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Old 08-31-2004, 05:44 PM   #1
rollo
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What is the point of KDE if it can't install software?


I always thought the main use of a GUI was to facilitate routine tasks like software installation.

Yet apparently you still have to fiddle around at the command line in order to get programs working.

I want to install Quanta Plus. I have downloaded the file, and clicking on it in Konqueror seems to unzip - sorry, unTAR - it into a new directory. The installation instructions talk about typing this and that at the command line - but I can't even access the directory created by unzipping the TAR in Konqueror. Forgive me for my frustration but this is ridiculous.

There seems to be a real contradiction in Linux. The GUI interface is slick and infinitely more customizable than Windows - but the moment you want to do something useful it is impotent.
 
Old 08-31-2004, 05:55 PM   #2
esteeven
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hello rollo ---- I can understand your frustration. It does all seem very complicated at first. A "straight from Windows" comparison can often leave Linux wanting ------ if ease of use is all you want. If you want choice, stability, security and control, you've installed the correct operating system. My problem is that it's VERY difficult to help you if I don't know which Linux you have installed. Perhaps you might like to help us to help you........? State which distro you are using. Perhaps there is a package management tool that you could use? Also, clicking on a tar file in Konqueror is not the way forward. I'm not suprised that you have problems You will need the command line ----- but it's not that difficult. I can do it
 
Old 08-31-2004, 05:56 PM   #3
psa
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the use of kde is a gui, w/o the gui, its just a command line... so u choose that, or this.... plus its extremely easy, for me, to install programs.. i think its better then windows...
 
Old 08-31-2004, 05:57 PM   #4
Tinkster
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Re: What is the point of KDE if it can't install software?

Quote:
Originally posted by rollo
I always thought the main use of a GUI was to facilitate routine tasks like software installation.
Quite the opposite is the case. For the routine you
use the command-line, preferably scripting it. GUI is
for browsing, leisure, design tasks :)

Quote:
Yet apparently you still have to fiddle around at the command line in order to get programs working.

I want to install Quanta Plus. I have downloaded the file, and clicking on it in Konqueror seems to unzip - sorry, unTAR - it into a new directory. The installation instructions talk about typing this and that at the command line - but I can't even access the directory created by unzipping the TAR in Konqueror. Forgive me for my frustration but this is ridiculous.

There seems to be a real contradiction in Linux. The GUI interface is slick and infinitely more customizable than Windows - but the moment you want to do something useful it is impotent.
That just means that you haven't yet understood the concept
of distro-specific packages, generic binary installers and source
installations. I'd say you should go to http://rpmfind.net and find
a Quanta rpm that matches your distro - chances are that "clicking
it" will indeed install it. If you REALLY want to understand what
you were doing with the tarball have a look at this thread



Cheers,
Tink
 
Old 08-31-2004, 06:31 PM   #5
rollo
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Yes you're right - I haven't understood the concepts of "distro-specific packages, generic binary installers and source installations" very well.

And ultimately, why should I have to? This is my point. Perhaps the best place for routine tasks is the command line, but I just don't agree that this is the optimum solution. The command line, while logically elegant, is by definition non-intuitive - you have to remember what to type. For non-technical users there should be a way around it. In other operating systems which shall remain nameless, there is.

I am not in any way disparaging Linux and its creators. I am really impressed with what has been achieved given the strange business model. I have nothing but gratitude for people who choose write excellent software for free.

Getting back to specifics, my distro is Suse 9.1. I'm going to check out http://rpmfind.net because clearly this seems the best route for me - thanks. And no more clicking on .tar files in Konqueror - thanks for that advice too.
 
Old 08-31-2004, 06:49 PM   #6
Tinkster
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Quote:
Originally posted by rollo
Yes you're right - I haven't understood the concepts of "distro-specific packages, generic binary installers and source installations" very well.

And ultimately, why should I have to?
You don't - if you're using SuSE, stick with SuSE's
rpms ... when using the other OS, which shall remain
unnamed, you COULD go and get the source-zip packages
of some projects and compile them. Instead, you go
and download an executable installer. All you need
to do is to understand that "your personal choice
of Linux distro" uses RPMs for that purpose instead
of exe's. And as with Windows exe's (you'd be hard
pressed to be able to install a win3.1 executable in
many cases) you have to be careful about the RPM
you choose.

Quote:
This is my point. Perhaps the best place for routine tasks is the command line, but I just don't agree that this is the optimum solution. The command line, while logically elegant, is by definition non-intuitive - you have to remember what to type.
And in the GUI you need to remember (or even find out)
where to go to achieve certain tasks, often unintuitive.
De-installing a printer in XP for example is a pet-peeve
of mine ;)

[quote[http://rpmfind.net because clearly this seems the best route for me - thanks. And no more clicking on .tar files in Konqueror - thanks for that advice too.[/QUOTE]
You're more than welcome!


Cheers,
Tink

Last edited by Tinkster; 08-31-2004 at 08:44 PM.
 
Old 08-31-2004, 09:13 PM   #7
irlandes
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I agree

You CAN do most installation tasks in KDE, but, yes, you have to learn how. It is seldom true that you need to make a script to do it. barf. I have installed rpm's and tar balls over 4 years, and I don't even know how to make a script. Many tarballs come with their own scripts, but I need not create one.

I do admit once one learns how to use the command prompt, it can be very handy, but I do not agree one MUST use the command line. That is one of those hoaxes like "Winmodems don't work in linux, gotta' buy an external modem."
 
Old 08-31-2004, 10:23 PM   #8
Tinkster
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Re: I agree

Quote:
Originally posted by irlandes
I do admit once one learns how to use the command prompt, it can be very handy, but I do not agree one MUST use the command line. That is one of those hoaxes like "Winmodems don't work in linux, gotta' buy an external modem."
Describe the GUI way of gathering the following
information: find mulitmedia files with the following
extensions
asf avi mp3 mpeg mpg wma wmv
under a given directory and add their
sizes to a total sum, listing their names, owners and
sizes ... ;) ... don't forget to mention how long it took
you to get to the result!
Command-line, against a remote filesystem; took me ~2
minutes to think off how to do it and type it in, and
~3 to find all files on the server with ~ 25GB of files.


Cheers,
Tink
 
  


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