"switcher" questions
 

OK I have been really really fed up with Windoze for quite some time, but didnt dare try Linux as it seems so difficult to set up. Then I came across Knoppix, and oh god, I cant describe it, I was totally blown away.

Perhaps this is normal to you people, but me being used to windoze standards, and seeing my machine boot (from disc!) into a beautiful interface...with smooth video; audio; internet; built in codecs etc ...(it took me quite a lot of sweat and blood to get the audio n video right after installing windoze) suddenly woke me up to what Linux can do...I will attempt to switch...or at least experiment with Linux...

I am getting a Centrino notebook soon. I intend to dual boot windoze and linux since I cant possibly switch totally, completely, so quickly. Besides, my school work require Windows(I study graphic design...photoshop is my life..lol) So that's the lengthy background(sorry...), here are the questions:

1)How best to do the dual boot...what program to use? I think having a list of OS to choose from at boot time, and if no response in x seconds will auto-boot default OS is best. How to do that?

2)I will format away the preinstalled windoze, partition and reinstall. I want a partition for windoze, 1 for data etc and 1 for Linux. How much space should I allocate to Linux? (I have 60GB total)

3)Which OS should I install first? Linux or Windoze?

4)OK I've browsed through the forums and realise this may be difficult to answer...which distro is best? I prefer simplicity, I dun wanna mess with complies and other stuff. Preferably one that will allow me to do most "out of the box", is easy to learn, install and maintain; in other words most suitable for a Linux newbie like me?

I do the usual stuff...surf net(a lot, mozilla rulez haha)....play couple games here n there...do design work...chat (unfortunately my frens all use msn:( )...listen to mp3s...watch dvds and compressed videos..etc etc.

I would prefer to have Asian language support too(Chinese)...

5)OK another tough question. KDE or GNOME? Which is more similiar to Windoze(in terms of usage...not crashing and other annoyances) I mean less learning curve coming from Windoze background? Can I experiment with both, will they clash?

Being a designer I hate command lines (maybe Linux is not for me after all, lol) and really love beautiful GUIs(I adore aqua..the mac os x look...so cool! and xp luna sucks...). I realise this is v shallow but which has got better themes...skins..whatever it's called..if both are so similiar perhaps I decide using this...lol...

6) What about WINE? Any distro includes that? If not, is installing it difficult...I wanna play with it :p...perhaps even run photoshop with it? yes i know about GIMP, somehow i dun quite like it...too used to photoshop..my best friend(almost)...

7) How well does Linux fare with playing DVDs, widescreen(yea my notebook is a widescreen) and centrino wi-fi (802.11b)? Does it work easy, or a lot of manual configs?

8)How well does Linux mange battery life, since it's important to me to have the longest battery life possible...

9)lastly...i know linux is v v secure...but any firewalls, antivirus, encryption etc needed, esp with wi-fi? Or is it so wonderful that none of these nonsense are needed? (my, that would save a LOT of resources...on windoze u have to have a load of crappy stuff running all the time just to make your system half secure...and that still means its not secure...)

Thanks a million for reading thru all that (i'm really sorry it's so long, i cant help myself)and helping a very confused but interested Linux newb out...

Re: "switcher" questions
 

Either Lilo or grub installed into the MBR
will provide this service. Some prefer Grub,
I like Lilo better :}

I'd suggest
10GB for Win
30GB shared for data
20GB for Linux

Since the days of old MS OSes have been known
to wipe out competitors during setup, so always in-
stall winDOHs first.

From all I know there's a special Distro being
developed/set-up for/by the Chinese govt,
try googling for it.

You'll probably find KDE more familiar, but Gnome
better looking ;)

Don't know about wide-screen, my notebook
has a normal 1024x768... but it plays DVD's
just dandy :)

You'll have to manually add ACPI events I'd say,
or a special daemon (I recall having seen one on
freshmeat) that will throttle/speed up the CPU on
demand/usage.

