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theCapitain 09-03-2017 04:15 PM

Librem Phone
 
"Librem 5, the phone that focuses on security by design and privacy protection by default. Running Free/Libre and Open Source software and a GNU+Linux Operating System designed to create an open development utopia, rather than the walled gardens from all other phone providers."

That's the phone I was waiting for ... https://puri.sm/shop/librem-5/

Mill J 09-04-2017 11:04 AM

I hope it takes off! We need a good open mobile alternative!!!

theCapitain 09-04-2017 11:20 AM

Absolutely, especially an open one, running a real linux OS. Fingers crossed they reach the founding target.

andros705 09-04-2017 06:35 PM

Too bad too many open mobile OS failed.

ondoho 09-05-2017 01:10 AM

i'll be happy to keep this thread floating on top for a while.

but meh, chances are slim no?

also with this project i'm missing some hard info.

all i've seen so far is a useless video, and some project goals...

also, i'm no expert in crowd funding, but a goal of $ 1.5 million, isn't that a bit rich?

theCapitain 09-05-2017 11:40 AM

I’m not an expert either, but considering the price established for the device $ 1.5 millions means they will start the development after receiving 2500 preorders. It's not that much, after all.

ondoho 09-07-2017 12:42 PM

^ i see, i didn't consider that the money goes fully (or almost) into the ordered device; so in a way the crowdfunding goal defines the size of the first batch, i guess.

still missing the hard info.

not wanting to diss the project, but the video is really just hot air (and somewhat laughable to any hacker).

edit:
just had another look at their pages.
i really miss any sort of hardware info.
they talk a lot about free software, but not about the hardware.
otoh, https://puri.sm/about/ mentions that they already did laptops (succesfully i suppose) - i guess that adds some sort of credibility.

IsaacKuo 09-07-2017 01:16 PM

I'd be more interested in adding phone functionality to existing devices that run Debian (which PureOS is based on). This might include rooted Android phones which have had Debian installed on them. But more generally, giving phone functionality to existing netbooks and laptops would result in something that a lot of people could really just start using right away.

273 09-07-2017 01:39 PM

It's another slab of grubby glass without a keyboard, A choice of distro is good.
I hope they succeed but I'll not bother, especially for the amount of money they're expecting people to bet on it.

ondoho 09-07-2017 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IsaacKuo (Post 5756548)
I'd be more interested in adding phone functionality to existing devices that run Debian

this one has got the hardware built in (but weird, they're still on preorder - i was interested in it before christmas).

IsaacKuo 09-07-2017 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ondoho (Post 5756562)
this one has got the hardware built in (but weird, they're still on preorder - i was interested in it before christmas).

I've been following those folks ever since the Pandora handheld (which they had to rename OpenPandora during development because of the emergence of that Pandora thing). They're not a big outfit, so don't be surprised that everything takes a long time. Think in terms of years, not months.

Note the twin thumbsticks, D-pad, and controller buttons. Like its predecessor, Pyra is focused on retro gaming. This is awesome as far as I'm concerned.

But the physical keyboard is honestly too small to be useful for coding or general computing. Think of it more as being useful for controlling emulated computer games. In particular, compare its keyboard layout with the classic ZX Spectrum.

theCapitain 09-08-2017 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ondoho
i really miss any sort of hardware info

They say: “The specifications are continuing to get pinned down, and will not be finalized until after the campaign ends, so please share what you’d like to see, and we will evaluate all design feedback that aligns with our beliefs.”.

So people must trust them to bet on it. Personally I don’t care much about hardware, my priority is to get back in control of my device and to be reasonably confident that there isn’t something like NSA code embedded into my mobile. In my understanding those guys aim also to use / develop open source drivers for the most part of hardware chips. I suppose they cannot replace all drivers at the beginning, but I admire the effort.

ondoho 09-09-2017 04:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theCapitain (Post 5756791)
They say: “The specifications are continuing to get pinned down, and will not be finalized until after the campaign ends, so please share what you’d like to see, and we will evaluate all design feedback that aligns with our beliefs.”

ah, thanks.
actually that isn't such a bad thing seeing as these crowdfunding things can take a long time and surely it's better to be able to make quick changes based on recent market development.

Mill J 09-26-2017 08:31 PM

On the site it said they are 51% to their goal.

ondoho 09-27-2017 06:39 AM

i watched a lunduke show with puri.sm's ceo interviewed.
the guy (lunduke?) almost wet his pants because of how cool the whole project is; anyhow, he was also asking good questions & the ceo gave good answers.
let's see if i can find it... yep, here it is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SwE9W8JasA

Mill J 09-27-2017 07:00 PM

Hey thanks for sharing that video. It seems open mobile and hardware is gaining slowly but surely. Some people think Ubuntu Touch is dead but its going strong at ubports.com

Has anyone seen the Fairphone2 yet? I don't have one but It seems cool because it is completely repairable and you can run android or Ubuntu Touch etc
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=s_B-j3...ient=mv-google

