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Old 03-25-2006, 07:24 PM   #1
StoneAgeMoron
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These posts are from Newbies?


I always considered myself marginally computer literate, and first learned simple programming in the early 1970's on an IBM 360, but all these Unix commands look REALLY primative. Of course, I vaguely remember some of the old MS-DOS stuff, but I thought all that old stuff went extinct over 20 years ago!

Why all this command line stuff in an OS in the 21st Century?

Isn't that low level stuff the job of the OS developer, and not the user?

I'm really perplexed.
 
Old 03-25-2006, 07:37 PM   #2
comradesniper
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What's wrong with the Command Line? : / If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
 
Old 03-25-2006, 07:41 PM   #3
reddazz
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There are many things that you can do in the command line that can't be done in a GUI. If you don't want to enter commands, why not just use a desktop environment like KDE or GNOME. I've read your other post and it seems like you are in the mood for a rant today.
 
Old 03-25-2006, 07:47 PM   #4
cs-cam
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Yes, it is very basic isn't it. Some people don't realise that is the point..

Find a file, right click, select copy. Find a new directory, right-click, select paste.

vs

Code:
cp /from/path/to/file.txt /dest/path/to/file.txt
Hmmm, simple yes but effective and quick yes too. My vote goes to option #2.
 
Old 03-25-2006, 07:48 PM   #5
cs-cam
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reddazz
There are many things that you can do in the command line that can't be done in a GUI. If you don't want to enter commands, why not just use a desktop environment like KDE or GNOME. I've read your other post and it seems like you are in the mood for a rant today.
Ahh thanks for pointing out his name. Go buy a Mac dude, linux isn't a spyware-free version of Windows, OS X is...
 
Old 03-25-2006, 07:49 PM   #6
victorh
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You are seriously confused if you think that the CLI is primitive. Not because some application has a "nice" Graphic User Interface (GUI) it means that it's more powerful or modern. In fact when you use a GUI you have limited use of an application, not every feature is displayed in the GUI. This is where the CLI shines, you have more control and more options, now tell me if that is primitive.

Furthermore, any GUI eats a lot of memory, this means that you need more resources when you are using several applications. Also. if someday you learn to use the CLI you'd realize that you can write some scripts that can automatize most of the tasks you normally do, is that primitive?

Having said that, I enjoy also using GNOME or KDE and the myriad of GUI applications that you have available in Linux. you can always choose if you want to use some GUI applications or the CLI to do your job, use the best tool for each task.

Anyway it's up to you, but learn a little bit more before stating such foolish statements
 
Old 03-25-2006, 07:50 PM   #7
comradesniper
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GUIs are good for certain things, but if you want efficiency you really need a command line at times. It is especially useful to know this if you have graphics driver problems and can't get the GUI to run! Also, don't forget that not all systems can work with a GUI - if a GUI was built into Linux, it would lose its inherant flexibility.

So, like I said. There is nothing actually wrong with Linux Gui/Command Line relationship as it is, so why bother to fix it?
 
Old 03-25-2006, 07:59 PM   #8
reddazz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cs-cam
Ahh thanks for pointing out his name. Go buy a Mac dude, linux isn't a spyware-free version of Windows, OS X is...
Exactly what I suggested in his other post. Linux is not always the right choice for some users especially those that want it to act and behave exactly like Windows or MacOS.
 
Old 03-25-2006, 08:08 PM   #9
mrclisdue
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Wayyyyy back in the late 1980s, maybe 1990 actually, I opened a franchised business, and a PC was a part of the package.

Now, I had learned Fortran, Basic, PL1 and Cobol in my high school days in the mid-70s, but I never bothered with amiga, and commodore, etc., because my life just didn't require a computer.

Upon setting up my brand-spanking-new PC, which came pre-loaded with a new-fangled Windows 2.0 OS, the young woman who was helping me declared that she just couldn't get used to this mouse and windows nonsense, and she longed for her Wordperfect 5.1 and Dos. This mouse stuff just wasn't going to amount to anything.

Nowadays, everyone's in love with the mouse, and guis, and the command line is considered some evil throwback to the days when no one knew better...., would you like to learn Latin while you're at it?