There's a few anti-viral toolkits for Linux out there.
Have a look on freshmeat.net. Personally I use www.f-prot.com
's free for end-users thing.
Linux comes with iptables, which is an excellent
stateful firewall. You just need to define the rules.
Again, have a look at freshmeat, or search the links
on LQ :}
GPG for encryption, and again on freshmeat you
can find/grab free encrypting filesystems :)
You can configure secure access points with
Linux tools, too.


Cheers,
Tink

Re: "switcher" questions
 

Such program is called a boot manager and it's installed in Linux by default. You have a choice, two most popular are LILO and GRUB. You don't need to worry about installing one of them. During the installation you'll be asked if you'd like to install one and if you answer 'yes', you'll be asked where. Say 'hda' (fist disk, what means the program will start at boot). That's the only thing you need to remember about.

Quote:

2)I will format away the preinstalled windoze, partition and reinstall. I want a partition for windoze, 1 for data etc and 1 for Linux. How much space should I allocate to Linux? (I have 60GB total)

For Linux you need minimum 2 partitions: / (main, root) and swap (swap is on separate partition). I also recommend separate /home (for your personal files and configuration) - it's a good idea when you decide to try with another distro - you can keep your configuration.
Size: RAM size for swap (but no more than 512MB), /home approx 3GB (if you'd start graphics with Linux, you may need more :) ). / may be 6GB (it allows for a full install). But you can give Linux more.

Quote:

3)Which OS should I install first? Linux or Windoze?

Windows first. It overwrites Linux boot manager during installation.

Quote:

4)OK I've browsed through the forums and realise this may be difficult to answer...which distro is best? I prefer simplicity, I dun wanna mess with complies and other stuff. Preferably one that will allow me to do most "out of the box", is easy to learn, install and maintain; in other words most suitable for a Linux newbie like me?

Mandrake or SuSE, I think.I prefer Mandrake, myself. Everything in GUI, nice configuration programs. It has Asian language support (you can choose many Asian languages during install), but I don't know how good is it (I don't know any).

Quote:

5)OK another tough question. KDE or GNOME? Which is more similiar to Windoze(in terms of usage...not crashing and other annoyances) I mean less learning curve coming from Windoze background? Can I experiment with both, will they clash?

You can install both and decide yourself. If you choose to boot to graphical mode (that's what you'll probably do), you'll have a login screen where you can also which one to start (KDE and GNOME are not the only two, there are more of them :).

So you may find this site interesting: http://www.kde-look.org/ Themes, wallpapers and so on. KDE and GNOME are both very configurable and I can't tell you which one can give you more...
I can also tell you about Enlightenment (www.enlightenment.org). It's another window manager (like KDE or GNOME) and looks great. Especially when 0.17 will be released... :)

Quote:

6) What about WINE? Any distro includes that? If not, is installing it difficult...I wanna play with it :p...perhaps even run photoshop with it? yes i know about GIMP, somehow i dun quite like it...too used to photoshop..my best friend(almost)...

Most distros come with it on the installation cds. If you prefer more up-to-date version, Installation isn't hard if you choose RPM packages (the right one for your distro and version).
I've heard that you can run Photoshop under Wine.

Quote:

7) How well does Linux fare with playing DVDs, widescreen(yea my notebook is a widescreen) and centrino wi-fi (802.11b)? Does it work easy, or a lot of manual configs?

It depends on the drivers. If they're included in the distro, there's no problem at all. You can always test it with Knoppix.

Quote:

8)How well does Linux mange battery life, since it's important to me to have the longest battery life possible...

I don't know, I don't have a notebook (for now :) )

Quote:

9)lastly...i know linux is v v secure...but any firewalls, antivirus, encryption etc needed, esp with wi-fi? Or is it so wonderful that none of these nonsense are needed? (my, that would save a LOT of resources...on windoze u have to have a load of crappy stuff running all the time just to make your system half secure...and that still means its not secure...)

Antivirus in Linux are to scan Windows files or mail. Firewall is highly recommended (there are basic ones in the distros, easy to configure). Wifi is not very secure by design and encryption is recommended. Firewall and encryption won't take much resources.

WOW that was fast!! Glad I found this forum :D

OK so dual booting is settled...