These phones are likely over priced but as more manufacturers see a market... :)

ondoho 09-28-2017 05:00 AM

fairphone2, very interesting.

ubuntu touch - not so much:
a while ago (almost 2 years) i was very close to purchasing a ubuntu touch phone, and researched the os: it shared not only the kernel, but also the damned java ui with android, and regular upgrades "apt-get ..." were - well, possible but not recommended. unpredictable outcome. OTA updates were the recommended way then.
since ubports seems to be more concerned with porting than with OS development, i doubt any of this has changed...?

jens 09-29-2017 10:38 AM

As for their crowd-funding goal, it might be worth mentioning that it's officially supported by both KDE and GNOME.

https://puri.sm/posts/librem5-kde-pa...-announcement/

https://puri.sm/posts/gnome-foundati...-5-smartphone/

Edit: I'm definitely backing this.

theCapitain 10-05-2017 01:09 PM

An interesting post with some "exciting" pictures. It seems the work has already started.
https://puri.sm/posts/the-librem-5-d...-and-progress/

Of course I'm backing this too.

ondoho 10-05-2017 02:52 PM

^ i read recently that they're at a million now; safe to assume it's beyond 1 million now.
:thumbsup:

jens 10-06-2017 11:17 AM

With $1,217,271 and still 17 days to go it's looking good :)
If you're still doubting, do bare in mind that this might be your last option to get a fully free phone platform, please make it happen.

273 10-06-2017 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jens (Post 5766973)
With $1,217,271 and still 17 days to go it's looking good :)
If you're still doubting, do bare in mind that this might be your last option to get a fully free phone platform, please make it happen.

I really don't understand how this is a good thing to own.
It's an iPhone clone like all he other Android "phones" and doesn't have anything interesting at all.
My personal computers run Linux because I have choice and configuarability but my phone is something which should have been replaced a decad ago by a tiny phone and a data-linked laptop.
Call me a fanboy if you like but , to me, this Priv is the only innovation in "smart phone" I have seen. I don't care how many people get to see the CPU designs -- how about some innovative hardware not copying Apple?

IsaacKuo 10-06-2017 03:47 PM

Well, it looks like it's fundamentally based on Debian and GNOME3, which already is a lot more like what I'd like and also rather un-iPhone/Android like.

But I know what you mean by the basic hardware. It's fundamentally a touch display with some mostly annoying buttons around the edges. I think anything like a sliding keyboard would be backwards and would adversely impact thickness/internal volume. But it would still be possible to innovate in other ways-ways that don't have much impact on the basic design.

For example, consider a pair of cameras on the right side of the phone. Your hand rests to the right of the phone, as if resting on top of a mouse. The cameras can view your hand/fingers, so when you move your hand it acts like a precision mouse. This is a much better fit for a typical Linux Desktop Environment (such as GNOME3) than a small touch screen interface.

Or consider placing a mouse sensor on the phone, along with mouse buttons/wheels along the top edge. This lets the phone itself be used as a mouse, which is a good fit with an HDMI cable to an external display, or some sort of wireless screencasting.

In an alternative mode, the mouse sensor is used for scrolling, which lets you use the phone as a "viewport" to a larger document. As you slide the phone around a table, the document scrolls in the opposite direction. As a result, it's like you're sliding around a viewport to a larger document that is fixed on the table.

Basically, Debian has oodles of software, but hardly any of it is pleasant to use with a small touch screen interface. It would be good to innovate the interface to make it work well with desktop software.

273 10-07-2017 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IsaacKuo (Post 5767067)
I think anything like a sliding keyboard would be backwards and would adversely impact thickness/internal volume.

As I mentioned, don't want to be a fanboy but the Priv has a slide-out keyboard that's pretty decent and it's a thin as most other phones out there -- certainly thin enough as it makes no odds.
they're hellish expensive and I've not seen one in the flesh but Open Pandora (or whatever the current incarnation is called) certainly looks pocketable even if it's not supermodel-thin like the latest phones.
As to running Debian -- yes, all well and good and at least I wouldn't have to use a third-party SSH app for a few quid. However, it remains to be seen how well things like train company "apps", the Steam phone "app" and the like can be used. These are things which, while I'm still very sceptical about the whole "app for everything" replacing simple things like websites (and, indeed, SSH clients and file managers...), are good to have on a mobile phone.
It just doesn't make much sense to me to spend hundreds of pounds on something with the form factor of an iPhone with none of the functionality associated with that form factor.

By the way yes I am being a bit awkward in calling everything an iPhone copy but, really, to my mind they are as I used to own Windows CE and Phone edition devices back in the day with fold-out keyboards (even copy+past ;)) and the like so these things really are a step backwards. Heck, even Nokia had a web tablet but spoiled it by insisting that it not have a mobile data chip but, instead, be connected to a phone or WiFi hotspot (back when there weren't any).

So, yes, I applaud freedom of devices anywhere but I don't see what practical, everyday, benefits there are here.

jens 10-07-2017 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 273 (Post 5767029)
how about some innovative hardware not copying Apple?

