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Micik 06-03-2006 04:54 AM

Trying linux, second attempt
Hello friends,
I decided to again to try to learn linux after unsuccessful instalation of RedHat 8.0.
I decided to try Mandrake 10.0.1 since I heard it's more suitable to beginners.
I have the following configuration:
CPU AMD duron 750 MHz
HDD1 Maxtor 40GB, WinXP two partitions (20 GB+20 20GB)
Hdd2 Maxtor 15 GB, Win200 (I have dual boot)
SVGA integrated Sis 610/710
RAM 736 MB
I have dual boot configurations, on first disk is installed win XP, I have two partitions on that hard disk 13 GB is free on first ppartition and 4 GB is free on second partition
On second hdd, win 2000 is instaled and I have 10 GB free of 15 GB hard drive.
Now what do you recommend me?
Should I create new partition on second hard drive and installed Mandrake on it or?
What is disk requirements of Mandrake, is this configurations sufficient?
How would you approach to this problem, what would you do?


camorri 06-03-2006 06:53 AM

You will need to do some work on your partitions. From what you tell us, all your disk space is allocated, so you have no free space.

Linux uses different file systems than windoze. Win can use either NTFS or Fat32 file systems. My guess is you are using NTFS. Linux can read NTFS, but not write to it, without code that is not fully tested and stable. So, there are some things you must decide, so you don't wind up destroying everything you have.

Linux will boot from any drive. To do a reasonable install and allow enough space for you to install applications, the smallest space needed would be about 5 gig, 10 would be better. Decide which disk will work best for that much space. Then you will need a tool like Partition magic to shrink the partitions you have, and create free space for Mandy. Back up anything you consider important first. Failure to do so; and you could regret it after it is too late to recover your data.

You will need to install a boot loader, either grub or lilo. Do some research first, on multi-booting linux with windows. I think with a config like this you will need to put the boot loader on the MBR. Mandy will allow you to install either, during the install.

Now the free space is where Mandy will get installed to. Mandy has nice install tools for partitioning free disk space and formatting. It will create three partitions, unless you tell it to do otherwise. Once will be for root ( the system and its files ) one for swap, and one for /home. Home is where all your user files go. This is a good starting point.

The hardware you listed should be more than good enough. Research your other hardware, printer, network hardware, sound. Most things today ( except printers ) are well supported. Printers are an ongoing battle. Many manufactures do not co-operate with the linux community and release hardware information, so you find there are a lot of printers that are difficult, if not impossible to get working. That said, there are lots that do work. Research first.

Hope these thoughts help. Post back any questions.

Micik 06-03-2006 08:03 AM

Here's what I have decided:
I'll make anotehr partition on HDD1, so I'll have three there:
Partit 1: Win XP
Partit 2: I'll install win2000 on this one
Partit 3: Data (left as it is now)
I'll format other HDD (on which is win2000) so I can have all HD for linux.
Now, I don't want to have lilo or grub to boot both windows and linux, I want that boot loader for
windows can launch linux, so I gues I don't want to place linux loader on MBR.
Any suggestion how to do that?

saikee 06-03-2006 09:48 AM

This thread may be of interest to you.

If you want to use Windows boot loader NTLRD to boot all the systems it can be done but you need to put in 10 times the effort to get 1/10 the result of Linux's Grub.

Micik 06-03-2006 10:49 AM

Is grub really that powerful?
I thought that boot manager only gives choice which OS you want to boot, I don't konow that you actually can work with it.
When you say powerful, what do you really mean?
I thought that linux loader is weaker than linux because in linux loader you cannot write for example Windows XP in load list, you must use WinXP or Windows_XP (without space).
I really don't know what you can work with loader, it is not program like Word or Excel where you can do something useful, or maybe I'm wrong.
Thanks for help

JimBass 06-03-2006 02:06 PM

You're wrong! I have my dual boot work laptop boot with grub, and its name for booting into XP pro is two obsceneties (f%$^ing bulls$%t) with a space between. That is simply the title option. You can make the title anything you want. All that is important is the data around it, IE where the boot files of the OS are located, on which partiton of which disk. Grub has always been awesome at detecting MS when I have installed dual boot systems.

You are somewhat correct in saying there isn't much to a bootloader, but the nice thing about GRUB is it doesn't need to be reinstalled (like LILO), and its plain text allows you to edit it as needed. Grub also includes an edit option, so should you boot with grub and windows fails to come up, you enter edit mode, change the commands, and see if you get it to go.

The MS bootloader is absolute junk, as it is a nightmare to get it to function with linux properly. I tried using it to boot linux back when I first started and drove my self crazy. Use grub. You'll do it once nad never have to worry about it again.


saikee 06-03-2006 05:11 PM


My Grub boots over 100 systems, using the same commands changing only the partition reference. That is for all the Dos, Windows, Linux, BSD and Solaris. You can get anything simpler than that, can you?

The Grub floppy alone, without any OS attached, is capable of booting any PC system I know.

Grub is a mini operating system. When it is booted it has no kernel to work with but as a boot loader it can "cut and paste" itself to link with any boot loader. That is why Grub can them all.

In general you don't need any knowledge of the PC, its hard disks, partitions details or the OS it contains. Grub alone has the intelligence to find them out for you and so you can use a Grub floppy to boot up any OS in a PC totally new to you. Whether this is powerful or not is up to the user's opinion but you can't get any other boot loader to come close with the same functionalities.

The syntax you mentioned is for Lilo. Grub is pretty relax about everything. You can put anything you like in the "title" line.

Micik 06-04-2006 03:09 AM

Thank you guys, I belive you're right. So I choose Grub. During installation I choose GRUB and place it on hda (where I have dual boot winXP/win200). Now on my list I have: linux, ... windows and when I choose windows, I get standard windows "loader" (don't know name exactly) that gives me to choose between Windows Xp and Windows 2000. Is there any way to customize GRUB loader list? I want to write Windows XP/Windows 2000 instead of just windows in grub list? I installed Mandrake linux 10.1

JimBass 06-04-2006 03:46 AM

We mentioned the way to do that above. As root, edit the file /boot/grub/menu.lst. You'll see an entry for windows. You can edit that line that says title to have any text you want, as I said mine is curse words. Save the file, and next time you boot up you'll see whatever title you gave it.


Micik 06-04-2006 05:21 AM

Yes tahnks. I used to work under windows, I hope there's wat to do it just like in windows, but it seems that linux is more about typing... :)

grump1 06-04-2006 06:53 AM


Bit of Info.. In the the root directory of your boot drive is the boot.ini file which is hiden. This is your windows load file.

I have 4 hard drive in my system and each is loaded with different OS.
The BIOS allows me to select which device I desire to boot from. And windows would rewrite the MBR after a OS upgrade and there went progress.

camorri 06-04-2006 07:17 AM


You are correct, windoze will re-write the MBR on an Upgrade??? To fix it, you put your Mandriva CD in, and re-install grub. Back to normal. If you look arounf the forums, it is well documented on how-to.

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