30GB definitely won't make it for data...i have loads n loads of crap i can't let go of, lol..arghh i need a bigger HDD

Can linux run with less space? Or just installing needs 20GB?:eek:

I prefer not to have so many partitions...in windoze it's v messy...
Can boot 2 diff distros!?!waa....choice...the problem is choice...:P

I have already downloaded Slackware and Mandrake, seeing they top the polls here, but since Mandrake seems to have Chinese text support (DistroWatch)
I think I'll install that. OK Mandrake then...I browsed around, it seemed to be the easiest on newbies too...

I used KDE (from Knoppix)...it looked great though not very familiar(lol), and GNOME looks better than that?! Wow.. :D

I think I'll try both...as for the others...well...they'll have to wait:D

Mara...thnx for the links...very interesting...

Amzaing the choice one gets here....almost overwhelming in fact, on windoze it was xp blue...silver...green, and they all sucked. Oh and I saw mac themes...i m one happy guy...:D

more good news...

If it works in Knoppix, it works in all other distros of linux?

And since there r so few viruses for linux..can i do away with the anti virus? lol...ok maybe that question is like crazy over here in linux land...but i'm lazy:p

Ok i'll look up on the encryption n iptables...

once again thnx...u guys have been a great great help...now i m definitely much less confused...linux doesnt seem so hard...except till i actually install it..?lol...cant wait for the notebook to come...

P.S. I'll b going offline...it's 4.35 am :eek: where i'm from (singapore) can zzzzz peacefully n happily...(almost)M$ free at last! haha it's a start...

You can install it on 100MB (but it's hard at the beghinning). You can make a desktop with 2GB, if you really need to (nearly everything, but you need to choose). The problem is choice - you have usually more than 1000 different packages possible to install and reading all the descriptions takes time...

Quote:

I prefer not to have so many partitions...in windoze it's v messy...

Minimum for Linux is / and swap.

Quote:

Can boot 2 diff distros!?!waa....choice...the problem is choice...:P

You can (one swap for both).

Quote:

If it works in Knoppix, it works in all other distros of linux?

Yes, that' right.

Quote:

And since there r so few viruses for linux..can i do away with the anti virus? lol...ok maybe that question is like crazy over here in linux land...but i'm lazy:p

You don't need an antivir for Linux...:)

Nuh, you will probably do with 4GB plus swap,
I just though that once you get the hang of it
you might want to install MORE linux programs ;)


Well, you could do with only one linux partition, and
one swapper ... and if you use FAT32 for windows
rather than NTFS you'll have read & write access to
that, which would save you the separate data partition.


Pretty much yes. Knppix (debian) uses the
plain vanilla kernels from kernel.org. MDK,
RH, SuSE all make modifications to their
kernels, thus they might have even broader
support for hardware than knoppix.

Even if you don't catch Linux virii, it's still easier
and safer to find the winDOHs ones from Linux,
since they can't stealth their ways :} if they
can't run ;)

Pleasure, and enjoy!

And as for IPtables, I really like this thing,
it creates a well documented IP tables script for
you that you can use to learn and modify :}



Cheers,
Tink

Hang on to your learning curve. Here may be some helpful stuff for you.

Freeware partition manager: Ranish Partition Manager

Probably the hardest will be deciding on your partitioning scheme

# Partitioning
Linux Partition HOWTO
Rute - Partitions, File Systems, Formatting, Mounting
Proper Filesystem Layout

What all those directories are:
# Linux filesystem structure
Directory Navigation Help File
Filesystems, Directories, and Devices Help File

Getting ready to install
# Pre-installation guides
GNU/Linux pre-installation checklist
The Pre-Installation Help File

Picking your distribution:
# Linux Distribution links:
A Beginner's Guide to Choosing a Linux Distribution
Reasons to Choose or Not Choose Linux
LWN distro list
elinux Linux Distributions

If you download:
How To Check MD5sums On A Linux Iso Image
# How do I burn a bootable CD with Nero?
Information and Links For Nero CD Burning Software

Or, order them cheap
# Cheap CDs
AlmostFreeLinux
Discount Linux CDs
Linux Central
Cheapbytes
TuxCDs
ComputerHelperGuy
CheapISO
Os Heaven

# Linux and virus
The Virus Writing HOWTO reference: Should I get anti-virus software for my Linux box?

# Basic Linux security
Linux Questions Security references
Security Help Files
Linux Administrator's Security Guide
Security Focus
Linux Security
Firewalls and Security

thnx fancypiper for the great links...and tinkster n mara for the answers i badly need...

