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Old 07-01-2005, 01:08 PM   #1
everal
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Microsoft's Google Earth. Don't you fell betraied?


Google is launching the Google Earth service, where you can (could) get satellite images from all over the planet; but look at this from the FAQ:

Quote:
5. Will my computer be able to run Google Earth?

Google Earth takes advantage of the 3D graphics capabilities standard on most PCs. If you are using Google Earth on an older machine, or a notebook computer that does not have 3D graphics capabilities, you may not be able to run the application. We currently do not offer a Macintosh version of Google Earth.

from: http://earth.google.com/faq.html
Let's see what we can get from that text:

1- PCs and Window are the same; you don't even need to mention the Windows Word.

2- But if by any chance you can't use it, maybe it is because you have some old hardware.

3- And if there is any other option, that would be Macintosh. And they are clear : it won't work.

4- Linux doesn't even exists to be denied.

That would be OK from any Microsoft paper, but it is SO BAD to see that coming from Google.

How many people has google's logo in their sites, from the time when they were nothing, and now we see this happening...

They could:

1- Offer the service on-line, so it won't depend on the OS;

2- Open the code, so people would DO it for them, by free, and it would even work better, even the version for the other system.

Some time ago this kind of thing was just like a marketing war... but now it is close to become discrimination.

A Company can of course choose not to spend money with minorities, but today, in Computerland, they don't necessarily need to, like in this case.

The feel is something like: 'Someone is paying them to DO NOT let me use the service and , what is ten times worse, THEY ARE ACCEPTING!!!'

They think they are winning more, when they close the doors to millions of Linuxers.

And yes, we do are millions, and we should show them what we think about that kind of actitude.

What do you think about it?
 
Old 07-06-2005, 06:41 PM   #2
KimVette
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Google is just as evil as Microsoft - -they're just not large enough for people to take note of it. Yet.
 
Old 07-06-2005, 08:00 PM   #3
J.W.
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I think Google is simply allocating its resources to make its Earth project available to the largest user base (ie, Windows users) first. If you are selling something (as Google is) it's only logical to spend the bulk of your budget (time, money, and resources) on the largest audience. To use an analogy - suppose you developed a product that prevented tires from going flat. Would you market your product to bicycle owners first, or unicycle owners first? Granted, it's a pretty bad analogy, but the point is that it makes sense to develop a product that serves 90% of the audience before developing a product that serves single digit percentages of the audience. (Believe me, I wish Linux had a 50%+ market share, but we're just not there yet)

Overall, Google is a for-profit company, and therefore will do whatever is necesary in order to return maximum value to its shareholders. If that means Linux takes a back seat, so be it.

Not that I'm happy about it. But I understand it -- J.W.
 
Old 07-06-2005, 10:15 PM   #4
everal
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hehehe :-)

Sorry...

1- but that is like to say that if they get my blood also, no problem... they are just working and making money...

2- We can find a lot of problems with google: just look for it in eff.org (Electronic Frontier Foundation)

We have problems with Gmail, orkut, usenet, cookies, " Google's endless data retention policy." and etc.

3- Most of all: whem you say that you are not considering the difference between the regular windows users, like people in offices, millions of them, who barely knows how to send an e-mail, and linux users, some of us btw 'helped' google creating their directories and etc during years.

4- And one more: if you read my post, you will see that I said that if they open the code, they probably would have ot working for linux and for windows, and better.

But you said: "... it's only logical to spend the bulk of your budget (time, money, and resources)..."

Isn't it more logical to have it spending LESS and with better quality?

Well, by myself, I do not send mail to gmail accounts, do not open gmail e-mails, do not accept google cookies and do not use orkut.
 
Old 07-07-2005, 04:24 AM   #5
Diagmato
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Google only means one thing to me - search .

I thought google do use Linux?

http://www.internetweek.com/lead/lead060100.htm

Perhaps they are releasing it to Windows first, and then "considering" a Linux version. Just wish companies that say that would actually get it done.
 
Old 07-07-2005, 09:58 AM   #6
sundialsvcs
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Obviously it will not be long before the Linux community has developed compatible software... if it does not already exist somewhere. Both the Macintosh and the Linux communities are "easy" because both are fundamentally "Unix."

There do seem to be a lot of services that Google is offering lately which erroneously assume that the target user is running "Internet Explorer as an Administrator on a Windows-XP box." This may be a plausible initial target to shoot for in one's alpha product-rollout, but even Windows users are wising-up very fast. They're turning off Active Scripting, setting up non-administrative accounts for themselves, and using browsers like Firefox. This because they're tired of having their systems hijacked. It is actually harder than ever before to launch a web-site that "every potential customer" can use.
 
