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Old 09-12-2015, 09:08 PM   #1
anon247
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Post Windows users try Linux and their comments...


Hiya,

I will preface this by saying i'm a noob in Linux. You might well say it was the poor sighted leading the blind I got a few friends over to play with Linux in my garage on some older machines. They are experienced Windows users, some were power users but none are IT pros - they don't program or create content. They know how to use Windows efficiently and effectively. Some had seen Linux and all knew of it. But none of them had actually used Linux on a desktop before, let alone actually installed it. They experimented with OpenSUSE, Ubuntu and Mint (Mate, Cinnamon, XFCE).

They gave some feedback. You might be surprised that what irked them was not things like the package management, repositories, settings, or terminal. In fact, they loved terminal in comparison to the "Command Prompt" in Windows. They understood that commands would be different, as would paths etc. This didn't bother them other than they'd have to set about learning how to use the OS, instead of spending that time learning how to make best use of the apps that reside on it. The group agreed that they didn't have to do this because Linux worked more or less perfectly well 'out of the box', but that because Linux was different enough they felt they'd need to investigate areas they weren't happy or comfortable with. We didn't spend that much time on this, which i think matters. A lot of people may well try Linux only briefly and not go much further. First impressions matter. So much of the awesomeness of Linux is under the hood, but most buyers these days look at the styling and if the buttons are easy to reach.

We could well be wrong with these points and please point it out if so. (politely is preferable) Solutions are better than ignorance.

So, here's their notes/opinions...

Installation
They liked the Live CD technique, and the fact they could cruise the web while waiting for the install to happen. It was a great introduction to the world of Linux. The OpenSUSE installer was more "pro" to them and a bit confusing not knowing the terms but much more informative than the Ubuntu-based installers. Some 'help' would have been good for noobs by why of links in the installer.

[B]Drivers[B]
They didn't really play with this, because every computer worked out of the box. There was one PC that had poor graphics performance and needed proprietary drivers installed. It was running Ubuntu and they didn't find the drivers location intuitive at all, nor the installation procedure. Forget OpenSUSE, the installation procedure is ridiculous and put everyone off.

File Manager address bar:
In Windows, we can select anywhere along the path with one click OR we can write directly in the address bar. In Cinnamon/Unity, we have one or the other - not both without clicking a button to choose one or the other. It's also ugly by comparison KDEs Dolphin was better but not as attractive or instantly obvious and it couldn't do this...

In Windows we can be in a path, and then start typing a filename at the end of the path which will then autofill against filenames that match the beginning of what is being typed. At which point we can either hit enter to load it, or highlight/select it (mouse or keyboard) the whole address bar and copy to get a complete URL we can pass to others - useful in networked workplaces. We couldn't see how to do this in Linux.

However, people who have used Windows 10 File Manager are irked by it's cluttered interface with far too much crap everywhere. Everyone preferred Win7's file manager to the rest.

Show desktop:
They loved hotcorners, but didn't like that there's no 'click to activate' option (were we just blind?). The number of times the mouse is moved toward the corner of a screen and activated a hotcorner was frustrating, leading them to agree that they'd just leave the feature off and use an icon instead (less preferable as it takes up more space on the bar, and is slower to activate - ramming the mouse to the bottom right and click is much faster). Microsoft sensibly created a small area at the bottom right corner for this role (show desktop at least) and it works great with a click. In Win10 they made it (sensibly) much smaller, using less space on the bar, yet still visible for new users to go "what does this do?". Once known (or set up), some used a keyboard shortcuts instead.

Workspaces:
Most of the guys were still on Windows 7 and LOVED Workspaces in Linux. Sadly, this is no longer a point of differentiation for Linux as Windows 10 has them out of the box.

Firefox:
Why on earth does Firefox have a titlebar in Linux when it doesn't in Windows? This annoyed everyone. Speaking of which, those in OpenSUSE had to Google 'install chrome in opensuse'. That's far harder than it should be - type in 'software' in the menu and there's multiple options.

