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Old 06-24-2015, 02:22 PM   #16
elamre
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The only thing i like linux for is development. To me it's pretty much a pain at any other job, and highly user unfriendly. Most of the people dont want to have to solve issues and have to use the terminal when something isnt going according to plan.
 
Old 06-24-2015, 06:34 PM   #17
dugan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elamre View Post
Most of the people dont want to have to solve issues and have to use the terminal when something isnt going according to plan.
Yes, it is better to not be able to solve issues, and to have to use such friendly things as the Registry Editor and the Event Viewer when something isn't going according to plan.

I love how comments like this imply that no-one ever has a problem on Windows.

Last edited by dugan; 06-24-2015 at 06:46 PM.
 
Old 06-25-2015, 03:43 PM   #18
orbea
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When you have problems with windows you usually just ignore them until it breaks your system, then you reformat. It teaches a lot of bad habits with diagnosing incredibly simple and easy *unix issues (Its really easy to spend a lot of effort trying to figure something out just to realize the solution was so simple you just overlooked it). Its not that windows users are inherently dumb, its just that they are given something that is not meant to be learned or fixed and this is all they know while the amount of choice offered with free software seems far more formidable than it really is. This situation is rather reminiscent of Plato's cave...
 
Old 08-05-2015, 06:59 PM   #19
bluemobile
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Quote:
If Linux is so great, why has it not replaced Windows, OS X and other closed-source operating systems completely?
Because when some of us ask a question, it was treated as if I already was suppose to know the answer.
But times now are getting desperate, still have xp, will not upgrade if I can avoid it, and as soon as the open source projects can convert all my macros from excel vba to something else without too much to learn about code and what not, then I think migration will multiply over night. In fact I think migration has probably begun

Google, for me has become history, replaced by another search engine, same with ad ridden yahoo. web browser for now is COMODO DRAGON.
See ? , some of us have other things to do toput food on the table other than be "under the bonnet" so to speak in program_code_land.
But, you guys have my support, I can only sit back and watch, hope things for us prospective migrants become easier to cross over 100 % and leave that propriety world as if my life depended on it.
So for me at least, Google and MS are on the most unwanted list.
And I support https://duckduckgo.com/ as my new found friends in search engines.

So that's what I got to say, bold, black n white in plain english.
 
Old 08-05-2015, 08:57 PM   #20
spradlig
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I take it that you're asking your question to spur discussion. I use both Windows and Linux. I'm no expert in either.

I'm trying to become less reliant on Windows because I dislike adapting to a new OS every few years. And of course, Windows isn't very customizable, it's not free, and the changes MS makes aren't always improvements. I've heard that Windows 10 will make it easier for MS to spy on me and steal me bandwidth if I'm not careful.

But let's be real here, Linux is much harder to use than Windows. There isn't even one "Linux": there's an exploding number of distros to choose from. Linux has been around for a few decades now, if I'm not mistaken, but it's still tricky to install, even for fairly tech-savvy people. And installing software on a Linux machine can be a bitch. For example, I've been working on trying to get a certain fairly popular open-source program on my Linux Mint laptop, off and on, for about 6 weeks now. I've talked to a friend who's really good with Linux about it, he's installed it on his machine and it works for him, and he's tried to help me with it, but with no success. I've posted questions about my problem on a social network, gotten a suggested fix, tried it, and it didn't work. I'd bet good money that I could install that program on a Windows PC in about 20 minutes, working fine, just by clicking on stuff.

People don't use Windows or Mac just because they're lazy, or stupid, or because Microsoft and Apple advertise a lot. As I think a previous respondent wrote, Linux users who say things like this are saying more about themselves than about Windows and Mac users.

Last edited by spradlig; 08-05-2015 at 09:07 PM.
 
Old 08-05-2015, 09:03 PM   #21
astrogeek
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Sigh... welcome to LQ.
 