Old 07-08-2005, 11:58 AM   #7
hackerarchangel
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Quote:
Originally posted by sundialsvcs
Obviously it will not be long before the Linux community has developed compatible software... if it does not already exist somewhere. Both the Macintosh and the Linux communities are "easy" because both are fundamentally "Unix."

There do seem to be a lot of services that Google is offering lately which erroneously assume that the target user is running "Internet Explorer as an Administrator on a Windows-XP box." This may be a plausible initial target to shoot for in one's alpha product-rollout, but even Windows users are wising-up very fast. They're turning off Active Scripting, setting up non-administrative accounts for themselves, and using browsers like Firefox. This because they're tired of having their systems hijacked. It is actually harder than ever before to launch a web-site that "every potential customer" can use.

Sundial has a point. I keep saying that Microsoft has a harder time keeping up with the bug fixes than Linux users because:

A: More people are willing to view the code of Linux and fix it.
B: It is much much harder to hack Linux or send a virus do to the vast amounts of variations in the code. Heck, my Linux isn't the same as the original cpy of the one I downloaded.
C: Microsoft is slowly declining in popularity. More people are seeing alternatives to Windows based software.
D: MAC OS is now going to the Intel architecture. It's a happy three ring circus. Cue the elephants!
 
Old 07-08-2005, 01:35 PM   #8
Baddox
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Re: Microsoft's Google Earth. Don't you fell betraied?

Supposed computer "geeks" need to get over their "ever big technology company is evil" policy. Sure, Linux is much better, but any computer "geek" who has a computer-related job probably capitalizes from average Joe Windows users not knowing how to use their computers. Microsoft has some pretty bad policies, no doubt, but their popularity alone should not be criticized, it's the ultimate goal of any software company. And now you're cutting into Google, a company I've had very few complaints about. Your criticism of Google Earth's "requirements" is unfounded:

Quote:
Originally posted by everal

1- PCs and Window are the same; you don't even need to mention the Windows Word.
PC's and Windows aren't the same, but "most PC's" and "Windows" are. Whether or not you like it, it's true.

Quote:
2- But if by any chance you can't use it, maybe it is because you have some old hardware.
Nothing wrong with this, it's impossible to create a useful 3d program that will work on Pentium Pro's. Again, this is not their fault.

Quote:
3- And if there is any other option, that would be Macintosh. And they are clear : it won't work.
Assumedly, the second most-used PC operating system is Macintosh, and they're clear it won't work because it won't. What's the big deal? Welcome to a little something called most software--this isn't an "evil" Google just cooked up.

Quote:
4- Linux doesn't even exists to be denied.
Neither does BeOS, Unix, Solaris, PalmOS, or even Microsoft's own Windows CE! If it's not mentioned, we can assume it's not supported.

...

Quote:
1- Offer the service on-line, so it won't depend on the OS;
It's called Google Maps. It doesn't have all the features of Google Earth, but it's still very nice and completely Linux-friendly (with Firefox and probably others).

Quote:
2- Open the code, so people would DO it for them, by free, and it would even work better, even the version for the other system.
They don't want other people DOING it for them, and remember that this is just a free version of a commercial piece of software. Other posts are correct to remind that Google is a public company that wants to make money.

Quote:
Some time ago this kind of thing was just like a marketing war... but now it is close to become discrimination.
There are no laws or obligations requiring Google or any company to not discriminate against users of a certain operating system. We Linux users need to accept the fact that our OS is in the minority, and moreover embrace it. The day Linux owns 90% of the market share and Microsoft and everything else is sitting in 10% is probably the day Linux is what Microsoft is now: relatively closed, buggy, attack-prone, and the bane of computer hobbyists everywhere.

Quote:
A Company can of course choose not to spend money with minorities, but today, in Computerland, they don't necessarily need to, like in this case.

The feel is something like: 'Someone is paying them to DO NOT let me use the service and , what is ten times worse, THEY ARE ACCEPTING!!!'
You're seriously suggesting Google is being payed or enticed to NOT release Google Earth for Linux? That's just preposterous, and for all you know they eventually will, but it's perfectly natural to release it for Windows first. Haha, perhaps they value us Linux users after all, and are using the huge Windows user base to do free beta testing for the Linux version!

Quote:
They think they are winning more, when they close the doors to millions of Linuxers.
No, but they're surely "winning" more from Windows users than they are from Linux users, it's a simple fact.

