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Old 10-29-2007, 04:28 PM   #31
ColonelPanic
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After testing a bit I came across some weird behaviour. Without having changed anything in my 7.10 install I did a suspend from the regular Gnome shutdown menu. It worked properly. It would turn everything off and when I hit the power button the machine would pick up where it left. Then I did a shutdown and the machine powered off properly.

I rebooted and tried to shut down but that would make the machine freeze again.

Then I tried the same procedure as described above and it worked.

So after suspending and waking up the machine it powers off properly.
Weird...
 
Old 10-29-2007, 08:33 PM   #32
Simon Bridge
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This is a reoccurring problem...
https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/43961
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+s....15/+bug/36158
 
Old 10-30-2007, 08:52 AM   #33
ColonelPanic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Bridge View Post
There are even more reports like that. Some are even marked as expired. As this is a newbie forum it would be nice if someone could shed some light on the procedure regarding bug fixes.
What is the consequence of the countless user posts reporting this problem?
Who does what now to fix this? How will users know that there is a fix, if any?
I am unable to find any clear instructions how to apply a patch for this problem. Actually I'm unable to find the patch in a first place.
Is this the site where we have to keep checking back?
http://packages.ubuntu.com/gutsy/

I'm utterly confused and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

thx
 
Old 10-30-2007, 04:17 PM   #34
nooby
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Yes it is very frustrating that they care more about doing cubes in 3D than to allow us to shut down properly.

Here is my latest extreme wild long shot at our problem.

What about Unix and the FreeBSD version of Unix. Linux too is a version of Unix???

Should we ask the FreeBSD folks if they have been more successful in finding out how to shut down properly?

http://www.freebsd.org/relnotes/CURR...386/index.html

Most likely there are better sites or wikipedia to read about if they have the same shutdown problem as the current Linux kernel have.

ColonelPanic, that was a clever workaround. Could help many to not lose vital data. If one shut down when it still is ending things in progress one could loose MBR and such. Some have told of them having to start all over doing new install of Windows cause the shutdown problem made a corrupt MBR.

Not something me as a newbie look forward to.

Today I have a working WUBI installation of Ubuntu 7.04 at an older computer so on that one there is no shutdown problem so far.

Last time if I updated the problem started. So I will not update that 7.04 program. I will use that machine to learn Linux which is a slow learn curve will take years.

So most likely this could be my last post here me finding a computer without that problem.

HP Compac Desktop D230M from 2003 or thereabout.

Last edited by nooby; 10-30-2007 at 04:23 PM.
 
Old 10-31-2007, 11:40 AM   #35
Simon Bridge
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Quote:
If some guru can tell us what it is that makes a system shut down properly - ie the files that control it - couldn't you just copy those files from another distro to Ubuntu and off you go?
Ubuntu uses a different system to manage processes to many other linuxes - upstart - the familiar ideas about runlevels etc don't apply. This is probably why the issue seems distro specific. (But there are also many bug reports with same symptoms, but across several distros...) It is also why copying files across won't work.

You could try shutting down with telinit 0

The trouble with troubleshooting this sort of thing is that it is also HW specific... I'd have to actually get hold of your machine to have much chance of figuring it out. There are also a great deal of things that could be causing the problem... so it is possible that everyone responding to this thread has a different problem.

Please don't go round assuming simplicity in a solution unless you are prepared to come up with code yourself. (Even half-baked would be a start.)

Shutdown problems can be:
1. firmware - dsdt et al.
1.a poorly configured firmware (nvram)
2. kernel/acpi/APM
3. the shutdown process in upstart
4. a conflict with proprietory HW
5. faulty/worn out HW
6. buggy power switch
... and on it goes.

OP machine is reported to shut down in gentoo. The bios is vendor-pwned... so changing distro seems a good idea there.

Normally #2 would be the focus here.

ColonelPanic's box is intel based, but I haven't seen anything about alternative boot options to investigate kernel settings.

acpi=off?
acpi=force?

Does the shutdown work from a non graphical login?
But the best support advise, without sitting in front of your computer, is to use mandriva.
 
Old 10-31-2007, 06:34 PM   #36
nooby
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Simon Bridge, thanks indeed that you care about us.