Old 08-05-2015, 11:19 PM   #22
bluemobile
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Quote:
I take it that you're asking your question to spur discussion.
No, just raw feedback

Recently I've discovered other codes to now learn, so Excel VBA can have "adapters".
My VBA tasks are based on automation and calculations etc etc, which started a long time ago, with a simple, Record Macro, and from there it's become a "monster".
Now, the VBA may not progress, ( web query stuff) and to think it may phase out eventually
and this subscription 365 MS have got, well, no way am I going to put parts of my work, "in the clouds", nup, no way.
So, there are open source methods recently such as Python and Phantom, ( I know nothing much about except at a glance, looks OK, I think. kicked a tyre here and there, tried some tests, Good). A task was completed where Excel VBA ended. So there is "hope". But this will take more time and my project is still "proto type".
See, all this constant change, fair enough, we were never suppose to drive model T fords forever either. But there is no way I am going to allow the Googles and the MS's invade my doings, not that I have anything to hide, it's principle.
To now have MS force an update with their new stuff, sorry, but I am renewing my passport and getting on here with ALL my questions, so be it. It's desperation in a benign sense, not going going past win 7.1 after my XP finally is no longer able to communicate on the net the way my project requires it to.
That means, the web pages I need to query, will no longer soon accept IE8, and XP won't take any version of IE past IE8, cos excel uses IE for the query.
So that's enough for me to say, "games up with MS". All my OS's and Excel's up to 2010 are paid for, never had a problem with this issue, it's "work" related.

So I thank you guys with the Linux thing and open source concepts.

Quote:
astrogeek Sigh... welcome to LQ.
Thanks.

ps
I cannot learn from books, it's practical trial and error, then the book may make some sense there after.
So please, no RTFM's
:-)
 
Old 08-06-2015, 01:16 AM   #23
astrogeek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemobile View Post
...So that's enough for me to say, "games up with MS"...

So I thank you guys with the Linux thing and open source concepts.

ps
I cannot learn from books, it's practical trial and error, then the book may make some sense there after.
So please, no RTFM's
:-)
GNU/Linux is all about the FREEDOM to own your data and your processes and to use your hardware to best meet your needs. Linux is not Window$ so you may need to adapt some of your processes to express the same result differently, or by alternate paths - but in the end your data will have the same meaning and you will find that you own it from that point forward.

If that is what you seek, then you are on the right path and LQ is the right place to find others willing to help you make the change. Good luck!

The welcome was genuine, I hope that you can find a path forward for your data, and your projects, and have only pleasant surprises along the way!

The "sigh" was for this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by spradlig View Post
I'm trying to become less reliant on Windows because I dislike adapting to a new OS every few years. And of course, Windows isn't very customizable, it's not free, and the changes MS makes aren't always improvements. I've heard that Windows 10 will make it easier for MS to spy on me and steal me bandwidth if I'm not careful.

But let's be real here, Linux is much harder to use than Windows...
it's still tricky to install, even for fairly tech-savvy people...
And installing software on a Linux machine can be a bitch...
For example, I've been working on trying to get a certain fairly popular open-source program on my Linux Mint laptop, off and on, for about 6 weeks now...
I'd bet good money that I could install that program on a Windows PC in about 20 minutes, working fine, just by clicking on stuff.

People don't use Windows or Mac just because they're lazy, or stupid, or because Microsoft and Apple advertise a lot. As I think a previous respondent wrote, Linux users who say things like this are saying more about themselves than about Windows and Mac users.
So, in a nutshell, Window$ sucks, but it is still better than Linux! It is easier to user than Linux, which can be a bitch! You failed miserably installing some mystery program which others seem able to install, but it isn't your fault, it is somehow Linux's fault! You could do it on Window$ in 20 minutes just by clicky-clicky magic, but you haven't... Then you put words in the mouth's of Linux users, which you then turn around as an insult to them...

And all must be true just because you say so! I would dispute every point (except that you may indeed have failed for 6 weeks installing some software)... but what would be the point? If you want to hate Linux then that is what you will do, I have no desire to convert you.

Not really a good way to make new friends. You might find that you get better help if you take that chip off your shoulder and refrain from actually soiling the carpets. And please respect the views of others that differ with your own.

But, the welcome was still sincere, as was the sigh. Best of luck whatever path you choose.

Last edited by astrogeek; 08-06-2015 at 01:27 AM. Reason: Grammer, typos...
 
Old 08-06-2015, 04:27 AM   #24
Davdi
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I started playing with Linux back in the days of Ubuntu Dappy, and use Linux (Mint and PCLOS) as my preferred OS (XFCE and LXDE as they're light and easily tweakable), I still have a Windows 8.1 install, multi booting with PCLOS LXDE and Mint 17.1 for some non-Linux/non-Wine compatible stuff I need for work, but that's the only use I have for MS's finest? OS.
Oh, the Corporate laptop is also Win 8.1 and blue-screened five times in two days last week.

