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Old 11-24-2004, 11:11 AM   #31
jonr
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It bothers me to go into the public library, or the University one for that matter, and see dozens of terminals hooked up to a MS Windows network. This is financed by my tax money! I think it's as wrong as can be that taxpayers finance Microsoft. And how many complain? Most people never give it a thought, any more than they think about what they're doing when they use MS products at home. It really makes me feel physically sick.
 
Old 11-24-2004, 06:24 PM   #32
J.W.
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I agree with your general point, but I would say respectfully that the assertion that "taxpayers are financing Microsoft" because its products are being used in public facilities isn't really accurate. Govt agencies obviously need to buy goods in order to make them available to the public, and if you wish to argue that taxpayers are financing Microsoft on the basis of a library or university having purchased Microsoft products, then you would be obligated to make that same claim for *all* goods that were purchased from any manufacturer. In other words, you would also have to assert that the govt would be financing GE if they were using GE lightbulbs, or that it was financing Xerox if they were using Xerox copy machines, etc. The only way to avoid this situation would be to disallow any govt agency to purchase any product from any manufacturer, which just isn't realistic.

I do agree with you though that govt agencies should be promoting competition in addition to trying to save money, and with the typical Linux distro now providing functionally equivalent capabilities to Windows at basically zero cost, govt agencies should be actively investigating Linux-based alternatives. Just my 2 cents -- J.W.
 
Old 11-24-2004, 06:32 PM   #33
jonr
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Thank you, J.W.; I agree. I get carried away by my personal loathing for Microsoft quite often. Your points are all valid.
 
Old 11-24-2004, 07:12 PM   #34
J.W.
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Well, for what it's worth, suffice it to say that I've also done my fair share of grumbling about Microsoft, and most of those comments would probably be unsuitable for printing in a family newspaper.

The one thing that just drives me nuts is the automatic "help" that Microsoft Excel gives me by doing me the "favor" of dropping leading zeros from numbers. In my work, I regularly deal with zipcodes, and this "helpful feature" is impossible to turn off (at least to my knowledge) and therefore *always* does exactly what I don't want it to do. Arrgghh!!! -- J.W.
 
Old 11-24-2004, 07:22 PM   #35
jonr
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Quote:
Originally posted by J.W.


The one thing that just drives me nuts is the automatic "help" that Microsoft Excel gives me by doing me the "favor" of dropping leading zeros from numbers. In my work, I regularly deal with zipcodes, and this "helpful feature" is impossible to turn off (at least to my knowledge) and therefore *always* does exactly what I don't want it to do. Arrgghh!!! -- J.W.
It's really easy to set exactly the number format you want, or a different one for every part of a spreadsheet, in OpenOffice.org. I don't have Excel handy to experiment with, so I'm sorry I can't help out there. I'm very surprised it doesn't allow doing the same thing that's so easy to do in OOo.
 
Old 11-24-2004, 09:02 PM   #36
vharishankar
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That Economic times article was most illuminating. I think that the government has done two excellent things here:
  • Recognised the Openness of Linux as opposed to the proprietary nature of Microsoft (something that should be obvious to everyone, but one can never really say with Governments).
  • Recognised the IT skill level in India and acknowledged that support shouldn't be a problem even in case of Open-Source technologies.
 
Old 11-25-2004, 04:44 PM   #37
lordshipmayhem
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Jon:

Re: the dropping of zeros from the front of numbers:

Have you tried formatting the cell in Excel as "text"? I do this all the time in Version 2000 and it works for me.

Not that I use it from preference, just my employer loooves paying licence fees.
 
Old 11-26-2004, 05:32 PM   #38
AxeZ
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http://comment.zdnet.co.uk/other/0,3...9174385,00.htm

Ballmer and the revenge of the Jade penguin
Leader
ZDNet UK
November 19, 2004, 13:00 GMT

Tell us your opinion!
Microsoft's Steve Ballmer has been warning Asian governments that Linux may infringe software patents. James Cagney, move over. There's a new hard man in town...

He couldn't have been a better gangster if he'd worn spats and carried a violin case. Steve "Monkey Boy" Ballmer was out talking to the East Side gangs, and they'd better listen. They'd better listen good.



"Nice operating system you got here," he said, running his kidskin-gloved finger around the whorls of the carved jade penguin. "Very nice. Be a shame if anything happened to it."

The East Side leaders looked on impassively. They'd seen worse.

"News reaches me and my friends that you lot have been gettin' together. What happened? The Beijing Boys, the Tokyo Jokers and the Seoul Brothers youz like cats and dogs. Now you're makin' pally, workin' on this Linux crap. Co. Operating. Windows not good enough for you creeps?"

"Open source is more secure. It costs less. We can do more with it," said the smallest of the East Siders.

"Secure? Secure? I'll tell you what's secure. We are secure. We fix stuff. You don't know where that open-source dirt comes from..."

"It says the author name on each module, Steve," said the smallest leader, mildly.

Monkey Boy was getting overexcited again. "Don' give me that! Look, wi' us you know what you're getting. If you don'..."

"What, exactly?"

"Patents. You hear me? Someone's gonna get angry wi' you."

"You're going to send the boys round, Steve? We're your best friends."

"I didn't say that. Did I say that? I didn't say that. Look, you keep takin' the Windows and we'll see you right."