OK now i sort of halfway understand the Linux filesystem...so diferent from windoze, have to unlearn, lol.

I've decided to give Linux as many partitions as it needs, dun care about mess in windoze explorer :rolleyes:

So..is this how it should b done?(in windoze style, i dunno how this will appear linux style, haha)

c:\10gb, windoze installed here, NTFS(i hear its more secure..)

d:\40gb, data, fat32 (i want a separate data drive...to prevent windoze screwing things up, i have learnt this the hard way :( n never use the default "my documents")

ok this is the part i m not sure about...how to order the partitions n their sizes(i'll give linux 10gb)

e:\ linux installed here? format, fat32? linux filesytem?5GB?

f:\ 512MB, swap.. (i hav 512MB RAM..so same sized..)

g:\ home, 4.5GB?

any more partitions needed? any suggestions, comments..i read the links..many are intended for servers and too advanced for my undertstanding..lol...but I see that order is important, is this the right way to order the drives?

and, i shld format windoze n linux partitions during their respective installations(as a guide said)?

ok this is about photoshop n wine. to run ps, i point wine to c:\program files\adobe\photoshop (where its installed)? then will wine save how i configured ps?

if it does, is this config unique to inside wine, or will ps in windoze b affected? will it corrupt my c:\ drive(in ntfs?)hmmm..wait a min, i shld mount c:\ as read onlie rite? then nothing bad will happen...

can kazaa run in wine? hehe....;)

wat about the reverse, can windoze access the linux partitions, esp /home...might need to get the personal data there...

lastly, if i boot into windoze n hibernate it (save contents of ram to hdd n shutdown), when i switch the computer on again, will i get os selection, or will windoze resumes?

thnx once again...

Pleasure mate, and thanks for the affero :)


I don't know whether the home needs to be that
big, or the Linux / partition. Basically you'll want to
save linux documents in the data partition, too,
rather than in /home. Windows by default doesn't
have the ability to access any Linux native file-
systems, and you'll have to chose one of those
for the reasons of permissions. I recommend ReiserFS,
btw :}


Yes, you should. Create c: and d: first, then install
winDOHs in C:\, when finished fire up Linux install,
creating the remaining three partitions and formatting
them. Linux (and thus Wine) by default don't know
how to write NTFS, and even though you can enable
the write support in the kernel it's not considered safe.
Wine will create a local registry in Linux, and merge
them during load.


See above. NT can't read Linux by default, there
are tools out there that will give you the ability, but
hey, I don't trust windows with it's OWN file-system,
I wouldn't let it touch Linux' ;)

No idea what happens on hibernation :)


Cheers,
Tink

well its the least i can do...:) affero is certainly interesting...good way to get a helpful community, lol

Ok good...i did try running photoshop 7 in knoppix :D(in fact i m running knoppix now, hehe),it gave me:

"Could not complete your request because of missing or invalid personalisation information."
and an ok button, which quits photoshop :(

For the fun of it, I tried kazaa too:

"Couldn't load topsearch.dll"

I know that WINE can use the dlls, but this cant be done under knoppix right? I cant install anything under knoppix. Is that normal, since its running from disc? And it lags pretty bad sometimes, also cos of running from disc i suppose...ps starts up quick though, faster than in windoze i would say :cool: amazing even though ps itself doesnt work, lol...

Hmm, ok duly noted; then I'll save Linux docs in data, and make the data drive bigger. What size shld / and /home b then? I thought u suggested 20GB for linux, that's y i gave it more space?(though i cant afford 20GB, lol. i went thru my current machine n still cant find enuff data to sacrifice...:( )

BTW what's /home? its sort of combo "my docs" and my user preferences isnt it?

