Simulated Surround Sound

Total2Blue · 08-23-2012, 02:24 AM

Simulated Surround Sound

Ok, Trying to get my sound set up to the way it worked in Windows 7. I am running LM13 Cinnamon on an Acer AM5200 which comes with an onboard Realtek ALC1200 7.1 surround sound setup. I am using 5.1 surround speakers. I have gotten all the speakers to work in that it will play a 6 channel audio file properly, and it mirrors the front and back speakers when I play a 2 channel mp3. What I would like to do though, instead of mirroring the front speakers onto the back ones, I want to make it sound like it was a 6 channel sound file, with voice from the center speaker and music from the other 4 speakers. In Windows 7, after installing the Realtek drivers, it allowed you to simulate the 6 channel sound with a 2 channel sound file.

Can anyone tell me how to do this in LM13? I am still a Linux newbie, so please try not to be too technical.

Thanks

aus9 · 08-24-2012, 05:35 AM

hi

I am not a newbie so forgive the questions

1) Do you want 5.1 to be the permanent setting or do you want to be able to change settings on-the-fly
---leaping ahead your choices are

a) change using root powers a configuration text file to be modified called /etc/modprobe.d/alsa-base.conf
b) Create a local user (non-root) /home/yourname/.asoundrc text file with a certain setting or
c) Install and configure a gui sound server
---the one I am thinking of is called pulseaudio and you need to know the root password to install it.

2) In the meantime can you post the output of some commands you can do as a local (non-root ) user

eg

Code:

lspci -v .....and copy and paste just the sound stuff pls
I provide my example so you know what I am looking at...the hardware and the kernel module

aplay -l

aplay -L

cat /proc/asound/card0/codec#0 | grep Codec 

dpkg -l | grep pulse*......to see if its already installed...the full program not only the libpulse stuff


-----my example
00:1b.0 Audio device: Intel Corporation N10/ICH 7 Family High Definition Audio Controller (rev 01)
	Subsystem: Elitegroup Computer Systems Device 2633
	Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 0, IRQ 40
	Memory at f9ffc000 (64-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=16K]
	Capabilities: <access denied>
	Kernel driver in use: snd_hda_intel

Total2Blue · 08-24-2012, 07:23 AM

Hi,

Thanks for responding. If you're willing to try and help, I have no problem answering questions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aus9

1) Do you want 5.1 to be the permanent setting or do you want to be able to change settings on-the-fly
---leaping ahead your choices are

a) change using root powers a configuration text file to be modified called /etc/modprobe.d/alsa-base.conf
b) Create a local user (non-root) /home/yourname/.asoundrc text file with a certain setting or
c) Install and configure a gui sound server
---the one I am thinking of is called pulseaudio and you need to know the root password to install it.

It would be nice to change settings on the fly, however if I have to set it as permanent, I can live with that as well.

a) I haven't looked at this file. In all my researching on this issue, I had not seen any mentions of using this method.
b) I did try creating a .soundrc file in my home directory, with directions I had found elsewhere (sorry, don't have them anymore), but I did not notice any difference
c) I have pulseaudio installed and am using it

Quote:

2) In the meantime can you post the output of some commands you can do as a local (non-root ) user

Code:

lspci -v

00:14.2 Audio device: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] nee ATI SBx00 Azalia (Intel HDA)
	Subsystem: Acer Incorporated [ALI] Device 014e
	Flags: bus master, slow devsel, latency 64, IRQ 16
	Memory at fe8f4000 (64-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=16K]
	Capabilities: <access denied>
	Kernel driver in use: snd_hda_intel
	Kernel modules: snd-hda-intel


aplay -l

**** List of PLAYBACK Hardware Devices ****

card 0: SB [HDA ATI SB], device 0: ALC1200 Analog [ALC1200 Analog]
  Subdevices: 1/1
  Subdevice #0: subdevice #0
card 0: SB [HDA ATI SB], device 1: ALC1200 Digital [ALC1200 Digital]
  Subdevices: 1/1
  Subdevice #0: subdevice #0
card 1: HDMI [HDA ATI HDMI], device 3: HDMI 0 [HDMI 0]
  Subdevices: 1/1
  Subdevice #0: subdevice #0

