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Old 11-10-2019, 11:25 AM   #1
Beckrow
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Some personal and where to start


While struggling to get the latest update to Windows 10 to install (me and a few thousand others) I realized I only had 3 GB of free space on a 120 GB SSD. So having bought a new 500 GB SSD, I now have a free 120 GB drive to play with. I am a newbie only to Linux, not in real life, being the far side of retirement, so I think it is time to make the jump into Linux. From what I have read disc space is not going to be an issue, but what can I put in it that I can dual-boot with Windows? Is Ubuntu the place to start? I like a Windows icon based system not command line. And I will probably have a go with trying Wine with some of my Windows applications. Does Wine work with Ububtu?

Someone point me in a direction to start please. And where do I find all of these things to install?
 
Old 11-10-2019, 11:42 AM   #2
pan64
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yes, wine works on ubuntu, and yes, ubuntu can be a good start.
you can download the install iso from their home page: https://ubuntu.com/#download (choose desktop).
But you can choose another distro (like Mint), see https://www.distrowatch.com/.

And also you can try them before installation: use live CD
 
Old 11-10-2019, 12:47 PM   #3
Firerat
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The simplest way to dual boot is to setup your pc/laptop to boot from the 120 SSD first, and the 500 SSD second
During the Linux install it should find the Windows and offer it as a boot option in grub. without actually changing the bootloader on the 500 SSD

Thus, should you remove the 120 it will then default to boot from 500 and load windows.

The distro choice isn't quite as important as people make out
since you have Windows 10 and SSDs I assume the hardware is reasonably up-to-date, with plenty of ram, so a "light weight" distro is not a *need*.

The DE ( Desktop Environment ) is probably the most significant driving factor in disrto selection.
But, it is possible to switch DE in any distro, however the "flagship" DE will likely be the most up-to-date and get the most "love" from the distros package maintainers.

This is where LiveCDs are handy
burn a few and try them out, then install the one with the DE you liked best
no the most definitive of methodology in Distro selection, but it is a good start.


you may need to kiss a few frogs

I've Used many Distros
Redhat 5.2 ( late 90's )
OpenSuse
Slackware
Linux From Scratch
Ubuntu ( various derivatives )
Debian


also some *BSD on laptop, along with some Mandrake, CentOS and various Ubuntu's
but that is Debian now

I do have various containers and VMs, mostly for refrence


Regards Wine, reserve that for the *must have* windows applications that you simply can't find an alternative for.

If you list some of the Windows Applications you have in mind I'm sure we can offer gnu/Linux equivalents , or at least help with the black art that is Wine

Games are the usually candidates for wine, with mixed success.
 
Old 11-10-2019, 04:45 PM   #4
yancek
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If you decide to use Ubuntu, the Ubuntu developers have had the foresight to create a wiki page explaining exactly how to do it at the link below. I would suggest you read it first as it also has some good information on UEFI which would apply to most Linux systems.

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UEFI
 
Old 11-10-2019, 04:46 PM   #5
Temphelpme
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Hi,


If your like me and want the windows feel and have zero Linux experience. I started with a Linux Mint USB stick. Ubuntu may be the most popular, however the aesthetics suck. Now being I just recommended Mint (2015/16) In the two plus years I have been windows-less. My System is primarily gaming pc/light office work that has never had Win10 or even Win 7 installed.

Installed I have used a form of Arch Linux (antergos for almost all two years, Vanilla Arch with KDE for about a month, Ubuntuu with it's stock Desktop Environment followed by what I am using now Manjaro, with a KDE desktop.

That's the most important thing. No matter what Linux "Distro" pair it with KDE as your Desktop Environment. Ubuntuu does use it, I do not think Mint does, Manjaro's KDE is very user friendly despite me logging in to ask for some technical help. I will have a screen cap to share in that post and I will try and follow up here to either share that one or just up load what my current desktop looks like.
 
Old 11-10-2019, 08:49 PM   #6
Soadyheid
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Quote:
I like a Windows icon based system not command line.
Most current Linux distributions; Ubuntu, Mint, Puppy, Fedora, etc, come with a "Windows & icon" based system known as a Desktop Manager. Linux has several Desktop Managers; Gnome, KDE, XFE, etc, unlike MS Windows which gives you a choice of one.

For some reason new users seem to think Linux uses only the command line which is a bit frightening. Not so much these days, you can do most things with the usual "point and click", the command line is available as a very powerful alternative if you have to lift the hood and get your hands dirty. It's not compulsory, just very useful when you need it.

My

Play Bonny!

 
Old 11-10-2019, 09:34 PM   #7
BW-userx
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as I was going to say like the last post above me said, Linux is not a command line driven OS. Yes the command line can be very useful tool in getting things done. but too it still has the same mouse point and click and the short cuts , ctrl + c ctrl+x ctrl+v are the same in Windows, menu options are basically the same format, you will find there is some standardizations between OSes.