Firefox didn't see Nemo's bookmarked network locations. In SUSE, if a bookmark was added to Dolphin, it still appeared in Firefox save as dialogue box. This was a big negative for Mint Cinnamon in the eyes of the users. I think all Ubuntu derivatives were the same as Mint for memory.

DEs:
  • Most people thought that KDE was too much effort - too different. They would have preferred a basic layout with options to add things as you go, rather than lots of stuff up front. Some didn't like the layout of the menu either.
  • Unity was liked because it was evident it was different. The File Manager was despised by all though. Mixed opinions about the universal bar. The screen that showed all the keyboard shortcuts at first boot was very much liked.
  • Cinnamon was liked because it just let you get to work, with enough prettiness to engage the user. Nemo was better than Nautilus, and prettier than Dolphin, but not as useful. They liked the menu a lot; Simple and effective.
  • Mint Mate - thought is was better than XFCE for lower-end systems. Liked the menu. Easy to get used to.
  • Mint XFCE - the group preferred everything else to it. Felt old and preferred Mate if using an old computer. Seemed 'different'.

File Manager and Windows style 'Libraries':
This was a big one for those who use Libraries in Windows. Not software libraries, but paths. I understand there's such a thing as symbolic links, but i don't understand how they might do this and wasn't able to share an alternative...

In Windows File Manager, we click on 'Videos' (a Library i've created) and it shows me subfolders of paths we have selected in 3 different places:
\\NAS\Video (where i store whatever videos that aren't in the other categories)
\\NAS\Home Movies (where i store family home videos)
C:\users\me\Videos (where i edit film)

There might be 20 subfolders visible from 3 different locations all in one 'Library' view. It's extremely useful and efficient.

e.g. http://blogs.technet.com/blogfiles/h...ibraries_2.jpg

Networked drive mounts:
If we turn on a networked location after we turn on the PC, the path doesn't automount. This rendered shortcuts dead until we mount the location manually or reboot. This isn't necessary in Windows, once it's available - it's available. People didn't understand why Linux would want to be different here and it was annoying.


=================================


So there you have it. They only dabbled for a few hours and a fair amount of time was installing the distros. First impressions matter and they left feeling impressed with what they saw but those little quirks made them wonder why they would put the effort into going to Linux when they'd still need (want) Windows anyway (gaming, but also the odd niche application). File management seemed to be a big issue and they weren't impressed with what came out of the box of the distros we experimented with.

To summarise, one guy said (not quite verbatim) "to switch to Linux i would have compromise some usability aspects and lose access to many games. Dual-booting is an option, but the only real reason to do this was for ideological reasons".

Help me find solutions to these 'issues' they have and maybe i'll bring them around again for round 2
 
Old 09-12-2015, 09:19 PM   #2
273
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There are no solutions to most of those. If somebody is happy using Windows then they should use it. I, personally, hate the "Libraries" thing but if I used it I can see how I wouldn't want to lose it.
I tend to agree with most of what they said, including XFCE (the DE I use most of the time) being "old".
Thank you for that, it was interesting to know how people think about Linux.
 
Old 09-12-2015, 09:46 PM   #3
ardvark71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 273 View Post
Thank you for that, it was interesting to know how people think about Linux.
+1

I enjoyed reading the feedback as well. Perhaps some changes could be made based upon these observations.

Regards...
 
Old 09-12-2015, 10:02 PM   #4
rokytnji
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Necessity is the mother of getting comfy with something different.

Maybe , because of going with defaults. Which is understandable in most cases.

Puts one off . I run spacefm file manager that puts Windows File Manager to shame.

My initial install came looking like this.

Being more configurable than Windows. With me being a experienced Linux user. I took that and made it appear like this
presently.

I am not a Windows power user or a Linux IT dude. Just a scooter tramp that runs Linux and is self taught.

Plus. I never go by what other people tell me. I find out for myself. So my judgment on something is sound. Besides. We are comparing candy in a store package and home made candy.