(NOTE - The HDMI has been manually disabled in Sound Settings)

aplay -L

default
    Playback/recording through the PulseAudio sound server
sysdefault:CARD=SB
    HDA ATI SB, ALC1200 Analog
    Default Audio Device
front:CARD=SB,DEV=0
    HDA ATI SB, ALC1200 Analog
    Front speakers
surround40:CARD=SB,DEV=0
    HDA ATI SB, ALC1200 Analog
    4.0 Surround output to Front and Rear speakers
surround41:CARD=SB,DEV=0
    HDA ATI SB, ALC1200 Analog
    4.1 Surround output to Front, Rear and Subwoofer speakers
surround50:CARD=SB,DEV=0
    HDA ATI SB, ALC1200 Analog
    5.0 Surround output to Front, Center and Rear speakers
surround51:CARD=SB,DEV=0
    HDA ATI SB, ALC1200 Analog
    5.1 Surround output to Front, Center, Rear and Subwoofer speakers
surround71:CARD=SB,DEV=0
    HDA ATI SB, ALC1200 Analog
    7.1 Surround output to Front, Center, Side, Rear and Woofer speakers
iec958:CARD=SB,DEV=0
    HDA ATI SB, ALC1200 Digital
    IEC958 (S/PDIF) Digital Audio Output
dmix:CARD=SB,DEV=0
    HDA ATI SB, ALC1200 Analog
    Direct sample mixing device
dmix:CARD=SB,DEV=1
    HDA ATI SB, ALC1200 Digital
    Direct sample mixing device
dsnoop:CARD=SB,DEV=0
    HDA ATI SB, ALC1200 Analog
    Direct sample snooping device
dsnoop:CARD=SB,DEV=1
    HDA ATI SB, ALC1200 Digital
    Direct sample snooping device
hw:CARD=SB,DEV=0
    HDA ATI SB, ALC1200 Analog
    Direct hardware device without any conversions
hw:CARD=SB,DEV=1
    HDA ATI SB, ALC1200 Digital
    Direct hardware device without any conversions
plughw:CARD=SB,DEV=0
    HDA ATI SB, ALC1200 Analog
    Hardware device with all software conversions
plughw:CARD=SB,DEV=1
    HDA ATI SB, ALC1200 Digital
    Hardware device with all software conversions
hdmi:CARD=HDMI,DEV=0
    HDA ATI HDMI, HDMI 0
    HDMI Audio Output
dmix:CARD=HDMI,DEV=3
    HDA ATI HDMI, HDMI 0
    Direct sample mixing device
dsnoop:CARD=HDMI,DEV=3
    HDA ATI HDMI, HDMI 0
    Direct sample snooping device
hw:CARD=HDMI,DEV=3
    HDA ATI HDMI, HDMI 0
    Direct hardware device without any conversions
plughw:CARD=HDMI,DEV=3
    HDA ATI HDMI, HDMI 0
    Hardware device with all software conversions

cat /proc/asound/card0/codec#0 | grep Codec 

Codec: Realtek ALC1200


dpkg -l | grep pulse*

ii  gstreamer0.10-pulseaudio                                    0.10.31-1ubuntu1                        GStreamer plugin for PulseAudio
ii  libcanberra-pulse                                           0.28-3ubuntu3                           PulseAudio backend for libcanberra
ii  libpulse-mainloop-glib0                                     1:1.1-0ubuntu15.1                       PulseAudio client libraries (glib support)
ii  libpulse0                                                   1:1.1-0ubuntu15.1                       PulseAudio client libraries
ii  libpulsedsp                                                 1:1.1-0ubuntu15.1                       PulseAudio OSS pre-load library
ii  pulseaudio                                                  1:1.1-0ubuntu15.1                       PulseAudio sound server
ii  pulseaudio-module-bluetooth                                 1:1.1-0ubuntu15.1                       Bluetooth module for PulseAudio sound server
ii  pulseaudio-module-gconf                                     1:1.1-0ubuntu15.1                       GConf module for PulseAudio sound server
ii  pulseaudio-module-x11                                       1:1.1-0ubuntu15.1                       X11 module for PulseAudio sound server
ii  pulseaudio-module-zeroconf                                  1:1.1-0ubuntu15.1                       Zeroconf module for PulseAudio sound server
ii  pulseaudio-utils                                            1:1.1-0ubuntu15.1                       Command line tools for the PulseAudio sound server
ii  vlc-plugin-pulse                                            2.0.3-0ubuntu0.12.04.1                  PulseAudio plugin for VLC