They offer a (hardware) dev-kit as well.
It's not even meant to compete with Apple/Google (IMHO one of the reasons this might actually succeed).
But no. If you don't care about the open-hardware part, this (the full/prebuilt phone) is probably not your thing.

As for the "apps", do keep in mind that both KDE and GNOME are supporting this.

PS: They're getting close to the 90% with over two weeks to go.

theCapitain 10-08-2017 01:43 PM

Quote:

It's an iPhone clone like all he other Android "phones" and doesn't have anything interesting at all.
It's not a matter of having a cool device, we are talking about freedom. Open source is all about it.

273 10-08-2017 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theCapitain (Post 5767692)
It's not a matter of having a cool device, we are talking about freedom. Open source is all about it.

Yes, but freedom to do what, exactly? What can one do with this, that is actually useful, that cannot be done on any other iPhone clone?
As I mentioned, freedom on the desktop means being able to configure things and install things as one wants and does things like protecting against vendor lock-in. On a phone, what freedom does one need? What difference dose it make whether your phone uses upstart or systemd? What practical difference would one desktop environment make over another on such a tiny device?
Don't get me wrong, it's an admirable thing to do but piratically I don't see the
benefit to the purchaser.

theCapitain 10-08-2017 02:56 PM

Freedom from being monitored by various agencies or other dubious organizations. Freedom to use software that does only what it should.

273 10-08-2017 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theCapitain (Post 5767712)
Freedom from being monitored by various agencies or other dubious organizations. Freedom to use software that does only what it should.

Seems a lot of money for just calling people and using TOR though. What's the actual use case?

theCapitain 10-08-2017 03:26 PM

Not for calling people. I'm spending money to support a great project, it's a matter of principle. But I'm not here to convince you, that's my view.

ondoho 10-09-2017 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 273 (Post 5767720)
Seems a lot of money for just calling people and using TOR though. What's the actual use case?

i'll grant you it's a lot of money (at least for me) and i will probably not buy one for that price.
but the actual use case?
afaiu, it would essentially be a tiny gnu/linux tablet - i could do everything i can do on my other linux machines.

i can't do that with my current android phone (that's a statement that would deserve its own article).

and i could update/grade it just like any other gnu/linux install, which basically means: no built-in obsoletion.

jens 10-09-2017 10:22 AM

Here's a (imo) fairly balanced article about the (understandable) critics:
http://www.ocsmag.com/2017/09/27/pur...d-its-critics/

jens 10-10-2017 09:07 AM

Quote:

Purism Meets Its $1.5 Million Goal for Security Focused Librem 5 Smartphone One Week After Surging Past the 50% Mark
https://puri.sm/posts/librem-5-phone...0percent-mark/

ondoho 10-10-2017 01:11 PM

^ and more good articles. http://www.ocsmag.com/2017/09/27/pur...d-its-critics/

on debian forums, one critic turned and now praises the project.

i, too, feel positive about it.
but still i probably won't ever spend 600$ on a phone.

IsaacKuo 10-10-2017 03:25 PM

Yeah, $600 is way too much for me also.

I could really go for a phone which ran Debian (with xorg) natively, though. For me it's the freedom to run the software I want, on a computer I carry with me in my pocket.

ondoho 10-11-2017 02:22 AM

^ afaiu the librem phone will be just that.

YesItsMe 10-11-2017 03:18 AM

I doubt that yet another mobile phone will solve any existing issues. (Remember Ubuntu Touch?)

jens 10-11-2017 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YesItsMe (Post 5768643)
I doubt that yet another mobile phone will solve any existing issues. (Remember Ubuntu Touch?)

Their end-goal was creating a truly free phone. If they manage to provide this ... they've succeeded, end of story.
Unlike others like Ubuntu and Jolla, they're also working with existing upstream instead of reinventing everything (making it easy for many other developers and other projects that are yet to come).

Some quotes:
Quote:

Having full access to Purism's hardware platform is a dream for the KDE community. Partnering with Purism will allow us to integrate Plasma Mobile seamlessly with a commercial device for the first time. The Librem 5 will make Plasma Mobile shine the way it deserves.
--Lydia Pintscher, President of KDE

Quote:

Having a Free/Libre and Open Source software stack on a mobile device is a dream-come-true for so many people, and Purism has the proven team to make this happen. We are very pleased to see Purism and the Librem 5 hardware be built to support GNOME.
--Neil McGovern, Executive Director for the GNOME Foundation (and the previous Debian Project Leader)

caseyl 01-04-2018 09:03 PM

Passed Funding Goal
 
The Librem 5 surpassed the funding goal. I have been watching this for a few months and I am considering pre-ordering. From the Puri.sm website:

"This was an “all-or-nothing” campaign, but we crossed well over the $1.5m goal, and will be delivering on the Librem 5 phone. If you would like a Librem 5 you can simply pre-order one of the appropriate rewards now, and we will add you to the shipping queue!"

https://puri.sm/shop/librem-5/


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