Taste is in the buds as they say. Nice post and thread by you from me also.
But I am one who cares less about what other people think about a gift horse.
Here. We ride them and treat them well. We do not open their mouths and start judging them if they are as worthy as a auction bought horse.

Happy Trailz, Rok
 
Old 09-13-2015, 02:06 AM   #5
Captain Pinkeye
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Libraries can be (kinda) mimicked by things like unionfs or mhddfs.

Thanks for the article, i enjoyed it. And for the time spent doing these things.
 
Old 09-13-2015, 01:00 PM   #6
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I am a former Windows user. I tried different Linux distros back in 2000 and I could never get all my hardware to work then because hardware support and any kind of support was horrible for Linux back then. It's a pleasant surprise to see that Linux actually works now. I have installed and running openSUSE13.2 KDE for two weeks now. Installation was easy. Learning Linux has a little steeper learning curve compared to going from Windows 7 to Windows 8 and 8.1. I did make a few mistakes on the first day learning my way and did re-installs. All the hardware works from the start except for my all in one printer that I had to install the drivers through yast which ended up being easier than in Windows. I am getting the hang of things. openSUSE works great. My only complaints so far is getting an ani-virus program that works they way it should. I found ClamAV is about as useful as having cancer. I ended up using COMODO but it's download package is missing something that it blames on what the kernel is suppose to have in order to run a diagnostic scan. While viruses are scarce for Linux I rather be safe than sorry. My other complaint is when your security password is asked there is no way to permanently remove the check from the save password. This is a security issue that is a must to get corrected because if you forget to remove the check that particular security is gone. openSUSE support has been good so far. I did have an issue watching mp4 videos but that seemed to correct itself I guess through up dates. So much still to learn. I just hate to use the terminal because things can go wrong but so far so good on that. The package manger is great. I just wish there would be good documentation on software.
 
Old 09-13-2015, 01:56 PM   #7
John VV
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Quote:
My only complaints so far is getting an ani-virus program that works they way it should.
Since 2003 when i was dual booting,the ONLY!!!!!! viruses found were on MICROSOFT drives that NORTON and or McAfee missed !!!
In 12 years i have NEVER!!!! seen a linux virus !

there are something like 12 to 24 linux viruses and something like 1.5 MILLION windows viruses

basically you are only looking for MICROSOFT viruses that YOUR FRIENDS are giving you
so that you do not REINFECT THEM

microsoft viruses do not run on linux ( maybe in wine??? )


Quote:
I did have an issue watching mp4 videos but that seemed to correct itself I guess
multimedia support in in the "packman" repo

use "allow vender change" and let packman replace suse-oss and suse-base packages

and suse makes this very VERY VERY easy to do
open yast / install and remove software
click on the repositories tab
in YELLOW there is a click option to set his as default-- do that for packman

Last edited by John VV; 09-13-2015 at 02:02 PM.
 
Old 09-13-2015, 03:08 PM   #8
Crippled
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John VV View Post
Since 2003 when i was dual booting,the ONLY!!!!!! viruses found were on MICROSOFT drives that NORTON and or McAfee missed !!!
In 12 years i have NEVER!!!! seen a linux virus !

there are something like 12 to 24 linux viruses and something like 1.5 MILLION windows viruses

basically you are only looking for MICROSOFT viruses that YOUR FRIENDS are giving you
so that you do not REINFECT THEM

microsoft viruses do not run on linux ( maybe in wine??? )



multimedia support in in the "packman" repo

use "allow vender change" and let packman replace suse-oss and suse-base packages

and suse makes this very VERY VERY easy to do
open yast / install and remove software
click on the repositories tab
in YELLOW there is a click option to set his as default-- do that for packman
It's still possible to get a virus but that's a very remote possibility. My luck is not that great. I also don't want to send viruses to other either. It's not like Windows or what's even worse is Windows 10 which is a virus of itself which you agree to get once you are agree to Microsoft’s terms of agreement. Thanks for the repo tip.
 