aus9 · 08-24-2012, 07:03 PM

ok you seem to have pulseaudio (=PA) already installed

ummm I don't use it but tried it in the past

1) I don't use LM but can you check that you have all the pulse packages installed either use your packagemanager
or do it by single line commands replacing each packagename with the following pls

padevchooser
paman
pavucontrol
pavumeter
paprefs

Code:

dpkg -l | grep packagename

2) now its important that if you already have PA installed it is correctly set

this means if you have multiple users....there should be no /etc/asoundrc and each user has their own .asoundrc
if you have only yourself as user you can choose
but its safer to keep the etc file so you don't accidently delete the local user file

Notice that system wide filename differs from local user

leaping ahead I will show the contents of /etc/asoundrc

Quote:

pcm.pulse {
type pulse
}
ctl.pulse {
type pulse
}
pcm.!default {
type pulse
}
ctl.!default {
type pulse
}

post your contents....so you can recover them if I have made a mistake eh?

3) now you have 2 cards with the second one with hdmi outputs

why did you disable it?....is it because you don't have a cable input to your speaker system?

if you want to use it....we can set it in PA or by other ways...but I can't do anything until I know which way
you want to go.

Leaping ahead assuming you prefer card 0

here is a home user .asoundrc to try

Quote:

pcm.!default {
type plug
slave.pcm “surround51″
slave.channels 6
route_policy duplicate
}

Total2Blue · 08-25-2012, 03:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aus9

ok you seem to have pulseaudio (=PA) already installed

1) I don't use LM but can you check that you have all the pulse packages installed either use your packagemanager
or do it by single line commands replacing each packagename with the following pls

padevchooser

All packages but this one are installed. After doing some checking, I found that it's been deprecated by pavucontrol and is no longer included as part of the packages.

Quote:

leaping ahead I will show the contents of /etc/asoundrc
post your contents....so you can recover them if I have made a mistake eh?

I don't have a /myhome/.soundrc file nor a /etc/asoundrc file. I did some more checking and found this at alsa.opensrc.org/.asoundrc site;

Code:

 Warning

Neither .asoundrc or /etc/asound.conf is normally required. You should be able to play and record sound without either (assuming your mic and speakers are hooked up properly). If your system won't work without one, and you are running the most current version of ALSA, you probably should file a bug report.

Quote:

3) now you have 2 cards with the second one with hdmi outputs

why did you disable it?....is it because you don't have a cable input to your speaker system?

When I first set up Linux Mint 13, I was having a problem with getting the sound working, and as I don't use the HDMI (my stereo is in another room connected to my laptop using HDMI through Linux Mint 13), I disabled it. This was before I realized I had to set the analog 5.1 card to "Analog Surround 5.1 Output" under Hardware in Sound Settings). Since I don't use it, I didn't bother re-enabling it once I got all the speakers working. Things would be simpler if I was using the HDMI on my desktop to output sound. On my laptop, even though the HDMI port registers as "Digital Stereo" and only shows two channels, not only do true 5.1 movie and sound files play in 5.1 surround, any stero mp3 music I play through the HDMI on my laptop plays in 5.1 surround as well.

Quote:

Leaping ahead assuming you prefer card 0

Yes, that is correct.

Quote:

here is a home user .asoundrc to try

I tried putting this in my home directory and restarting my system but did not notice any change in my sound.

aus9 · 08-25-2012, 06:46 PM

1) good research as I don't use PA
2) I assume you made a typo its.../home/yourname/.asoundrc ...no need to reply...I am just anal
b) then create using root powers the system wide /etc/asoundrc
3) your research on asoundrc is correct ONLY if we assume you are not using PA
---rant starts
---alsa is a backend...the real stuff
----PA is frontend....sometimes nice to newbies ---end of rant
4) HDMI ----good ok ....remove your home .asoundrc file reboot with a etc file pls and report

Leaping ahead do you know how to take snapshots?
do you have your own image hosting upload site?
---we may need to see snapshots of your PA controls or guis

5) is there a LM wiki on PA?

cascade9 · 08-26-2012, 03:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Total2Blue

What I would like to do though, instead of mirroring the front speakers onto the back ones, I want to make it sound like it was a 6 channel sound file, with voice from the center speaker and music from the other 4 speakers. In Windows 7, after installing the Realtek drivers, it allowed you to simulate the 6 channel sound with a 2 channel sound file.

