xwindows and guis in general
 

I'm still trying to get used to the whole *nix GUI thing. It's a change from Windows, but I love having the option to choose my GUI. I understand that X11 is the lower level which can different windows managers (KDE, GNOME, Xfce, IceWM, etc) that run on top of it, which in turn have software written for them (Konqueror, for example). Please correct me if I got any of that wrong. GNOME is based on GTK and KDE is based on Qt, right? So how do programs such as Firefox run in both environments? Also, what do windows manager mean when they say "usable with KDE and/or GNOME environments"? Does that mean, for example, IceWM runs on top of either KDE or GNOME?

I tried to install X11 on my new install of Debian 3.1 Sarge. I configured my keyboard pc104 and PS-2 mouse /dev/input/mice or whatever the default was. First off, is there a way to get X to run at startup? And second when I try to run it from the console, the screen goes black, then comes back saying:

[lines I can't all view]
(EE) xf86OpenSerial: Cannot open device /dev/input/mice
No such device.
(EE) Configure Mouse: cannot open input device
(EE) PreInit failed for input device "COnfigured Mouse"
Couldn't load XKB keymap, falling back to pre-XKB keymap
No core pointer

Fatal server error:
failed to initialize core devices

How can I get my mouse working properly for X?

Sorry, that's a bunch of newbie questions, but this is a new experiance for me. Thanks!

Re: xwindows and guis in general
 

That's correct.

Because it only needs the appropriate libraries to be
happy, not necessarily the entire DE.

That's because a PS/2 mouse is /dev/psaux and not
/dev/input/mice ... the latter is for USB devices.



Cheers,
Tink

Thanks for clarifying the GUI stuff; it makes a lot more sense now.

Does anybody know what "usable with KDE and GNOME" means? Maybe it provides the libraries to run KDE and GNOME programs?

Ohhh, that would explain it! It's working fine now! If having a blank grey screen with a cursor is working fine, that is. If I could figure out how to hide X, I would install a GUI..

Thanks a lot for clarifying that!

lol....I think you installed X but didn't install a DE(GUI). If you did install kde, gnome, xfce, etc and you're still getting the grey screen try editing /home/<your name>/.xinitrc and uncomment whichever DE environment you installed and want to run.

In debian just run apt-get install <whatever "GUI" you want>

Okay, thanks. I put on IceWM, but it's a little too spartan for my tastes. Maybe Xfce or even KDE (if I buy more RAM).

How can I get my computer to not go to the console when it boots up and instead either offer me a list of GUIs and/or a graphical login screen?

I believe in debian you would edit /etc/inittab,
Line --> id:3:initdefault
change the 3 to a 5

Okay, I did that, and when I booted the computer again, while it did say it was in runlevel 5, it brought me up to the console login screen. By the way, my .xinitrc file is blank; should I add "xfce" to it? I didn't think Xfce offered a login manager, though.

did you install gdm, kdm, or xdm?

Aaaarrrrrggggghhhh!!!! I'm sorry, but sometimes I get frustrated when someone asks a question here and it gets a bunch of responses from people which are going in the wrong direction. Perhaps this question would have received more accurate answers in the Debian forum. Oh well, aaanyways...

First off, if you don't mind reinstalling, the best way to get everything up and running is to reinstall Debian and select "Desktop" software installation. This will install all of GNOME, KDE, and gdm.

Second, if you'd rather figure out how to solve things without reinstalling, try this:

su (log in as root)
apt-get install gdm

This will install and configure gdm, a graphical login manager. This login manager will automatically be configured to include options for whatever desktop environments and/or window managers are installed (you did install at least one, right?).

Third, a clarification--X is the base low level graphical interface server. Graphical applications are built on top of X, usually using one of several popular programming toolkits (GtK for GNOME, Qt for KDE). Window managers are ALSO built on top of X, but counterintuitively they are independent of the other graphical applications. You can actually switch Window Managers without interrupting existing running GUI applications, which is a pretty bizarre experience if you don't yet understand the relationship between GUI applications and Window Managers. You can even run GUI applications without any Window Manager at all, but with weirdly limited functionality (all windows will open with the top left corner at the top left, and you may have no ability to resize or move windows).

For the most part, GUI apps do their own thing, while Window Managers just sort of handle the frames around the GUI application windows.

I wasn't aware it was going in the wrong direction. It would appear to me, that the questions changed throughout the post. Initially it was about /dev/input/mice.

What would you prefer we do, get his address and go over there to configure x?

Ah--I didn't realize that this poster has gone and morphed his first post several times. That's even more offensive.

Anyway, I was upset because of the advice about changing the run level, when that was almost certainly never his problem. AFAIK, no Linux installer defaults to booting to run level 3, certainly not Debian's. There are so many times when I see someone wants to get a graphical environment, and it's obvious what he needs is a graphical login manager (like gdm or kdm). And yet, there first replies always seem to involve setting the run level and/or typing in "startx".

As for what I would "prefer you do", I'd prefer you give advice based on what's most likely to be wrong rather than what's least likely to be wrong.

I can't recall a single instance on this or any other Linux forum where some linux user had accidentally set his run level to 3. How does that even happen?

I've seen lots of instances where someone didn't have gdm or any other login manager installed.

I'd rather you not come over and configure it for me, haha.

I'm running an old computer that won't be able to handle GNOME or KDE. I'll apt-get for gdm right now.

Yes, it's interesting seeing the difference between WMs and DEs. So I could run different WMs in GNOME or whatever DE I use? Sooo.. GNOME is a DE written for GtK applications just as KDE is written for Qt applications? And a WM like IceWM that is "compatible with GNOME and KDE" means it can run instead of either one's default WM?

lol...ok, sure thank you for the insight. There are distros that default to runlevel 3. You seem to know a great deal so I am sure you are aware of this.

You don't have to actually use GNOME or KDE just because it's installed. You can just let it install, and then when you see the graphical login popup, select a text console login (because the only other options will initially be GNOME and KDE).

Then, at the console you install your favored window manager(s). For example:

apt-get install icewm fluxbox

When you log out, it will return to gdm, with new options to select either icewm or fluxbox. Happy happy joy joy!