Quote:
And yes, we do are millions, and we should show them what we think about that kind of actitude.
I reiterate: while we are perhaps millions, Windows users are millions more. I don't expect special treatment as a Linux user, and neither should you.

In conclusion, the only real possible complaint I can glean from Google Earth is not one you mentioned. I'm referring to previous paying Keyhole users who suddenly find the software they've been paying good money for has been essentially rebranded and released for free. But while I don't know, I would guess that they can simply cancel their subscription and download Google Earth, or perhaps their software has extra features added that's exclusive to their payed version.

Linux users need to stop expecting special treatment for being in the more "elite" computer community. They should stop considering evil toward Linux users as "evil," but evil toward Microsoft and Windows users (such as widespread worms and DoS attacks) as "getting what they deserve". Evil is evil regardless of the victim.
 
Old 07-11-2005, 03:25 PM   #9
ctkroeker
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Has anyone even tried google earth? It's the coolest thing since they invented the map. Maybe wine would run it? Can someone port this program to Linux fast?!
 
Old 07-11-2005, 03:40 PM   #10
Donboy
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Google acquired Keyhole 2 LT in October of 2004 and renamed it to "Google Earth" so it's not like Google is trying to piss on Linux users. They are just working with what they have. Some of you are writing your posts as if Google developed this program themselves and decided not to accomodate Linux users. My impression is more like they just took the code and slapped their label on it. In that regard, yes, they are similar to Microsoft. And yes, it doesn't help that they have all these example graphics on their FAQ depicting the Windows OS.
 
Old 07-12-2005, 04:00 PM   #11
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I'm pretty sure they did some fairly major redesigning, not just relabelling after they acquired Keyhole. And yes, I have tried the program and I agree it's awesome. NASA World Wind is similar, if not better, and open source, you guys should check it out too. It's got many more map sets, including an older 1m black and white satellite photo set and some interesting animations of thing like hurricanes, wildfires, etc. What I can't quite figure out is why Google Earth is 10 meg and World Wind is something like 300 meg, because they both get all content from the net anyway.
 
Old 07-12-2005, 04:12 PM   #12
ctkroeker
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From the release notes:

Quote:
New Features
------------

- Geocoder, Local Search, and Driving Directions are now integrated
with Google's search engine. The last 10 search entries are remembered.

- 3D buildings are currently available in 38 US cities, try San Francisco.

- You can "drive to" and "drive from" any placemark, icon, or MyPlaces
entry using the right-click context menu.

- Search Results and MyPlaces now have a "snippet view," showing the first
two lines of the description.

- Streaming performance (updating data via the network) should be
greatly improved. Server infrastructure at Google helps, but the software
has also changed to take advantage of it.

- A new filetype, KMZ, is available. KMZ files are KML files that have been
zipped up along with their related files, such as image overlays. This means
that you can share image overlays and custom icons without having to publish
the files on an external web server or mail them as an attachment with the KML.

- More flexible tour mode: touring a line (e.g., the route
from driving directions) or touring a folder is now possible.
Folder tours allow items to be checkboxed visible, but not be
included in the tour path by limiting tour points to only
one folder (checked or not).

- The description now appears in an on-screen balloon instead of in the side
window.

- Web page results from search and URLs embedded in description can now be
viewed in an embedded web browser (or, via options/preferences,
in an external browser)

- Rolling over an icon highlights the label.

- Double-click in the 3D view to point-n-zoom: The old single-click
point-n-zoom mode has been moved to the options/preferences panel,
but double-click on the earth and you will zoom in to that point.

- The transparency slider now appears only when an image overlay is
selected or when a folder of polygons is selected.

- Improved rendering performance.

- A new Latitude/Longitude grid is available.

- The installer now has option in to specify the install directory,
and the location for the cache.dat file and myplaces.kml.

- The "High Res Places" and "World Places" menus have been removed
and a small sight-seeing list has moved to the default_myplaces.kml
file. As you will see, tracking the high-resolution places in
new Google Earth data has gone beyond the list stage.

- New mouse controls for tilt and rotate. These controls are accessed
by pressing down on the scroll wheel (or middle mouse button). To tilt
the camera, hold the scroll wheel down while moving the mouse up and down.
To rotate the camera, hold the scroll wheel down while moving the mouse
left and right. To rotate without tilting (e.g. to do a 360 degree
rotation), hold the shift key and scroll wheel down while moving the
mouse in a circular motion around the center of the screen.

