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Old 02-20-2006, 08:52 PM   #91
darkhatter
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if they make it easier to get stuff legally, then more people will do it
 
Old 02-21-2006, 10:18 AM   #92
wykthorr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruben2
Why is MS playing inspector? Why do they block things that they don't need to block? What do they win with it? Is there a law that forces them to do this? I guess not, because Linux don't has it, and as far as I know apple has it neither. And MS isn't in the music industry, so they don't have any reason at all to do this IMHO. Maybe they want to stop illegal activities, but they don't have any reason for it.

I understand that music companies, software developers, film makers try to protect their work. So I understand that MS will do the best it can to stop people copying their work. But that has nothing to do with stopping people to copy other software or music. There are software, music, and videos that are allowed to copy, but these won't work anymore because MS blocks almost everything that looks like it's illegal. So I'm lucky I can stick with Linux
Well if they help the film and music industry to prevent piracy the media producers help them retain their monopoly. It's a scratch my back and I'll scratch yours policy.
 
Old 05-03-2006, 11:26 AM   #93
richtimbo
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Requirements of Vista

I wonder how many people here have actually tested the Beta copy of Vista? I have many
machines, but I tested it on my main machine for a couple of weeks. It's nice, the
graphics are superb, and I did not have a problem running it. It came on a dvd, and
is a resource hog. I have 4 gig of ram on my machine, it used 983 meg without running
any other program except for those associated with the OS. Unfortunately, my main
machine is my gaming machine and runs an Intel Pentium-D 950 chip and 975 express
chipset.

I read where someone mentioned that Vista requires 256 mb and P3 600, I think that is
overly optimistic. Looking over the hardware requirements, it suggested 512 meg ram
and a modern processor. After reviewing Intel's website, they recommended an Intel
6xx, 8xx, or 9xx series processor and at least a 945 express chipset. How many people
tried to run XP with 128 meg ram (the minimum required)? I bet if they tried it with
512 meg ram, they would hear the all too familiar sound of files being cached on the
hard drive.

I buy and sell computer equipment for a living, so obtaining a 3.4 gig duo-core Intel
chip is pretty easy, but that only represents less than 1% of the pc market. Most of
the homes and businesses will not meet the minimum hardware specifications for Vista.
With the current economic conditions and the high price of fuel, I don't see many
people upgrading to Vista immediately. With the exception of the techies in the
marketplace that adopt early, I predict Vista will mainly appear on new machines
from Dell, HP, Sony, and the other major pc manufacturers. Most pc buyers buying
custom built machines may stick with XP for now. I still have people asking for
Windows 2000 and 98.

Someone was nice enough to send my shop a bunch of copies of Ubuntu 5.10 and a letter
promising more if I need it. Everytime I catch a techie walking through the door, I
ask them if they have tried Ubuntu. As much as I like Linux, the average home user
does not have the skill necessary to operate it. However, Linux has gotten more user
friendly over the years. Somehow, if we were to bridge the gap for the average home
user and help them understand Linux, there would be an increase in Linux users. And
Microsoft will start losing their monopoly. After all, it has been how many years
since the release of XP? Someone help me remember, how many times has the Linux
Kernel been revised since then? Now is the time to educate people on linux. Vista
comes in Jan 2007, and may appear in new mchines for Christmas. Unless Microsoft
postpones Vista until 2008....
 
Old 05-03-2006, 04:31 PM   #94
Dominique_71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by comptiger5000
i'll probably stay xp then, until there is a way to disable drm, and i dont care what m$ says
The problem with drm is not only windows. They can be implemented at the hardware level, as it is already the case with TV-DVD sets. And here, it is nothing to do as to buy non drm hardware, but you files with drm will not play on those hardware, so you have to first convert the files, or to remove the drm in the file.

Microsoft is only a company among others. The majors using it, and other. The best thing to do is to not buy (as money is the only thing they understand) their products if they have some kind of drm. For those companies, the drm is a mean to control the market and get the maximum of money from their consumers. I have never buy something on Itunes, because I cannot accept they policy that state at they can change unilaterally and at anytime my rights on the files I will buy. I can just not accept that. And they are using the drm to implement such function.

The initial plan of microsoft was to have a function to forbid a Vista-drm computer to exchange information with a non drm boxes. That mean at it is possible with this technology, among other things, to fully forbid all the non drm boxes to access the internet-drm servers.

The drm are not "Big brother is watching you", but "Big brother is fucking you in the ass!"
For me, a windows user is a kind of masochist. He like problems. And they are many. But I believe at, as with time Vista will replace the other windows versions, it will be many windows users that will try something else. But for that to append, we must not only boycott things as itune, but first of all, do political pressure on the etablissment so at it can exist a non-drm world, or at least at a product I buy is compatible with every kind of hardware, even non-drm hardware. In clear, if I buy a file, I want to be able to copy it to my car player, my mobil player, every player I can have, and do a backup of it if I want to. With Vista, all this will not be possible, or only with time with illegal programs.
 
