE to buy new hwardware to run Vista properly i doubt many business will switch any time soon.

1. buy new OS for typical $150 or so
2. buy new hardware to run that new OS for roughly $1000

so in order for companies to upgrade they will spend roughly $1150 per computer to upgrade to Vista, i think not for a long time to come.

As for personally switching over to vista, not any time soon as long as i can use Cedega to play my games and have access to OSx and Linux WTF do i need MS for?

on the HP issue, their single printer units are OK, their drivers for windows and OSx are bloated piles of steaming poo, but they do produce good quality.

i just bought a nice new Samsung lazer printer for my office. why? simple on the packaging it lists the following for compatable OSs:

Windows, OSx, Linux

right there on the box, on the store front display tag (you know thost little cards with the item details on it) Linux. first itme i have seen in a regular consumer product store (look at both CompUSA and Bestbuy. got it at bestbuy for $200 less then compusa) advertising to work with Linux.

the driver install was litteraly less then 10sec. took longer to put the CD in the drive and mount it (OSx) then it did to install the drivers.

so not only did it work right off the bat, but the drivers are extreemly light and easy on the system. prints great btw.

TigerLinux 03-26-2006 12:19 AM

Some screeshots of latest Vista Beta:
http://www.flexbeta.net/main/comment...shownews=18760

I heard vista is using Directx 10.0, it requires 4GB memory for Games. True ?

cs-cam 03-26-2006 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TigerLinux
Some screeshots of latest Vista Beta:
http://www.flexbeta.net/main/comment...shownews=18760

I heard vista is using Directx 10.0, it requires 4GB memory for Games. True ?

Yes Vista will be using DirectX 10, no this is not a good thing for graphics hardware as it will stop the newest games using the newest graphics technologies. 4GB RAM, I doubt it, people are running the beta on 512MB...

daihard 03-27-2006 05:06 AM

Since I develop software for platforms including Windows, I will at one point be forced to switch from XP to Vista at work. Well, it's not my money. :p

I do have an XP computer at home, but it only gets fired up when I work from home and need XP for the work I need to do. Ninety-nine percent of the time, the only computers I use are Linux boxes.

nx5000 03-27-2006 05:31 AM

It's not good for hardware cards but its very good for Hardware Cards vendors. I'm sure they are very happy that the new Window will be a cpu hog and will be cooperative to give info/develop drivers for their hardware.

RHELL 03-27-2006 02:26 PM

I like it when they release a new Winders, it makes anything less than a brand-new machine 'obsolete' to MS users, and I can build a Linux server farm for peanuts.

asimba 03-27-2006 02:43 PM

thats not all - MS plans to release 6 versions of Vista -

Check out this link

http://www.informationweek.com/news/...leID=181400097

[Excerpt]

- Windows Vista Business includes similar features to today's Windows XP Professional edition, including backup, networking, and group policy support. It includes Microsoft's new Aero user interface, a new search engine, and small-business features such as fax and scanning software and easier-to-understand help menus.

- Windows Vista Enterprise, available to Microsoft's largest corporate customers, adds new BitLocker hard-drive encryption, a virtual PC program for running software written for other platforms, and a new subsystem for running Unix apps.

- Windows Vista Home Premium is designed for the majority of home PC users and includes the ability to show photos on a large-screen TV, play music on a home stereo, write and copy DVDs, and edit high-definition video. It also includes the ability to sync files between two computers.

- Windows Vista Ultimate combines all the features of the Vista Business and Home Premium editions--it's designed for corporate employees who often work on company projects from home.

- Windows Vista Home Basic is aimed at users who mainly read and send E-mail and surf the Web. It doesn't include the Tablet PC, Media Center, photography, or music software in Vista Home Premium.

- Windows Vista Starter will retail only in emerging markets such as India, Russia, Mexico, Brazil, Thailand, and Indonesia. It won't be available in the United States or Europe, and it runs only in 32-bit mode


Moderators may delete this - if this violates site norms.

asimba 03-27-2006 02:46 PM

Quote:

Windows Vista Enterprise, available to Microsoft's largest corporate customers, adds new BitLocker hard-drive encryption, a virtual PC program for running software written for other platforms, and a new subsystem for running Unix apps.
subsystem to run unix apps ????