That is done from the windows drivers....AFAIK realtek have never made that option avaible with the drivers they have released for linux.

Total2Blue · 08-26-2012, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aus9

b) then create using root powers the system wide /etc/asoundrc

I have tried this, and still no luck. First, I used the one you suggested above, which had no effect. Not meaning to sound like a smart arse here, and if I do I apologize as I do recognize you are way more experienced than me on this and I appreciate you trying to help me out here, however, two things stick out to me on this one statement, and please correct me if I am wrong. You said to name the /etc/ file asoundrc yet the documentation I have read, which includes the alsa.conf in /usr/share/alsa say the file should named asound.conf. I did, however, try it both ways, and it had no effect. The other thing I wanted to mention was the /etc/asoundrc file you said to use, was how Pulse was previously made to work with Alsa. This is now the default, which is why I did not have the file already there. I did try creating the file as you asked me to though.

I had also seen suggested elsewhere to use;

Code:

pcm.ch51dup {
    type route
    slave.pcm surround51
    slave.channels 6
    ttable.0.0 1
    ttable.1.1 1
    ttable.0.2 1
    ttable.1.3 1
    ttable.0.4 0.5
    ttable.1.4 0.5
    ttable.0.5 0.5
    ttable.1.5 0.5
}

I tried this in both the /home/myhome/.asoundrc as well as /etc/asoundrc (and /etc/asound.conf) but it also did not seem to make a difference.

Quote:

3) your research on asoundrc is correct ONLY if we assume you are not using PA
---rant starts
---alsa is a backend...the real stuff
----PA is frontend....sometimes nice to newbies ---end of rant

I do recognize that when it comes to Linux, I am definately a newbie, and really do appreciate you helping me here. I know that PA is a front end that uses ALSA as the back end, so would have thought that anything done to affect ALSA would by default, affect PA. Again, I could be totally wrong on thiis.

Quote:

4) HDMI ----good ok ....remove your home .asoundrc file reboot with a etc file pls and report

As stated above, no effect.

Quote:

Leaping ahead do you know how to take snapshots?
do you have your own image hosting upload site?
---we may need to see snapshots of your PA controls or guis

I don't currently know how to do snapshots, but can research it and learn how. As for the upload sites, I run a few websites where I can host them at, so that is not an issue. I can also use Pastebin if I needed to.

Quote:

5) is there a LM wiki on PA?

No, there is not. While checking, I did however, find a tutotrial on how to do a screenshot and save it as a png file. Is that what you mean by a snapshot?

Let me know what you would like to see, and I will provide it.

Total2Blue · 08-26-2012, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cascade9

That is done from the windows drivers....AFAIK realtek have never made that option avaible with the drivers they have released for linux.

I can't even get the Realtek Linux drivers to work. I had tried installing them a while ago, and had to do a complete reinstall to get sound back. yesterday, I fired up my Live DVD version of Linux Mint 13 and installed the newest Realtek Linux drivers I got from on the Realtek page, but it had killed Alsamixer, which is what the problem was that I had with them before. Now they did mention something about making sure the Developer Tools was installed, which I admit, I ignored as (1) I didn't know which tools they were referring to and (2) I wasn't sure if they applied as I was installing as an end user, not to use in development of sound products.

I am pretty sure it has to be possible to get what I want to do done though. After much playing around, I have mostly figured out how to get mplayer to do it from the command line with the command:

Code:

mplayer -ao alsa -af surround=25,sub=75:5,center=4,delay=10.5:10.5:0:0:7:0 -channels 6 1.mp3

That's still not perfect as the voices still come out through the left and right front as well as center, but the voice is muted from the rear speakers however, music is still heard from them. 1.mp3 is a live band recording, and when started, the audience could be heard coming from the rear speakers. One thing I did notice using the above is that it seems to dull the volume of the music that is playing.