Mate, some arch knock offs, artix, manjaro, etc.. have GUI driven software update system. Ubunutu --- no comment-- besides I don't like it --

there are times I prefer the command line over point and click. one still can use the command line In windows to, that's why they have not gotten rid of the dos box.

the terminal is not something one should set there mind to being scared of, but rather embrace the ideology about it.
 
Old 11-10-2019, 10:49 PM   #8
Firerat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BW-userx View Post
it still has the same mouse point and click and the short cuts , ctrl + c ctrl+x ctrl+v are the same in Windows,
just thought I would throw this tip out there.

in the GUI ctrl+c,v do indeed copy/paste

however, on the command line in a terminal ctrl+c and v do very different things

ctrl+c sends a SIGINT ( interrupt signal ) basically it quits the running program

ctrl+v is a little more fun, lets say you wanted to echo a tab

Code:
echo "foo<ctrl+v><tab>bar"
or a carriage return
Code:
echo "foobar<crtl+v><enter>FOO"
not all that practical, but at least you get an idea of why ctrl+v is not behaving as you would expect

to get a copy/paste you have to add shift
ctrl+shift+c and v
which can be a little quicker than right click
but middle click is often faster for pasting last selected text
Note, the middle click paste buffer does not usually make it to a clipboard manager, hence Ctrl+Shift+c / right click / metakey->DownArrowKey

and if you don't have a middle mouse button, simultaneous left/right click usually emulates one ( but can be hit and miss, especially on my aged laptop with worn out buttons, two finger tap can also be a bit hit and miss.

MetaKey? I'm not sure that is its proper name, I find mine below the Right Shift, left of RightCtrl
Just press the keys you have always wondered about until context menu pops up.


My other tip, get familiar with at least one command line text editor
( just in case you break something and can't get back into GUI )
nano is probably the easiest to learn/use
vim ( my editor of preference ) has a steep learning curve
vimtutor can help getting you started

Escape Meta Alt Control Shift ( emacs for short )
I can't use emacs, I did try but since I had already been using vi I just couldn't get use to it.

but don't worry too much, nano is fine
however, if you do a lot of text editing emacs or vim is the way to go.
<Esc>ZZ
 
Old 11-10-2019, 11:36 PM   #9
ondoho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beckrow View Post
I like a Windows icon based system not command line.
Yes yes, GNU/Linux and its users have arrived in the 21st century - we all use "a Windows icon based system" but I can understand how one could get a different impression from reading the forums.

Quote:
And where do I find all of these things to install?
I think distro-wise you have been pointed in the right direction already, but nobody addressed this.
Software installation works differently on Linux. Do NOT install "things" from the wild web.
 
Old 11-11-2019, 06:16 AM   #10
Soadyheid
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I'll add the "Oldie but Goodie" Linux is NOT Windows link which, though written waaaay back in 2006, is still pretty much valid though you may notice some of the references, Windows XP, etc are now a bit dated.

Still worth a read!

Play Bonny!

 
Old 11-11-2019, 08:02 AM   #11
BW-userx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Firerat View Post
just thought I would throw this tip out there.

in the GUI ctrl+c,v do indeed copy/paste

however, on the command line in a terminal ctrl+c and v do very different things

ctrl+c sends a SIGINT ( interrupt signal ) basically it quits the running program

ctrl+v is a little more fun, lets say you wanted to echo a tab

Code:
echo "foo<ctrl+v><tab>bar"
or a carriage return
Code:
echo "foobar<crtl+v><enter>FOO"
not all that practical, but at least you get an idea of why ctrl+v is not behaving as you would expect

to get a copy/paste you have to add shift
ctrl+shift+c and v
which can be a little quicker than right click
but middle click is often faster for pasting last selected text
Note, the middle click paste buffer does not usually make it to a clipboard manager, hence Ctrl+Shift+c / right click / metakey->DownArrowKey

and if you don't have a middle mouse button, simultaneous left/right click usually emulates one ( but can be hit and miss, especially on my aged laptop with worn out buttons, two finger tap can also be a bit hit and miss.

MetaKey? I'm not sure that is its proper name, I find mine below the Right Shift, left of RightCtrl
Just press the keys you have always wondered about until context menu pops up.


My other tip, get familiar with at least one command line text editor
( just in case you break something and can't get back into GUI )
nano is probably the easiest to learn/use
vim ( my editor of preference ) has a steep learning curve
vimtutor can help getting you started

Escape Meta Alt Control Shift ( emacs for short )
I can't use emacs, I did try but since I had already been using vi I just couldn't get use to it.

but don't worry too much, nano is fine
however, if you do a lot of text editing emacs or vim is the way to go.
<Esc>ZZ
was not talking about terminal,but yes you need to add the shift+ctrl+c or c .. but I use mostly select and middle mouse button to paste text into somewhere else when using a terminal or if xfce4-terminal I'll at times use mouse select test, right click select copy, then paste it into somewhere else.