Actually I would prefer if windoze explorer cant see the linux stuff at all, it's neater...and safer :p

OK, i just wanted to be able to access my personal data while in windoze, anyway its a moot point now...

well, windoze does screw up its own filesystem pretty bad, my bro hung it once during a game and I HAD TO REINSTALL EVERYTHING, took like 6 hours? not to mention data n settings lost...the whole drive was corrupted beyond hope...
And normal use fragments it like hell too :mad:

Ok i feel much better after the rant...

Hmm, hibernation is weird...me wonders how its handled...is it true that if it goes through the MDR first, then i'll get the choice, but if it doesnt, then windoze will resume? just my guess....

Just some tips:
1) windows simply ignores linux partitions, so you won't end up with a S:\ drive ;) And since linux fs is hierarchical, having several partitions (up to a reasonable number, of course) won't make it 'untidy'
2) almost no windows user likes dos prompt, but *nix console is a different world! Autocompletion, good man pages, lots of useful tools... even if you may prefer gui, it definetly comes handy for some tasks!
3) hibernation: AFAIK it reads the image file in memory and restores cpu regs, so it skips boot process. Note that hibernation makes fs encryption vain!
4) battery usage was indeed a weakness of linux, still i think it's nearly solved now. You may need the latest or a patched kernel.
5) wine
a) since ntfs has only experimental writing support, you should map your wine 'c:' drive somewhere in your linux tree (usually /home/yourusername/wine/c/). You don't need to copy most ro data: take advantage of symlinks (you know symlinks, don't you? You'll love them! ). I'll soon be posting an howto on symlinks/shadowing filesystems.
b) as many win programs won't run if you simply copy program directory to another linux machine, you may have same problem under wine. There are 2 reasons: missing dll (easy to solve: copy/symlink them) and registration/copy protection. You may need to import your winxp system registry file into wine registry, still it will make wine less 'clean'... ask for more info on this
as an alternative, you can perform a true indipendent program install under wine
c) don't expect every app to run smoothly under wine! Most actually work, some do better than on native win system, but there's a big bottleneck: GUI-related system calls have to be translated, and this process is not always optimized! This means some apps would perform much worse when drawing to screen. I fear photoshop is quite affected by this!
6) safety: as long has fat32 is accessible by windows, it's not safe. And even if it was, still a physical disk breakdown would permanently destroy any data on it. So never be too confident, backup! (I learnt it the bad way :o )

Welcome on the free side
Alessandro

If you are seriously considering migrating to Linux, then I would argue that /home should be as big as you can afford. My logic for this is simple; if you store all your data there - music, pics etc, when you come to upgrade / replace your current distro, all your data is still there. Only use the shared FAT partition for the data that you NEED in windows.

There are apps / patches that allow Windoze to access ext2 partitions, but as previously mentioned, I would be Very careful how you use these...:p

Also, unlike windoze, adding extra drives does not create new drive letters. Therefore, you could have (for e.g.) /home/tarquin and add a new drive to the machine with 1 or more partitions, mounting one partition as /home/tarquin/data. everything just "melds" together across drives. I even have a drive on my son's Win95 PC mounted in my home directoy... :D

Tarquin

Hibernation and the boot process
 

I know I'm probably a couple of years late, but for the benefit of people reading this post closer to now who are wondering the same questions, the "un-hibernation" process must happen after the boot process (I think), as hibernation is a part of the OS, not the BIOS. as for going to the MBR, I have a dual-boot Ubuntu Dapper / Windows XP and keep them both in hibernation. When I need to use 3ds max, for example, which doesn't run under Wine, i hibernate Linux and upon restarting the system I can just choose Windows from the GRUB and "un-hibernate" it.

Also, on choice of distro, I prefer Ubuntu (Debian-based), as it has a graphical installer (as part of a LiveCD, so you can make sure it works), it has a nifty package manager in Applications > Add/Remove where you can just tick the programs you want, and it is available in Gnome (ubuntu), KDE (kubuntu) and XFCE (xubuntu) flavours. AND... even if you have, say, Ubuntu installed, and decide you want, say, Kubuntu, you can simply install he kubuntu-desktop package and Kubuntu appears in the sessions menu on the logon screen.