To respond to spradlig's rant; Linux is way more stable than Windows, and, with Libre Office and Firefox/Chromium is a more than adequate replacement for any proprietary OS.
When XP Suppoer ended last year, a 60-odd year old friend's Hard Disk died (Windows was on a recovery partition, and anyway I couldn't install an unsupported OS) So I installed Mint and she couldn't believe how much faster her old P4 box ran.

Just keep an open mind and remember, as Lucille Ball said: "The more things you do, the more you CAN do!").
 
Old 08-12-2015, 03:46 PM   #25
v4r3l0v
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LOL, when is The Year Of The Linux Desktop coming? How come it's never coming?
Because Linux desktop is beyond any chance of repair. Because of the non-existent support. Because it fails in ways so spectacular no other OS can match. Because "rtfm" and "Google is your best friend" don't count as support. And that's it as far as users getting support with their Linux install. Because your successful setup will be ruined by the next update that tottaly lacks both testing and documentation. Because of updates and upgrades that stopped being innovative and are only cosmetics.
When I boot into Linux, my wifi antenna is weaker and my video playback is laggy. It's still the same after at least 3 updates. I'll never rely on my Linux install as my main go-to for personal computing.
 
Old 08-12-2015, 03:49 PM   #26
v4r3l0v
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Oh and by the way, are we starting a "bash Windows 10" topic? There's plenty of material in Windows 10 to bash and it seems some patterns of Windows 10 development were borrowed straight from the Linux developers' handbook. Like lack of testing... among other things...
 
Old 08-12-2015, 04:12 PM   #27
273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by v4r3l0v View Post
LOL, when is The Year Of The Linux Desktop coming? How come it's never coming?
Because Linux desktop is beyond any chance of repair. Because of the non-existent support. Because it fails in ways so spectacular no other OS can match. Because "rtfm" and "Google is your best friend" don't count as support. And that's it as far as users getting support with their Linux install. Because your successful setup will be ruined by the next update that tottaly lacks both testing and documentation. Because of updates and upgrades that stopped being innovative and are only cosmetics.
When I boot into Linux, my wifi antenna is weaker and my video playback is laggy. It's still the same after at least 3 updates. I'll never rely on my Linux install as my main go-to for personal computing.
Where's this magical M$ support that's so good?
I am also amazed you have never had a Windows update that stops something from working properly.
I think you either have a short memory or haven't been using computers for very long.

As to your WiFi and video problems -- mystery hardware running a mystery Linux distro is a tough problem to diagnose but I'd guess the hardware manufacturers didn't make things easy to create a Linux driver. OK, not your fault and you could say it's not your problem either -- but that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with Linux.

By the way, if you do want to fix it (though I admit the WiFi may not be fixable) then you'll likely need to do something like install proprietary video card drivers just as you would under Windows. You might even need to install a different Linux distribution since the one you are using might have said in big letters on it's web page "do not install on X hardware" fro all we know.
 
Old 08-13-2015, 10:30 AM   #28
Captain Pinkeye
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 273 View Post
Where's this magical M$ support that's so good?
I am also amazed you have never had a Windows update that stops something from working properly.
I think you either have a short memory or haven't been using computers for very long.
I never had. And no, Win 98/XP/any_other_dead ten years ago experience really doesn't count nowadays.

But i remember openSUSE 12.2 didn't even have a proper video drivers for my laptop and used VESA, in 2009. So i guess it sucks and will suck until eternity, or something. Like with Windows, you know.
 
Old 08-13-2015, 01:22 PM   #29
273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Pinkeye View Post
I never had. And no, Win 98/XP/any_other_dead ten years ago experience really doesn't count nowadays.

But i remember openSUSE 12.2 didn't even have a proper video drivers for my laptop and used VESA, in 2009. So i guess it sucks and will suck until eternity, or something. Like with Windows, you know.
Microsoft is pretty well known for breaking things on update so I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader.
The WiFi problems and the like mentioned in the post have some merit as they're real problems for people regardless of the reasons for them. However, suggesting that M$ somehow has magical support and updates which don't break is just ignoring the facts.
 
Old 08-13-2015, 01:28 PM   #30
dugan
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A stock install of Windows has no network support, period. When I do a Windows install I always prepare by downloading the drivers for either the onboard ethernet or the wifi, keeping those drivers on a flash drive, and then installing the drivers after installing Windows.

I know that this is true at least as of Windows 7.
 
  


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