This is the reason its getting delayed :)

lucky_dev36 03-27-2006 04:06 PM

You can upgrade BIOS, but you probably need Windows

raska 03-27-2006 05:50 PM

I won't install Windows Vista not even to play some PC games, which is the reason I still have Windows XP on my machine -- videogaming

you guys should check this article on The Inquirer: Vista gamers need 2GB plus of memory

who thinks Beta versions won't change too much from the sale-release? I do

fraz 04-01-2006 04:52 PM

It seems to me that Microsoft are once again going into the business of putting others out of business. Problem is that they get there one step behind everyone else. Their new firewall should have been their old one etc etc. All of these little security features or, lets call them what they are, applications funnily enough are already available from more expert organisations. I think I'd prefer to stick with an organisation that is in the business of developing firewalls or spyware removal tools or Web browsers rather than one that overstretches its resources trying to change the term Personal Computer to Microsoft Computer. I suspect Microsoft's new firewall will be where Zonealarm was 5 years ago.

I'm not saying I won't get Vista, I probably will but not if I once again lose those games I love so much and can't run on XP. Yes you guessed it, I'm another one who keeps a windows box for gaming. The day that linux offers the complete gaming solution is the day I have two linux boxes instead of one, but we all know that is some way off if developers keep ignoring us.

hferretluv 04-02-2006 03:28 PM

Windows Vista ..??..
 
Had a chance to look at windows vista. They didn't even bother to file off the serial numbers, so to speak. But it was buggy as all get out when I looked at a january beta.

Me? I'm sticking with Linux. Fedora, to be exact.

peter_89 04-03-2006 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fraz
I think I'd prefer to stick with an organisation that is in the business of developing firewalls or spyware removal tools or Web browsers rather than one that overstretches its resources trying to change the term Personal Computer to Microsoft Computer.

I'm glad they at least seem to be trying.
Remember, your average Windows user is not going to know about any special firewalls, how hacking actually works, or how to remove spyware, let alone even recognize it. I've spoken and worked with these people, they find installing things to take too tediously long. Trying to educate these people won't work. They just aren't interested. Therefore the maker of what actually controls these people's computers has a responsibility to enforce security.

Penguin of Wonder 04-03-2006 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peter_89
They just aren't interested. Therefore the maker of what actually controls these people's computers has a responsibility to enforce security.

Thats a good point. But I don't know if I can totally agree with your or not. After all, isn't most of Linux's security controls built in?? I think it more of a 50/50 split. The writer of the software should be just a worried about security as the user should. He wrote the code, and he should write it properly, but on the other hand the user should safe about what he downloads, installs, runs, etc.

peter_89 04-03-2006 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penguin of Wonder
Thats a good point. But I don't know if I can totally agree with your or not. After all, isn't most of Linux's security controls built in??

Yes, but Windows, by its very nature, is minimalistic. No, I'm not talking about the limited range of included apps, but rather about how security is fundamentally implemented in the kernel, registry, etc. *nix was FUNDAMENTALLY DESIGNED with security in the first place. Think about it: UNIX has always been an advanced network operating system for use in advanced environments. Linux takes after that. There's nothing wrong with how Windows is designed, it's just that it was designed with what the average computer user is going to need -- or not going to need, which in this case is advanced networking and security tools built in -- as when it WAS first being designed there was no threat of cracking from all around the world, only the cracking on private networks, which Windows was not meant for at the time. Microsoft kind of had to implement security features when they were needed -- therefore, there is no integration, and any "built-in" security features need to come from actual seperate programs. Let's be fair here, Windows does need to play catch-up to Linux when it comes to advanced security.

Penguin of Wonder 04-04-2006 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peter_89
Let's be fair here, Windows does need to play catch-up to Linux when it comes to advanced security.

I'll agree with that. Linux does have more built in security that is without a doubt true.

fraz 04-04-2006 02:13 PM

I trust linux security more though. It's been tried and tested for years

Penguin of Wonder 04-04-2006 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fraz
I trust linux security more though. It's been tried and tested for years

Not that I don't believe your or anything, but how much has Linux's security really been tested?
I saw recently on the news where a guy put up an Apple Server running Mac OSX as a test to see how well it would stand up against an open invatation. The guy that hacked it said he had complete user level privilages within half an hour. I know thats not Linux but OSX is another Unix based operating system. Has the strength of security that Linux provides really been tested?

fraz 04-05-2006 07:29 AM

At the end of the day it all depends on the user and how well the system has been set up. There are plenty of ways around any defences you just need to shut those off.
Plus I know its a bad thing to say, but the mere fact that there are so many out there who don't know what they are doing that they are easier targets takes the focus away from us. With windows being more commonly used by the home user it is more commonly targetted too.

