I would agree with you on PCLinuxOS being very easy and simple. It is also a livecd so you can try it before installing it. However I would not agree on SuSE being the Mercedes of Linux

Hello again gang,

I would like to comment on my suggestion of Puppy version 2.12 being easy on the new linux user a little further.

That being said, I just checked out the latest Ubuntu version 6.10. It was 698 Mb, the basics. I ran the live cd and it didn't contain modem modules. Why? Is it because all linux newbees use external dialup modems? I think not. Dialup still accounts for about half the market arround here and in other countries even more so.

OK how can Ubuntu be better for NEWBEES than a small OS like Puppy that recognises many dialup modems? Newbees are interested in installing a linux distro and first getting ONLINE. If they can't get online then alot just say "To heck with this, I can't even connect, how is this better? At least Windows works with my modem."

I first was introduced to Puppy about 1 year ago. I was a Windows freak and considered Linux a joke. After installing Puppy which I picked out because of my slow connection speed, I realised even though it is very small, it was also very advanced and fast.

It has many programs related to everything someone would want to do with a computer from desktop publishing to home office programs and at only 80 Mb including many modules (drivers) precompiled.

It's kernel is almost pristine whereas the kernel in Ubuntu uses weird commands like "sudo", remember were talking newbees.

In my opinion it is much better for a new linux user than Ubuntu and considering it is so small and based on a live CD or DVD, I recommend trying it as a live CD or DVD before trying Ubuntu.

Also it can be booted off any USB Stick, SD Card, or other media.

If one DVD or other media fills up then just plug in a blank and it will save the old one and install on the new one. I find this to be usefull as a newbee myself. It means if I screw up my Puppy and need to reinstall it, I can start from my last CD and still save all the info up to that point.

If there is another Linux OS that will do all of this then I haven't found it yet.

Looking through a newbees eyes and ears.
Ed

Okay, first - Modems are recognized by the kernel - or not. It has nothing to do with a distro unless the distro is using some ancient kernel.

Secondly, after opening up Synaptic Package Manager, and doing a search for DIALUP on a brand new computer I JUST installed DAPPER DRAKE ON that WAS NOT CONNECTED TO THE INTERNET THROUGH CABLE...I found this:

"GNOME PPP is an easy to use graphical dialup connection configuring
and dialing tool with system tray icon support."

Wow...that was hard. I read the instructions, found out I needed to search Syn, learned how to do it...and then found exactly what I wanted with the first search.

And it's got a graphical tool with a system tray icon? Damn, sounds like Windows, how easy is that?

Sometimes resolving something requires taking 1 step. RTFM. Seriously, if someone can't spend five minutes with an entirely new OS and read that all programs can be installed via Synaptic Package Manager, and how it works...what are they doing on a computer in the first place?

For stability, selection of programs available, ease of use, low learning curve, VAST help files...I don't think anyone can top Ubuntu.

Cheers,
Lord Ghost

I'm not at the other system right now so I can't check to be certain, but in order to get a PPP dialer for Ubuntu or a modem module after downloading the 698Mb file from the download page listed as version 6.10, don't you need to be connected to the internet?

If so this just makes my point. Why can't a Linmodem for example just be detected at initial startup in Ubuntu like in Puppy 2.12? Please forgive me if I'm wrong.

I noticed my home computer when installing Ubuntu required me to uninstall my ATI graphics card in order to get the live CD to boot because VESA was not an option at boot time. Xorg was the only option.

In Puppy VESA is an option at boot, basic graphics yes, however it did allow the system to boot.

I'm not knocking Ubuntu because I think it is a good OS but I can't see where it is easier to use at least on a system like mine which is the purpose of this discussion.

Have a good one.
Ed

Well, if it's not a Winmodem (and even many of them) it should be detected right away. However, it doesn't automatically assume you want to hop online the instant you are set up. There is a program installed by default called wvdial. Here's the description of it:

"PPP dialer with built-in intelligence
WvDial sacrifices some of the flexibility of programs like "chat" in order
to make your dialup configuration easier. When you install this package,
your modem will be detected automatically and you need to specify just
three parameters: the phone number, username, and password. WvDial knows
enough to dial with most modems and log in to most servers without any
other help.

In particular, you no longer need a "chat script" to handle the most common
situations."

Uninstall your ATI card? ie, you had to remove it from the computer? That would be really odd, as I just installed Ubuntu on a box with an ATI graphics card. And I'm unclear of what you mean that VESA wasn't an option but Xorg was...xorg handles the graphics. I'm kinda lost here.

That said, you *do* know that ATI graphics cards and Linux do not get along very well, right? For a newbie to try starting off with Linux, having an ATI graphics card is suicide. The learning curve is very very steep.

OH! Do you mean VGA? Yes, there *is* an option to drop your graphics down way low if needed in Ubuntu at startup.

It may be that you just need to read a bit more on how to set up the install a little better, however - I would tend to agree that with your particular system, I wouldn't try Ubuntu on it, nor any Linux OS. I would first get 100% compatible hardware that works right out of the box with Linux.

Now, that being said, Puppy Linux might be designed with the more rebellious Windows-oriented computers in mind. If that's the case, it's a good OS to look into, providing it has a simple to use GUI for installation, clear instructions, and excellent community support.

And of course, you happen to have one of those oddball rebellious Windows-oriented computers and no funds to set it up with compatible Linux happy hardware. :)

Cheers,
Lord Ghost

ATI is a big pain. I have a Radeon VisionTek that installs in a PCI slot so I had to remove it.

As far as the modem goes I should really get with the program and get ADSL. That would solve everything. I have a small ISP that I'm using that only cost 9.95 a month and the company tech support is in Ohio so they speak English which helps. They don't outsource which I believe in.

VESA is a basic driver without 3D or fast refresh rates that works on just about everything.

See Ya
Ed

Well I'm posting this from Linux Puppy 2.12.

Dude, I tried for about 12 hours solid to compile my ltmodem in Ubuntu because I think it is a great OS but for me, it is simply NOT possible to compile a driver.

Using Puppy which is 65Mb but not in basic form which is 39 Mb, I am able to install, and run my OS in about 5 minutes. I can then open GKDial 1.5.14 and a script which is part of Puppy detects my modem as ttyLTO and sets it as /dev/modem/ in about one second. It continues to work after reboot and doesn't disconnect after 10 or so minutes.

May I suggest to ALL Ubunbu users with softmodems (linmodems) which are not detected in Ubunbu, instead of using Mepis which is about a 40 hour download using dialup and detects ltmodems out of the box, try to detect your modem in Puppy instead. I can download the ISO in 5 hours. I know get DSL! Nope I don't want too.

Quit praising Ubuntu because it is eye candy and open your eyes to other distros that are better but less recognised because they aren't super-sized.

When Ubuntu can pick up a software modem like Mepis (big too) or Puppy can, well then I'll go back, but the last several days of extensive testing shows it is not up to par with Puppy or Mepis and yes my hardware is updated.

There is no reason I can compile a driver in 2 minutes using Puppy and not compile the same driver in Ubuntu using the same kernel version in several days except for Ubuntu being not as good as people make it out to be.

To Ubuntu... Get with the program. Not everyone can afford broadband. Not in the states where a good broadband ISP will cost 40 dollars or more a month. If I lived in Japan where the same broadband cost much less then that would be different but I don't live there.

Everyone have a fine New Year
Goodnight
Ed