- a new/old G-force mode has been added to navigation.
Use leftmouse/rightmouse for acceleration/deceleration. Set it in
Tools/Options/Control or use ctrl-G, ctrl-T, and ctrl-Z to switch
between navigation modes.

- Google Earth can now be installed without administrative privileges (Plus only).

- GPS data can now be viewed in Google Earth, either directly input from
Garmin/Magellan devices (including Garmin USB interface), or by using
.gpx or .loc file loading.

- Draw Path and Draw Polygon are now available, including extruded
and at-altitude items.

- you can now select lines and polygons. Use ctrl+leftclick to
select/get-balloon-description. Use ctrl+rightclick to get
the context menu (which will allow editing).

- Style Templates can now be applied to "Import..." data and existing KML
folders.

- You can perform batch geocoding of street addresses using the Import menu item
to import a .csv (comma-separated values) file

- Significant speed improvements in High-resolution Printing and Movie
Making.

- Icons and lines can now be displayed at altitude.
Icons at altitude and have a "stem" connecting them to the ground.

- Polygons can be extruded or displayed at altitude.

- GIFs (non-animated) can be used as overlays and icons.

- ICO (.ico) files can used as icons.

- Folder open-state is now remembered.

- layer-enables (eg: terrain, lodging, earthquakes) are remembered
between runs of the software.

- Measure mode now optionally disables mouse navigation to simplify
the task.

- IMG SRC can now be used in the Description field and the image can
be either http:// (remote) or C:\ (local). Local images will be included
when you send item as .kmz.

- Movies can be saved as sequences of image files.

- Movie Maker now has a 25/50 Frames-per-second (fps) option.

- KML additions/changes:
<KML> the KML parent tag has been added to allow versioning
of KML. It will prevent old clients from loading new KML.

<open> tag for remembering open state of folders

<LookAt>, a replacement for the <View> that handles terrain
correctly. Keyhole 2.2's <View> will continue to load
and render correctly in 3.0, but is deprecated

{Style changes}, styles have been rewritten to make attributes
orthogonal between icon, line, and polygons. Old 2.2 styles
are deprecated but will continue to work in this release.

<ADDRESS>, allows KML to specify location by address instead of
lat/long. When the Google Earth client loads this KML, it will try
to geocode the item. Failed items will be geocoded to [0,0] to
avoid hitting the geocoder on subsequent loads.

<SNIPPET>, allows the snippet-view text to be different than the
description. Useful for supplying an abbreviated description.

{screen space overlays}, the syntax has changed and some 2.2
overlays may not work. Because these were a hidden feature,
backwards compatibility was not handled.
 
Old 07-13-2005, 04:52 AM   #13
andrecaldas
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Unhappy Google does not acknowlege GNU/Linux

I see that many posters are replying things like:
Quote:
You cannot complain they did not develop a GNU/Linux version.
Whether I can complain or not is a different problem. What the original poster is saying is that google simply IGNORED the sole existence of something different from Windows or Macintosh.

Not that it would not have made me mad either, but they could have said:
Quote:
We do not offer a version of Google Earth for the GNU/Linux.
 
Old 07-13-2005, 07:33 PM   #14
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What about the good things google has done to promote the open-source community? Has anybody ever heard of "Google Summer of Code"? They are paying students $4500 to write open source software for approved open source organizations. The organizations are acting as mentors for the students and the 200 accepted coders are getting fat paychecks to learn and write open source code for the summer. It's not like they are trying to piss on linux users, it's business. Quit looking for reasons to deprecate companies when you haven't looked into why you should promote them.
 
Old 07-14-2005, 01:43 PM   #15
logosys
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Quote:
Originally posted by dns21
What about the good things google has done to promote the open-source community? Has anybody ever heard of "Google Summer of Code"? They are paying students $4500 to write open source software for approved open source organizations. The organizations are acting as mentors for the students and the 200 accepted coders are getting fat paychecks to learn and write open source code for the summer. It's not like they are trying to piss on linux users, it's business. Quit looking for reasons to deprecate companies when you haven't looked into why you should promote them.
Quoted For Truth.

Google is an avid supporter of Open Source. Realize that Google Earth is still in it's early stages, and probably cannot be made open source, in that it is most likely interfacing with proprietary software. It cannot be web-based, as it is too large and relies heavily on graphical rendering capabilities of your video card. The only way to do this would be using Java3D, and there may be a problem with the software interfacing there, or the speed (seeing as it looks like the program was written in C/C++/C#).
 
  


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