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Old 10-29-2005, 10:58 PM   #16
gong
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yeah, OpenOffice is probably the worst piece of software I have used in my life.
 
Old 11-28-2005, 11:45 AM   #17
Chris Owen
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Quote:
Originally posted by Charred
I never will understand why MS insists on tying all of its products together so tightly
The opinion I've heard on that subject is that it strengthens Windows lock-in. Windows sales makes up the bulk of MS revenue. So you want to keep everyone using Windows. Most other MS software (but NOT Office, I think) could be considered loss-leaders for Windows.

I'm also inclined to think that some of this stems from MS's peculiar mentality when dealing with competition. In other industries, competition just is; you can smear competitiors, you can try to form protective alliances with other companies, or you can even go for a strategic alliance with the competitor. You might even try (SHOCK!) providing a better/cheaper product or service. If you're MS, you just destroy them.

Microsoft seems to prefer winning not through superior play, but buying the other team, getting them kicked out of the league, or buying the league itself.
 
Old 11-28-2005, 04:22 PM   #18
raska
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chris Owen
...Microsoft seems to prefer winning not through superior play, but buying the other team, getting them kicked out of the league, or buying the league itself.
LOL yeap, that just reminded me this article

Quote:
Microsoft has been compared to the Borg Collective more than once. Indeed, you don't have to be a hard-core Star Trek fan to notice the similarity between Microsoft and the Borg. Microsoft's marketing methods have always shown a certain hunger for power, but lately an undisguised megalomania has set in.
"WE ARE MICROSOFT. LOWER YOUR FIREWALLS AND SURRENDER. WE WILL ADD YOUR TECHNOLOGICAL DISTINCTIVENESS TO OUR OWN. YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE."
 
Old 11-29-2005, 05:43 PM   #19
Charred
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chris Owen
The opinion I've heard on that subject is that it strengthens Windows lock-in. Windows sales makes up the bulk of MS revenue. So you want to keep everyone using Windows. Most other MS software (but NOT Office, I think) could be considered loss-leaders for Windows.

I'm also inclined to think that some of this stems from MS's peculiar mentality when dealing with competition. In other industries, competition just is; you can smear competitiors, you can try to form protective alliances with other companies, or you can even go for a strategic alliance with the competitor. You might even try (SHOCK!) providing a better/cheaper product or service. If you're MS, you just destroy them.

Microsoft seems to prefer winning not through superior play, but buying the other team, getting them kicked out of the league, or buying the league itself.
At first blush, it may appear to be in MS's best interests for them to bind their software as tight to their kernel as they can. The NT kernel (let's call it "Krufty" for short) has all sorts of little goodies built in that MS software uses to increase things like program response, file I/O, and so forth, that non-MS programs won't be able to take advantage of because their programmers aren't aware those loopholes exist, as they're hidden deep in the bowels of Krufty's proprietary code (I'm not a programmer, but I would imagine that these little code goodies are responsible for many of the holes in Windows' security scheme). This makes it harder to compete with MS on their turf--our friend Krufty. As far as this goes, you are correct.

But this operates on the presupposition that Krufty is the kernel being used, which is not the case here; we're using the Linux kernel.

If MS had been thinking of what was good for MS Office, they would have ported Office to the Linux kernel a long time ago, and released it for sale the instant Linux appeared to offer any kind of competition to Windows, especially in view of the fact that the Linux kernel is open source.

But they didn't. They're so intent on trying to keep Linux from competing with Krufty the Kernel that they're missing out on hundreds of thousands, if not millions, in licensing fees, as well as the chance to completely dominate the Office Software market, independant of the success or failure of their efforts to destroy Linux.

Their pride has lead their killer instinct astray.

Last edited by Charred; 11-29-2005 at 05:48 PM.
 
Old 11-29-2005, 08:10 PM   #20
KimVette
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I posted something on /. the other day that still makes me chuckle when I re-read it, and it's related to the topic at hand. I believe that Microsoft is in the third stage of accepting the death of their monopoly. Check it out:

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=169359&cid=14117183

I think my reasoning is sound.
 