Gethyn 04-05-2006 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penguin of Wonder
Not that I don't believe your or anything, but how much has Linux's security really been tested?
I saw recently on the news where a guy put up an Apple Server running Mac OSX as a test to see how well it would stand up against an open invatation. The guy that hacked it said he had complete user level privilages within half an hour. I know thats not Linux but OSX is another Unix based operating system. Has the strength of security that Linux provides really been tested?

This report on the Register might interest you.

Of course, security is very much dependent on how well set up the system is, as has already been pointed out.

Penguin of Wonder 04-05-2006 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gethyn
This report on the Register might interest you.

Of course, security is very much dependent on how well set up the system is, as has already been pointed out.

Thats a good website, thanks!

Penguin of Wonder 04-08-2006 03:24 PM

WhiteRaceUnited? Are you serious?

peter_89 04-08-2006 03:38 PM

I'm not sure. I am concerned though. I'll e-mail a mod to see what the policy is on offensive handles.

fraz 04-08-2006 04:49 PM

i didn't think rednecks knew how to use computers

KimVette 04-08-2006 05:50 PM

Ignore racists - they're generally attention whores and the best solution is to simply ignore them.

This goes for "civil rights activists" too. If people just tried to set an example themselves racism as a whole would be well behind us.

inventingsteel 04-09-2006 01:00 AM

I don't care how fancy it looks, how secure they claim it is, or how much faster. The fact still remains I will never pay those ridicoulous prices they ask, whether it it be from my wallet or my pride. Penguin Power!!!

Penguin of Wonder 04-09-2006 03:17 PM

Inventingsteel, that brings up a good question, has anyone heard any news as to how much Microsoft plans on charging for a copy of Vista? I'm assuming the different versions their pushing will cost different amounts.

crewblunts 04-10-2006 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peter_89
I'm glad they at least seem to be trying.
Remember, your average Windows user is not going to know about any special firewalls, how hacking actually works, or how to remove spyware, let alone even recognize it. I've spoken and worked with these people, they find installing things to take too tediously long. Trying to educate these people won't work. They just aren't interested. Therefore the maker of what actually controls these people's computers has a responsibility to enforce security.

I agree with you 100%. They may be behind but at least they are trying.

rkelsen 04-10-2006 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jproveaux
Some really creative individual decided to post this "really creative" post at arstechnica.com forums:

Quote:

Vista -> Beta until December .......
Linux -> Beta forever

But Win95, 98 & ME were in Beta their whole lives. As is XP. Deny it all you like, but the thing still crashes for me. Maybe not as much as earlier versions, but usually when it is most inconvenient, and for no apparent reason. Unfortunately, due to the use of some industry-specific software, I have to use the crap at work.

Anyhow, there'll never be another "Windows 95 moment" for Microsoft. People have learned that it's always "more of the same" from that particular company.

In all the excitement, a friend of mine waited until Midnight outside a computer shop on the eve of the release of Win95. Two hours after purchasing it, he had microwaved the floppy disks it came on and had reformatted his HD and was reinstalling DOS. An expensive lesson learned.
Quote:

Originally Posted by jproveaux
Linux scares people.

With good reason. It has been my desktop OS at home for 8 years now, and has proven to be rock solid.

jiml8 04-10-2006 08:58 PM

Quote:

I saw recently on the news where a guy put up an Apple Server running Mac OSX as a test to see how well it would stand up against an open invatation. The guy that hacked it said he had complete user level privilages within half an hour. I know thats not Linux but OSX is another Unix based operating system. Has the strength of security that Linux provides really been tested?
And the rest of the story...

The guy that hacked it was given shell access to begin with. Random bad guys trying to break in won't have shell access.

Penguin of Wonder 04-10-2006 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jiml8
And the rest of the story...

The guy that hacked it was given shell access to begin with. Random bad guys trying to break in won't have shell access.

If thats the truth thats one of the lamest comparison tests i've ever seen.


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