Now, I know mplayer is not ALSA or Pulse, but it is something positive. Now if we can get it so that Banshee or Amarok will play mp3 files in 5.1, I will be really happy.

aus9 · 08-26-2012, 06:48 PM

well maybe debian is different so try this pls

http://drona.csa.iisc.ernet.in/~uday...nd-pulse.shtml

we are looking at this file.../etc/pulse/daemon.conf

2) leaping ahead azalia and google search shows there appears to be some issues
b) also I was going to give you an alsa config file....ignoring PA to set your model=string but
your codec does not appear in my alsa base model list for intel......damn

3) if you still have trouble ....yes take screenshots of your gui and post links
below is an example only of embedded screenshots but don't get excited its not your codec of alc1200

Total2Blue · 08-26-2012, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aus9

well maybe debian is different so try this pls

http://drona.csa.iisc.ernet.in/~uday...nd-pulse.shtml

we are looking at this file.../etc/pulse/daemon.conf

I had already tried this, and tried again when you suggested it. default-sample-channels = 6 seems to be the default in LM13.

Quote:

2) leaping ahead azalia and google search shows there appears to be some issues
b) also I was going to give you an alsa config file....ignoring PA to set your model=string but
your codec does not appear in my alsa base model list for intel......damn

Looking at Paman, I see that the version of PA I am running is 1.1. Looking at http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Soft...udio/Notes/2.0, I see that they have a version 2 out now, and one of the new things in it is a Virtual Surround module. I'm not sure if it will do what I am wanting, as I have been unable to find anything stating exactly what this does, but it might be worth me checking out.

Quote:

3) if you still have trouble ....yes take screenshots of your gui and post links
below is an example only of embedded screenshots but don't get excited its not your codec of alc1200

Do you think it might be work trying out version 2 and see where that leads? If it doesn't work, I can always purge it and reinstall 1.1 and continue trying to get that one to do what I want.

I do want to say thank you taking time out of your schedule to try and help out this newbie. It has been very much appreciated.

aus9 · 08-27-2012, 07:02 PM

a) feel free to post to LM forums as I am not a LM expert ok so feel free to cut me loose anytime

LM13 well I guess Cinnamon is a graphical stuff hmm yes well something funny there ...trivia below

hang on if LM13=maya I can't even see it....PA.... as a default package?
http://packages.linuxmint.com/list.php?release=Maya

and Maya is not listed in my repository...so must be a code name for 13?
http://mirror.internode.on.net/pub/linuxmint/stable/13/

b)
eek, LM13 has 1.1? and version 2 came out May 2012
http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/PulseAudio
----------------------------------------------------------

Now that has got me thinking so bear with me.

You say you are a newbie...yet you know how to google and research

umm so I think you can upgrade to 2 version but before you do, I will post a link to some older packages from Ubuntu in case you need to downgrade

I could not find LM repos so forgive me for using pure Ubuntu

http://mirror.internode.on.net/pub/u.../p/pulseaudio/

if you need to downgrade you would run a dpkg command like this

Code:

sudo dpkg --force-i packagename.deb

but I have never tried it...those distros that have libpulse has a dependency can be a bitch to remove first so your only option
would be to over-write

and I am thinking
---what other distros have your tried?

aus9 · 08-27-2012, 07:50 PM

ok I have given up on PA lets try it with just alsa??

1) we need to stop the PA daemon or service running.

this is a manual test for you to try...if it works we will do a more permanent solution

if LM uses upstart then...open a terminal and run command

service pulseaudio stop

if LM uses init.d services then...open a terminal and run command

sudo /etc/init.d/pulseaudio stop

or try...with a link for how to try other commands to kill PA

pulseaudio --kill

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php...startup_failed

2) next see if you have this folder pls

/usr/share/alsa/alsa.conf.d

if so check if you have this file
/usr/share/alsa/pcm/surround51.conf

use root powers to copy that surrond file and put it into the alsa.conf.d folder

3) now we need to restart alsa

if LM uses upstart try

sudo service alsa-utils restart

if LM uses init.d try

sudo /etc/init.d/alsa-utils restart

4) retest sound is surround pls

5) report if you have no such files/folders or commands fail

only if they fail post the contents of /etc/init.d using command
ls /etc/init.d

not sure where to look for upstart but some distros keep the init.d folder for historical reasons

good luck

aus9 · 08-27-2012, 08:03 PM

now you will notice I am doing separate posts as I am making final efforts to solve this

now if last post did not work we can do something else...but for troubleshooting we need to remember what we have done to undo it

while PA daemon is killed we can do a modprobe command to force alc1200 to try something else