Old 11-29-2005, 08:23 PM   #21
Charred
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Hehehe!

Nice. I hadn't thought of that!
 
Old 11-29-2005, 08:27 PM   #22
slackhack
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Quote:
Originally posted by KimVette
I posted something on /. the other day that still makes me chuckle when I re-read it, and it's related to the topic at hand. I believe that Microsoft is in the third stage of accepting the death of their monopoly. Check it out:

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=169359&cid=14117183

I think my reasoning is sound.
lol, that's funny. and if they ever do get to the "acceptance" stage, it won't matter if they die or not.
 
Old 11-30-2005, 10:25 AM   #23
raska
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Quote:
Originally posted by KimVette
I posted something on /. the other day that still makes me chuckle when I re-read it, and it's related to the topic at hand. I believe that Microsoft is in the third stage of accepting the death of their monopoly. Check it out:

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=169359&cid=14117183

I think my reasoning is sound.
that was just Hilarious!!!! I've been laughing like if there were no tomorrow LOL

nice
 
Old 12-01-2005, 04:50 AM   #24
Diagmato
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Having Microsoft Office on linux would be beneficial - especially to college/university students.

First of all, something basic. Document layout. I opened a word document in OOo's writer, and the layout was wrong. It seemed to take up slightly more lines than Ms Word.

Spreadsheets arent bad, but I just cannot get the graphs as good as on Ms Excel.

Access databases. I have to rely on the time in college for one lesson because I cannot use Access on linux - not even through crossover office. It just wont work.

VBA. Another no-go zone, which causes another lesson to not be possible at home.

I have Ms Office installed through crossover office - word and excel work fine. Other package areas dont.

This makes it a pain to recommend linux to people - at least just to try. As soon as work needs to be done at home, a panic for time comes in, and the idea of reading through a tutorial and ending up in "dependancy hell" is the most common "put off-er" ive seen for people trying linux.
 
Old 12-06-2005, 09:18 PM   #25
xanas3712
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It's almost dual licensed now, as I don't know many regular people who don't "obtain" it if they didn't get it with their computer.

(Practically, obviously this is not something they support... or is it? :P, one must wonder with the absolute failure of their activation schemes and even their windows validation tool.)

Last edited by xanas3712; 12-06-2005 at 09:19 PM.
 
Old 12-09-2005, 02:41 AM   #26
timbuck
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Quote:
But they didn't. They're so intent on trying to keep Linux from competing with Krufty the Kernel that they're missing out on hundreds of thousands, if not millions, in licensing fees, as well as the chance to completely dominate the Office Software market, independant of the success or failure of their efforts to destroy Linux.
I'm thinking why fire the client you never hired. I dont know anyone using Linux as a workstation os that pays for any of the software that they use.
We just replaced a Linux server for a client with Microsoft products as required by the client to meet their objectives. There is easily 10k of software on that machine. The box it replaced had $200 software tops. Office for Linux? I see no reason they would waste the resources eventually it will get cloned anyway why should MS spend money on that when instead they can work on what is to be and continue to provide challenge and education to the cloners while making a generous profit.

Last edited by timbuck; 12-09-2005 at 02:43 AM.
 
Old 12-09-2005, 09:32 AM   #27
AnanthaP
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Kim, while it is known that M$Office is faster, I thought OO 2 came close. What version of OO ? are you on? What about the other features? SaveAs pdf for one.

End
 
Old 12-09-2005, 11:00 AM   #28
Charred
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Happy Birthday, AnanthaP!

Quote:
Originally Posted by timbuck
I'm thinking why fire the client you never hired. I dont know anyone using Linux as a workstation os that pays for any of the software that they use.
We just replaced a Linux server for a client with Microsoft products as required by the client to meet their objectives. There is easily 10k of software on that machine. The box it replaced had $200 software tops. Office for Linux? I see no reason they would waste the resources eventually it will get cloned anyway why should MS spend money on that when instead they can work on what is to be and continue to provide challenge and education to the cloners while making a generous profit.
There are 2 ways of thinking about this: MS Windows and MS Office are separate entities that happen to be released by the same company, or MS Office is just a giant plugin app for Windows. One of these viewpoints allows more market flexibility than the other.