The smallest leader leaned forward. "Perhaps we will, Steve. Now, if you've got something you'd like to show us? Longhorn, perhaps?"

There was a ripping sound, as if someone had tried to slam an oriental paper screen door, and the East Siders were suddenly alone.

"Software patents," sighed the tallest leader. "Tell me, do we even have them over here?"

"No," said the smallest one. "But we are funding the American deficit. Nice economy they've got there..."

"... be a shame if anything happened to it," finished the tallest one.

A stray beam of sunlight caught the placid face of the jade penguin. For an instant, it might almost have been smiling.
 
Old 11-26-2004, 06:18 PM   #39
J.W.
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Quote:
Originally posted by lordshipmayhem
Re: the dropping of zeros from the front of numbers:

Have you tried formatting the cell in Excel as "text"? I do this all the time in Version 2000 and it works for me.
Yes, that solves the problem, but what I object to is that I am *required* to do this every single time after I open the file, plus the fact that Excel changes the display of my data without my permission. If a person's zip code is "07532", then I want to see "07532" when I look at the data, NOT "7532". In my work, this is no different than automatically dropping letters from a name, which is unacceptable. Sorry Microsoft, "07532" != "7532", just like "edmond, WA" != "Redmond, WA".

All I ask is that Microsoft allow the user the option of enabling or disabling the "drop leading zeroes" function. The fact that they (apparently) refuse to do this just drives me nuts. Sorry for the rant. -- J.W.
 
Old 11-30-2004, 12:53 AM   #40
Bruce Hill
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The Chinese don't really give a rip about Micro$loth or their threats.
In China, copyright means "the right to copy," and I know of no one
who actually pays for any version of Windoze, or any other software
for that matter. Well, they will pay about 12 cents USD for the copy
CD. And they seem to get everything before it's even released on
the market in the States. If China's entry into the WTO eventually
leads to Micro$loth being able to get the right to enforce their
software patents or whatever it's called, the Chinese will just use
Linux instead. Oh, happy day!
 
Old 11-30-2004, 01:05 AM   #41
bobinglis
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World War IV the rest of the world vs Bill Gates and co, The USA should take a good look at history, Empires have a regular habit of imploding!!!
 
Old 11-30-2004, 04:05 AM   #42
vharishankar
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chinaman
The Chinese don't really give a rip about Micro$loth or their threats.
In China, copyright means "the right to copy," and I know of no one
who actually pays for any version of Windoze, or any other software
for that matter. Well, they will pay about 12 cents USD for the copy
CD. And they seem to get everything before it's even released on
the market in the States. If China's entry into the WTO eventually
leads to Micro$loth being able to get the right to enforce their
software patents or whatever it's called, the Chinese will just use
Linux instead. Oh, happy day!
Copyright = The right to copy

I can understand that attitude. The same can be said for many Asian countries including India. The bullying attitude of global corporate giants just doesn't work over here. People care two hoots about patents and copyrights and the law enforcement is equally apathetic. If Microsoft want everybody to play by their rules, then they should change the rules to be accommodative and not arrogant and abrasive.
 
Old 11-30-2004, 11:14 AM   #43
towjamb
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Clearly a lot of animosity in this thread.

Ballmer's threats smack of desperation, a company on the precipice of change. Microsoft will not go away -- they could live off their mountain of cash for years -- but they will be forced to evolve.

If nothing else, Linux based operating systems have accomplished what no other corporation or entity could do -- present credible competition -- and will undoubtedly prosper, which is good for everyone. It must be a staggering revelation: Microsoft can no longer rely on the two cash cows, XP and Office, to maintain the monolith. They now have to truly innovate, successfully diversify, and perhaps trim the waste and fat. They no longer have the luxury to make huge blunders or bury litigation in money. They must learn to become responsible for their products, lawful in their conduct, and competitive in the marketplace in order to survive.

Ballmer can rant all he wants. I find it amusing because I have faith that business will discover the true benefits of Linux products as many individuals and governments have already. Linux and open source software ride on an unstoppable tidal wave of momentum and Microsoft must acknowledge this truth and react more accordingly.
 
Old 11-30-2004, 07:24 PM   #44
Bruce Hill
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Quote:
Originally posted by towjamb
They must learn to become responsible for their products, lawful in their conduct, and competitive in the marketplace in order to survive.
Don't go to sleep at the wheel, friend. Until Gates is broken,
he'll never respect others and conduct business legally. He
is out to conquer, not coexist. They'll not innovate, but rather,
buy or kill in court as they've done in the past.
 
Old 12-04-2004, 05:17 PM   #45
JerryMcFarts
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calm down.

I feel that this thread is wildly going out of control to slander.

Sure I hate Microsoft. I like there operating system personally but the company personally is a tragedy, they make things propietory and hold back the growth of the world as a whole. Linux is the future, I personally believe for a united front of this world. Microsoft is just putting up blockes and keeping it from being a global handshake to the other operating systems, more on domination then fitting together. and I think that is the worst thing.

What are the 228 violations that Linux has? MP3 support? we need to bind together figure out how to get those violations off of linux and find a different way, sure it will be hard, but as long as Microsoft is trying to keep it the way it wants, I am pretty sure that linux is in for a lawsuit or some legal alligations from them.

we need to look at what we have and fix it.

what are the 228 violations?


somelinks:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...ialinux24.html


Last edited by JerryMcFarts; 12-04-2004 at 05:20 PM.
 
  


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