Old 05-03-2006, 04:35 PM   #95
comptiger5000
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unfortunately, completely dumping windows isn't an option for me, so i'll have to find a drm workaround
 
Old 05-17-2006, 02:25 AM   #96
archer75
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Most of you don't seem to understand what DRM and what it means for Vista. Vista has no more DRM than Windows XP. The whole issue revolves around the playing of HD content. This is not a microsoft thing, it's a MPAA thing. And if you want to play the same content in OSX or Linux the same kind of DRM support will have to be built in there as well. Here is part of an article at extreme tech that may put it in perspective for you:


So what about the other DRM? Well, our computers are already chock full of DRM. Most Windows XP users have Media Player, so that's Windows Media DRM right there. Installed iTunes? You now have FairPlay DRM. Do you have a legal DVD playing codec installed? You've got the Content Scrambling System DRM installed, and probably Macrovision too. Product Activation? That already exists in Windows XP and Microsoft Office, and it's not nearly the headache the detractors make it out to be. We upgrade our home PCs all the time here at ET, and none of us has had a problem. I personally have never had trouble activating Windows XP; the worst that's happened was one time that I had to call Microsoft and get an activation code. I didn't even talk to a human being. I just entered in one alphanumeric code and the voice read back to me an activation code. DRM effectively exists on most store-bought games (console or PC), on Valve's Steam download service—you name it. Software to make sure you are supposed to be using that paid-for content is literally everywhere already.

So really, what's different in Vista? It all boils down to support for HD-DVD and Blu-ray, really. The AACS DRM used by both formats is supported in Vista. Both formats also require a secure digital video output path. An HD-DVD or Blu-ray movie can, optionally, say "if they don't have that protected digital video pathway via HDCP, reduce the resolution of the output." Some movies will have this and some won't, and I hear there's supposed to be some clear labeling on the box. Vista supports this feature as well. Many readers seemed to think the protected digital video path in Vista means they'll have to buy a new monitor. Nothing could be further from the truth. You can use Vista and all its features just fine with your existing monitor. The OS just supports this requirement of HD-DVD and Blu-ray. Any operating system that does not support HDCP in this way will always reduce the resolution of those HD-DVD or Blu-ray discs that choose to require it. In other words, expect similar DRM features to be added to operating systems such as OS X or for them to have crippled support for HD-DVD and Blu-ray, or no support at all.

But the key word here is support. Vista supports these DRM schemes, but does not require them. There is absolutely nothing in Vista that will require you to use content with DRM. There is nothing that will prevent you from running those applications that strip the DRM from your DVDs. Your ripped movies and MP3s and other DRM-less content will work just fine. Vista will not phone home to report your illegal file sharing activities and notify the MPAA and RIAA and phone your mom who won't say boy are you gonna get it when your father gets home.

The anti-DRM set needs to chill out a little bit with the conspiracy theories. I'm not a fan of DRM, either. As much as I love iTunes, I refuse to buy a single video or song from the iTunes Music Store, because I think Apple's DRM restrictions stink and that $.99 per song is a total rip-off, because it's the per-song equivalent of the existing CD prices, which are also a rip-off—but the economics of digital music distribution are about a hundred times better for the companies involved. I don't like DRM on HD-DVD and Blu-ray discs, and I'm not sure if I'm going to be much of a customer of those either (it depends on how other alternatives shake out). I'm not much of a fan of some of the more intrusive copy-protection schemes on PC games, and I've avoided buying some games strictly because the copy protection they use is too intrusive.

But that doesn't mean I have to hate Vista for having thorough DRM support, because they're not forcing me to use it. I will continue to vote with my dollars by not buying content whose DRM restrictions I don't agree with. I'm just not going to avoid buying Vista because of its DRM support any more than I avoid buying an iPod or any other digital music player that supports DRM (which is, you know, all of them).

So for now, I suggest we can all relax, and wait for Vista to actually be released before we pass final judgment on it. In the time between now and then, I'd encourage everyone to learn all the facts you can about Vista, and consider the sources where your information comes from (in other words, the comments on Slashdot may not be the best source of accurate Vista information). Arm yourself with information, try out Vista or visit some trusted review sites when it is released, and worry about whether or not to buy it then.
 
Old 05-17-2006, 03:01 PM   #97
Cogar
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Well Extreme Tech may not have had problems with Microsoft when upgrading hardware (which I assume triggered the OS and Microsoft Office to require reactivation), but ET is not an individual consumer. Microsoft treats individuals differently than corporate entities (in my opinion, at least). I know they treated me differently. Although the OS "reactivated" fine to my last hard drive upgrade (change from an 80GB drive to a 250GB drive), Office did not. Emails and phone calls made no difference. Microsoft support was sure their software should work even though it did not. The fact that it did not respond as it should became my problem. The issue remains "unresolved" at the time of this post.

The reality is that if anything in Vista "decides" you have done something wrong (whether you have or not), that could be the end of you being able to use Vista. Although Microsoft provides a polished and professional public image, behind closed doors they do not adhere to any apparent ethical constraints that do not serve their purpose. (This is not only my opinion. Spend some time on the net and you will find lots of documented cases of Microsoft misdeeds that became public knowledge.) Microsoft's questionable behavior could include (in my opinion) seeding forums like this with employees posing as Linux enthusiasts who just so happen to like Microsoft better.
 