Guess which?

IMO, having a "pet" OS has caused MS to lose sight of the fact that Office should be treated as a going concern in its own right, rather than a mere extension to Windows.

It would not cost MS much to port Office to Linux because they've already ported it to OSX. They just don't want to, because releasing Office for Linux would make the Windows side of the company appear more worried about Linux than they're willing to admit.

MS has taken the stance that what's good for Windows is what's good for ALL of MS, and therefore their public face is going to be saying that releasing Office for Linux is a waste of time because they intend to squash Linux like a bug.

This is what's called stepping over a dollar to pick up a dime.

I know a number of people who would be more than happy to buy Office for Linux, as it would enable them to more easily ditch Windows at work or at home.

Saying "Why bother because it's just going to get cloned anyway," is silly. In business, you make profit where (and when) there's profit to be made. Software is only worth what people are willing to pay for it, and if your competitors are all trying to play catch-up with your products, lots of people are going to be willing to pay for your products.
 
Old 12-09-2005, 06:47 PM   #29
timbuck
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Well those are good points. My opinion is based only on my little corner of the world and what I see, which is certainly far from all inclusive. As i said from personal experience I just do not know any linux ops (developers or surfers) that purchase any software unless it is for a server service thats open to the public. Perhaps thats not the norm overall but I have no indication of it. And certainly you are correct about the quality of product. I recall when wordperfect ruled the business desktops for word processing and word was a pipe dream. When the battle ensued it was clear Word perfect lost becuase their first iteration of windows based software was unbearably horrible.

On the upswing consider this. Microsoft, in opening the Dot net platform is carving the path to a truly portable development platform. So while console developers are busy coding from the bottom up. Ms is steadily engineering from the top down. When those two communities meet in the middle (something already in progress for the dot net cloners) It will not be a battle at all but rather a blending. So If MS were trying to destroy anything it would be the Dot net cloners.

Is there any sign of that occurring? If there is then I would have to frown on it but I really dont know the facts on that matter.

Last edited by timbuck; 12-09-2005 at 06:49 PM.
 
Old 12-12-2005, 08:21 AM   #30
sundialsvcs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charred
If MS had been thinking of what was good for MS Office, they would have ported Office to the Linux kernel a long time ago, and released it for sale the instant Linux appeared to offer any kind of competition to Windows, especially in view of the fact that the Linux kernel is open source.

But they didn't. They're so intent on trying to keep Linux from competing with Krufty the Kernel that they're missing out on hundreds of thousands, if not millions, in licensing fees, as well as the chance to completely dominate the Office Software market, independant of the success or failure of their efforts to destroy Linux.

Their pride has lead their killer instinct astray.
Could not have said it better. I've always felt a little sorry for the Office Products Division, because even though they've brought in a pot of money and they've accomplished such difficult things as bringing Office/Mac and Office/Windows together into one code base, they have never been allowed to develop their offerings to their full potential. They're the "poor stepchild" of the Operating Systems Division... and in that respect, Microsoft's directors are (imho) dead wrong. You should not leave money on the table anywhere, period.

We know that within the Office source-code there is plenty of support for one Unix-style environment; there is very little if any technical reason why there should not be a vibrant Linux offering as well. And there's no doubt in my mind that there would be strong customer demand for it .. enough to make the effort worthwhile.

"Lock in," as you say, is a futile strategy in the world of technology. It's usually followed by "squirm out." Microsoft should be permitting its various divisions to operate independently. It's exactly the same lesson that (much-larger) IBM Corporation learned .. as detailed in books like Who Says Elephants Can't Dance? (by former IBM CEO Lou Gertsner).
 
  


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