1) SO first we stop alsa with either

Code:

sudo service alsa-utils stop

or 

sudo /etc/init.d/alsa-utils stop

now use root powers to mod your file /etc/modprobe.d/alsa-base-conf....assuming LM has such a file

add a last line to read as

Quote:

options snd-hda-intel model=auto probe_mask=1

save the file

next we restart alsa

Code:

sudo /etc/init.d/alsa-utils start 

(or)

sudo service alsa-utils start

as per http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1159334&page=2

we can not reboot at this stage as PA will restart but you can try it....to see if new alsa-base.conf makes a difference

if no difference you can reverse those changes and restart the daemons or reboot

good luck

Total2Blue · 08-27-2012, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aus9

a) feel free to post to LM forums as I am not a LM expert ok so feel free to cut me loose anytime

Umm, Well I actually tried that before posting here. I did not get any responses to my query there. You may not be an LM expert, but you were at least willing to try and help.

Quote:

LM13 well I guess Cinnamon is a graphical stuff hmm yes well something funny there ...trivia below

hang on if LM13=maya I can't even see it....PA.... as a default package?
http://packages.linuxmint.com/list.php?release=Maya

and Maya is not listed in my repository...so must be a code name for 13?
http://mirror.internode.on.net/pub/linuxmint/stable/13/

Linux Mint 13 - Code name Maya, comes in two flavours, Cinnammon and Mate. While both are built on Gnome 3, Cinnammon is basically what Ubuntu should have looked like if they didn't go with all that Unity stuff. Mate is a Gnome 2 fork. If I understand it correctly, they are trying to provide the Gnome 2 look and feel while utilizing a Gnome 3 base.

Quote:

b)
eek, LM13 has 1.1? and version 2 came out May 2012
http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/PulseAudio

Yes, I was noting that yesterday myself.
------------------

Quote:

You say you are a newbie...yet you know how to google and research

To clear it up, I am a Linux newbie, not a computer newbie. I do know my way around standard Windows based computers and DOS ones before that. While I started in the DOS days, I could never get into Linux back then. It's only been lately that I have taken a real active interest in it, switched to it and started learning it.

Quote:

umm so I think you can upgrade to 2 version but before you do, I will post a link to some older packages from Ubuntu in case you need to downgrade

That what I need, thanks.

Quote:

I could not find LM repos so forgive me for using pure Ubuntu

LM mostly uses the Ubuntu repos, so no problem.

Quote:

but I have never tried it...those distros that have libpulse has a dependency can be a bitch to remove first so your only option
would be to over-write

If I have to, I can over-write, but I hope I won't have to.

Quote:

---what other distros have your tried?

I've played with PCLOS in a Virtualbox, as well as Lubuntu and Netrunner. I've done a cursory look at others like Magela and Opensuse, but when I could not see a way to easily install my printer (see below) , I moved on. I ended up going with LM13 as it seemed easier to use for someone like me that was used to Windows and it has gotten a lot of positve reviews on Distrowatch and other online sites. I am open to looking at other distros, however there are two things I have to keep in mind. One, is that there is another person that uses my computer. For him, it just needs to a gui so he can access Firefox, look at pictures or listen to music. The other thing, which is more of the major one, is being able to set my printer up on it. I have a Wireless Canon MX350, which is not included in the standard linux printer drivers, so I had to do a lot of searching to get it set up. I was finally able to do it by using a Ubuntu PPA which was aimed at non standard printers. I had to learn learn a little about CUPS to do it though, and this is a drawback in Ubuntu and Linux Mint. In Windows, I would go into Control Panel (or Settings in LM13), load Printers and add my printer. That doesn't work in Ubuntu and LM13. If you try to add a printer via Settings, you get a "cannot find firewall" and some other errors. To set up a printer, you have to use the web browser to access CUPS, and add the printer through there.

The point of that rant is twofold. One is that even though it looks Windows user friendly, it is not the same as Windows and two, I am not adverse to playing around and trying out things.