Old 09-13-2015, 07:04 PM   #9
anon247
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I actually saw a video very recently where a dude actually demonstrated a virus (malware) that he had in Linux. He recommended Sophos AV.

https://youtu.be/y_lhqg_p21k?t=3m17s

The guys asked me to point out as well that the terminal method for installing apps was awesome. I showed them a text file i have which lists all the apps i want to install and i just copy paste that into the terminal and everything was installed. They thought that was revolutionary

They were also impressed with LibreOffice. For a free product it was very comprehensive and in their limited testing was fine. A couple said they'd consider moving their folks from Office 2003 to this, but others conceded that switching from 2007+ wouldn't be easy as the UI is just too different. I mentioned King Office, which is a blatant Chinese ripoff (bless them! ) of MSO and proprietary (yes? i think so) might be an option for them to save some money.
 
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Old 09-13-2015, 07:06 PM   #10
anon247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crippled View Post
I found ClamAV is about as useful as having cancer.
In my limiting testing of it about a year ago, I would have to agree. ClamAV produces so many false-positives that it's dangerous.
 
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Old 09-13-2015, 07:12 PM   #11
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Recusant View Post
I actually saw a video very recently where a dude actually demonstrated a virus (malware) that he had in Linux. He recommended Sophos AV.

https://youtu.be/y_lhqg_p21k?t=3m17s

The guys asked me to point out as well that the terminal method for installing apps was awesome. I showed them a text file i have which lists all the apps i want to install and i just copy paste that into the terminal and everything was installed. They thought that was revolutionary

They were also impressed with LibreOffice. For a free product it was very comprehensive and in their limited testing was fine. A couple said they'd consider moving their folks from Office 2003 to this, but others conceded that switching from 2007+ wouldn't be easy as the UI is just too different. I mentioned King Office, which is a blatant Chinese ripoff (bless them! ) of MSO and proprietary (yes? i think so) might be an option for them to save some money.
That's the one I have seen. Matthew Moore knows his stuff.
 
Old 09-13-2015, 08:30 PM   #12
John VV
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Quote:
ClamAV produces so many false-positives that it's dangerous.
odd in 12 years i have not had many
a few scripts here and there
just do your NORMAL do diligence and RESEARCH!!!!!! errors and possible false positives

"-- Use those little gray cells behind your eyes ---" :A.C
 
Old 09-13-2015, 08:42 PM   #13
kilgoretrout
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Matthew Moore might like Sophos Antivirus but there are many, including a Google researcher, who would disagree:

http://www.pcr-online.biz/news/read/...ference/019463

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwoVX_TLy5g

http://www.darkreading.com/vulnerabi...d/d-id/1136142

I call BS on Moore's video since he's the only one I've ever heard recommend the Sophos product he is clearly touting and others have had justifiable criticisms of the product.

Last edited by kilgoretrout; 09-13-2015 at 08:45 PM.
 
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Old 09-13-2015, 11:09 PM   #14
rknichols
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Recusant View Post
I actually saw a video very recently where a dude actually demonstrated a virus (malware) that he had in Linux. He recommended Sophos AV.

https://youtu.be/y_lhqg_p21k?t=3m17s
If you watch that video carefully at the point where the viruses are being removed, you will see that the files being removed are tekdefense.dll and 854137.exe. Those are Windows files, apparently infected, that somehow got deposited in the directory for the Imagination slide show maker for Linux and, for reasons that are not at all apparent, caused it not to run. The viruses identified, Espion and FarFli, are Windows viruses. There is no evidence of any Linux virus.
 
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Old 09-14-2015, 12:10 AM   #15
FredGSanford
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I remember once the wife's job wanted her to do more office work, which required her to learn MS Office apps. I've always dual boot Linux with Windows XP at the time, but at home run Linux the most, so I booted into XP so she could practice with Excel, Word etc. After about a week of practicing, the next time she wanted to use our home computer, to my surprise, she told me to boot into the other windows=linux. It let me know if newbies used Linux more, the OS wouldn't matter as long as they can do what they need to do!

I enjoyed reading the feedback as well.
 
  


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