Old 05-17-2006, 03:04 PM   #98
archer75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cogar

The reality is that if anything in Vista "decides" you have done something wrong (whether you have or not), that could be the end of you being able to use Vista.

There is nothing in Vista that would cause this.
 
Old 05-17-2006, 03:24 PM   #99
wykthorr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by archer75
There is nothing in Vista that would cause this.
How can you be so sure. Did you have a look at the code ? Oh I forgot, you can't. It can do whatever it wants without anybody knowing. No one at Microsoft would ever addmit it, but that's their job.

Last edited by wykthorr; 05-18-2006 at 10:12 AM.
 
Old 05-17-2006, 03:33 PM   #100
Cogar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by archer75
There is nothing in Vista that would cause this.
This makes an assumption that Vista's DRM implementation will accurately assess every situation (unlike XP) and that there will be no bugs in any related code (unlike XP). Like every other OS introduced by Microsoft over the last 15 years (with the possible exception of 98SE), my bet is that Vista will be buggy when it goes gold. Besides, Microsoft is doing a major code rewrite, which is the stated reason for the delay in Vista's release. I am skeptical that this rewrite can be done without introducing a disproportionate number of bugs in itself.
 
Old 05-17-2006, 03:33 PM   #101
Dominique_71
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At micro$oft introduced drm in Vista is nothing new. They was allready in the mediaplayer in win95!
The problem is not here. The problem is 1) it is no compatibility. 2) at some manufacturers use drm mean not at drm is a law!

When I was using winfuck, I gave done some copy of audio CD for my personnal use. I was able to read those files without problem with linux. A few years later, I copy those files on a new HDD, and I am not able to read those files anymore, even if I install the hdd on a winfuck box.

ET day: Both formats also require a secure digital video output path. An HD-DVD or Blu-ray movie can, optionally, say "if they don't have that protected digital video pathway via HDCP, reduce the resolution of the output." Some movies will have this and some won't, ...

You call that compatibility. You buy, rent, loan or copy a movie, and you dont even know if it will play correctly on your hardware! It is a shame at some people can accept a such practice!

And it is worse, because in the real wolrd, not the one from ET, you are not even sure at the movie will play! So, just don't buy it!
 
Old 05-17-2006, 04:42 PM   #102
archer75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wykthorr
How can you be so shoure. Did you have a look at the code ? Oh I forgot, you can't. It can do whatever it wants without anybody knowing. No one at Microsoft would ever addmit it, but that's their job.
How can you be so sure?
 
Old 05-17-2006, 04:43 PM   #103
archer75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cogar
This makes an assumption that Vista's DRM implementation will accurately assess every situation (unlike XP) and that there will be no bugs in any related code (unlike XP). Like every other OS introduced by Microsoft over the last 15 years (with the possible exception of 98SE), my bet is that Vista will be buggy when it goes gold. Besides, Microsoft is doing a major code rewrite, which is the stated reason for the delay in Vista's release. I am skeptical that this rewrite can be done without introducing a disproportionate number of bugs in itself.
They are not doing a rewrite. That has already been debunked.
 
Old 05-17-2006, 05:29 PM   #104
Cogar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by archer75
They are not doing a rewrite. That has already been debunked.
It's all a matter of semantics. Of course, Microsoft is putting things as positively as possible to help their image. PR is an important function in that company.

The explanation I heard is something like "they added people from their XBOX team to help with the media features of Vista." The reality is that there is enough code being changed to cause something like a six month delay. I call it a major code rewrite and Microsoft calls it a "restructure of the division."

Also remember that Microsoft's delay is centered on multimedia features. These are the ones associated with DRM--the point I made originally.
 
Old 05-18-2006, 03:28 PM   #105
Cogar
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Here is some more information regarding Microsoft and DRM. The cited article was mentioned in a post by LXer and is specifically related to Linux in China, but the additional information it provides is very enlightening.

Quote:
It's no secret that Microsoft is driving the demand for DRM. It takes only a brief glance at their XP Media Edition release of 2005 to see why they would invest in DRM. And "Trusted Computing"? What interest does Microsoft have in Trusted Computing?

A good place to start is on this page. While every proponent of Trusted Computing (TC)sells you the concept of TC, they fail to mention the downside. While Hardware manufacturers and Software makers sway you with arguments that TC will make your computing experience safer and more secure, they fail to mention the fact that they can monitor every mouse click and keystroke you make. Odd how that never seems to be a part of their disclosure, isn't it?

Ultimately, TC in concert with DRM will not only tell someone what you ordered online, where you visited online and who you spoke with online...it can act to limit your ability to do many things with your own computer. TC and DRM literally take your control away from you. The main reason we need to be frightened of these controls is insidious. It will, and in short order, strangle the life from the Open Source efforts. When all hardware is designed to meet the specifications of TC AND DRM, then it further dictates what software will operate upon it. Two forces will end up controlling the computer industry.
Full Article:
http://lobby4linux.com/modules/news/...php?storyid=94
 
  


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