I was just trying to point out some of the similarities not the details. You're getting too far into the details, Which may confuse them and or scare them away. as you too mentioned the learning curve, just like one has a learning curve with there first experience with Windows, but they seem not to remember it.

they just accept that it is windows and this is what a computer is and get on with it, then they hear about some other OS perhaps on the same computer and find out it is Linux then think I want to try that one, but step back becaue they too think they need more then a Masters in Computer Science and some kind of degree in hacking before they can even lay there fingers on a keyboard that has Linux installed as the OS.

They get all kinds of leery and or scared about it. Where if it would had been there first OS. I wonder if they'd be putting themselves through the same mental anxieties if they then had to switch to Windows.

everything has a learning curve, because everything is learned behavior. Minus what little instinct humans have.

Last edited by BW-userx; 11-11-2019 at 08:08 AM.
 
Old 11-11-2019, 08:46 AM   #12
hazel
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For people of our age, Linux is an ideal system. It runs fast on fairly old hardware, it is secure against most of the malware out there on the net, and you can get it for free. But best of all, it's easy to understand how it works. With Linux, you never have to ask, "What is the darned machine up to now?".
 
Old 11-11-2019, 11:44 AM   #13
beachboy2
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Beckrow,

Welcome to LQ forums.

There is some basic information on the transition from Windows to Linux on this blog which contains some excellent “Explaining Computers” videos and several useful links:

https://www.linuxquestions.org/quest...ossible-38100/

Firerat has already given you suggestions on a dual-boot arrangement.
 
Old 11-12-2019, 09:29 AM   #14
Beckrow
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Nervous about the install routine

Thanks for all the replies yesterday. It will take some time to follow all the links and to do a ton of research. I have tried to Google the following problem and look on the forums, but can't find an answer.

In the meantime I need a system to play with to help me learn. To start with I looked at the all the Ubuntu flavors and decided to just go with a basic gnome install to be able to practice. Unfortunately, having created a bootable usb with ubuntu gnome 18.04 LTS (which I have booted from and looked at without installing) Here is what I am trying to do:

I have a new 500GB SSD running Windows 10.

I also have my old 120GB drive which I want to use to install Ubuntu and dual boot with Windows.

Does the 120GB drive need to be reformatted from NTFS to FAT32?

I have tried to install with both drives NTFS, but I do not understand the install process as follows:

I started the install process steps from the following link: https://tutorials.ubuntu.com/tutoria...untu-desktop#5
I get stuck at step 6 and am afraid to proceed.

At step 6 the install informs me that there is no operating system installed (so it can't see my Windows on drive C and it talks about sda, vda, ext4 etc instead of my Windows designations of drives C: (500GB) and E: (120GB). As a result I have no idea which disc the installer is referencing and am afraid to
proceed any further. I don't want to accidentally wipe out Windows at this point in time.

At what point is the dual boot utility (Grub?) set up? Is this after the install?

Sorry to ask someone to reinvent the wheel.
 
Old 11-12-2019, 09:56 AM   #15
hazel
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I'll try to answer some of those questions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beckrow View Post
In the meantime I need a system to play with to help me learn. To start with I looked at the all the Ubuntu flavors and decided to just go with a basic gnome install to be able to practice.
Actually I wouldn't recommend Ubuntu as a learning distro. In their efforts to make it user-friendly, they have concealed a lot of the system from users. Something more mainline perhaps like Debian? Other people will have other suggestions.
Quote:
I have a new 500GB SSD running Windows 10. I also have my old 120GB drive which I want to use to install Ubuntu and dual boot with Windows.

Does the 120GB drive need to be reformatted from NTFS to FAT32?
If you already have Windows on the new drive, no need to put it on the old one. Your old drive should be split into several purely Linux partitions for your new systems. Most installer programs will do this for you; you tell them what drive you want to install on, the installer checks that the drive is empty, then partitions it and creates Linux filesystems on the partitions. They will be ext4, not FAT. The only people who need a FAT partition on a Linux computer are those with modern computers that have UEFI chips instead of BIOSes.
Quote:
At step 6 the install informs me that there is no operating system installed (so it can't see my Windows on drive C:) and it talks about sda, vda, ext4 etc instead of my Windows designations of drives C: (500GB) and E: (120GB). As a result I have no idea which disc the installer is referencing and am afraid to proceed any further. I don't want to accidentally wipe out Windows at this point in time.
OK. sda and sdb are your drives. You need to check which of these is your empty one before you start installing! You have a live Ubuntu system on that CD, so there are plenty of ways to double check your drives. We'll get to that later. Since drives are very large these days, each drive can be (and really should be) divided into partitions. Those on the sda drive would be called sda1, sda2 and so on. Any of these could correspond to a Windows designation like C:. But earlier versions of Windows generally didn't subdivide drives, so the whole drive might be C: on your machine..

vda means nothing. I think you must have mis-typed that. ext4 is the name of a filesystem type (like FAT). It is the type of filesystem that most Linux distros use.
Quote:
At what point is the dual boot utility (Grub?) set up? Is this after the install?
It's usually right at the end, the last step in the install.

Last edited by hazel; 11-12-2019 at 10:09 AM.
 
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