Every PC I've seen (let's not get into accessibility stuff, for now...voice activation, etc.) comes with a keyboard. They can operate without a mouse, but certainly not without a keyboard. Every time your hands have to leave the keyboard to perform some function with the mouse, you lose time. This is why WordPerfect was, and for as long as it's developed, is and will be better than Word.

Others have already said so, and I'm chipping in with my 2 cents: the command line will always be an integral part of all OSs. If you take the relatively little amount of time it takes to master it, you'll be way farther ahead than if you rely on the mouse and gui.
 
Old 03-25-2006, 08:09 PM   #10
KimVette
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Good luck scripting a GUI. It can be done but in order for maintenance to be run on your server you'd have to have:

X (X.org/XFree86) running all the time on your server
Root logged in continually, with the desktop unlocked
NO modal dialog boxes from notifications/errors/etc.
Python, TCL, and various other languages installed (and mastered by you)

Whereas in a shell script, you can keep X off, have NO users logged in (especially not root) and code everything you need to automate maintenance/backups/etc. in bash, sh, ksh, csh, or whatever other shell environment you prefer; it can all be run from cron.
 
Old 03-25-2006, 08:45 PM   #11
cs-cam
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Stop feeding the stupid troll....
 
Old 03-25-2006, 09:07 PM   #12
2damncommon
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Quote:
...but all these Unix commands look REALLY primative...
Why would typing "ls" to see a list of files be "more primative" than viewing them in a GUI file manager?
Quote:
Of course, I vaguely remember some of the old MS-DOS stuff, but I thought all that old stuff went extinct over 20 years ago!
So, were you right?
 
Old 03-25-2006, 10:27 PM   #13
BDHamp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StoneAgeMoron
I always considered myself marginally computer literate, and first learned simple programming in the early 1970's on an IBM 360, but all these Unix commands look REALLY primative. Of course, I vaguely remember some of the old MS-DOS stuff, but I thought all that old stuff went extinct over 20 years ago!

Why all this command line stuff in an OS in the 21st Century?
With all due respect, you really need to get over it. What in your mind makes you think complexity = good? Or, why is typing mplayer -dumpstream URL so much more primiative/worse than navigating a GUI (once you've actually found one that does what you need btw), clicking buttons, and typing in URLs into boxes?

Your rant over in the SUSE forum was okay for what it was and generated a decent discussion, but with this message, I think you're showing a pattern. I'm not seeing a lot of indication you want help or to understand, rather to throw out these thinly veiled barbs at people who happen to know the CLI can be far more efficient at completing tasks that an GUI in many situations.
 
Old 03-26-2006, 08:10 AM   #14
soldan
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for what its worth (and not even regarding linux)i am a noob to shell scripting and i had a need to save a list of files on a disc to a text file on the DT of a windows machine. i looked around and couldnt bare the thought of installing yet another program for such a small task, so i created a small batch file (thanks to some helpful guy on the net) and placed it in my 'send to' folder. now, everytime i want to complete this task, i simply go into the disk, right click on the folder to list, scroll down to 'filelist', click, and instantly the file is on the desktop. job done. i also enjoying learing it, which is a nice thing in itself
 
Old 03-26-2006, 09:28 PM   #15
StoneAgeMoron
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Thanks to those of you who took the time to post thoughtful replies.

Whenever someone tries to post a code snippet, all that is displayed is a grayed out empty one line box with the word "code" in the upper left corner. I can't learn if your instructional suggestions are being filtered out by my browser. What should I do to fix this.

If I may post a follow-up question: About how much technical education or professional experience is actually required to sucessfully install and maintain a Linux system? I have tried a few online Linux tutorials, but I don't understand them.

Also, isn't Mac OS-X also based on Unix, and also incorporate the command line? If I "go buy a Mac, dude," what sigificant differences could I expect in OS-X from Linux?

I am interested in learning, and I am trying to "get over it." Please bear with me. As my user name implies, in technology such as this, I am a stone age moron!

What exactly is a "troll?"
 
  


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