Hope ColonelPanic and others could be helped by your suggestions. Sure I could try out Mandriva. I'm not locked to using Ubuntu at all. Maybe I try it out sometime. I've done a compromise now. I have a Fiesty Fawn 7.04 on my older computer HPD230M so I am happy that that one do have HW that is compatible with Linux. My AOpen XC Cube Mini with Intel 915 chips set doesn't seems to be compatible, I should look in their Support and Download in case they have noticed our complaints about lack of compatibility but I my experience with downloading fixes does not make me motivated. I usually screw up.

I did defrag three times on the HP D230 and still the Ubuntu partitioner failed to make resizing of the NTFC so it could make room for the Linux partition.

I used Wubi instead and that one worked ok on it. I guess the error will appear if I let any prog upgrade. That was what did happen with the AOpen puter.
 
Old 10-31-2007, 07:00 PM   #37
AceofSpades19
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did you turn off the swap file?, that sometimes effects paritioning
 
Old 11-01-2007, 04:08 AM   #38
nooby
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Yes and no. I managed to move it from way up to the right in Win Defrag and now it is far in left field. At least down to 37 of 100 or so while at first it resided up in 73 or so.

so I have 20Giga "white" free space to the right. I've defragged it three times. Some say one need to use a special CD /DVD with a better defrag that prepare the white space better for resizing.

But c'mon! How are we ever to make us newies to switch to Linux if it is this hard?

One solution is to sell the Box with Linux already on it. One guy is doing this in Sweden.

He use the one of Intels many ChipSets but typically don't say which one. My AOpen that failed to Shutdown also had an Intel Chipset 915 so if he use the same then it is something else that cause that problem. I have no tested to do a partitioning on that computer. No use doing it if it has the shutdown error. I could try when next Wubi comes out to see if that change anything. A bit lazy just now when I have a working wubi on the other computer.

We are too few using Linux. To become more the Computer boxes need to ahve Linux on them from scratch so people get used to having it.
 
Old 11-05-2007, 10:23 AM   #39
nooby
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Warning QemuPDL is an emulator not a regular Linux installation.

Quote:
A Portable Linux Operating system that you can bring with you on a USB hard drive, flash pendrive, thumbdrive, flashdrive, ipod, phone or other mobile device.
https://sourceforge.net/project/show...roup_id=197880
or at their homepage.

http://www.pendrivelinux.com/2007/09...pendrivelinux/
Quote:
QemuPDL

The following tutorial allows a user to boot and run
the Portable USB Pendrivelinux compilation (based on Debian)
directly from a folder on a portable USB device, external hard drive, internal hard drive, Ipod, etc…

All without ever restarting your Windows computer.
In addition, the user can install new programs, make changes and save personal files, allowing the operating system and any changes to be optionally restored on the next boot.
I've tested only the "Live option". I don't know what permanent refers to.

If I never reboot then I am still within Windows? So when I end the Linux program I will be still in windows and could shut down using windows?

Or do I fail to get the text? I would love if somebody good at computers could explain what is going on. All the other programs want us to reboot the computer. Not what an internet cafe wants or a public computer at a Library wants. So if you put this one on a USB drive then you don't have to reboot. If I get it.

Nooby.

PS I dearly hope this is not to break any rules.
I am just trying desperately to find a solution to our problem.

Last edited by nooby; 11-06-2007 at 04:51 AM.
 
Old 11-05-2007, 01:16 PM   #40
nooby
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Here is an alternative download page.
https://sourceforge.net/project/show...roup_id=197880

the file is almost 400MB big so you need to have a fast line.

I downloaded it and tried to follow the instructions but being a noob I did wrong first but second time it seems to work.

I wasn't as patient as one have to be so I thought it hanged when it only took a very long time to get going. So let it take its time.

What I failed to do was to activate the networkcard. WAN or LAN? being a noob that si kind of expected.


But here is the important thing. I could end it without loosing windows.

Jay, it worked. No shutdown error appeared.

Now I only have to learn to how I could get the WAN going. This linux seems to be a Debian but I guess Ubuntu is a Debian? So hope it is not too offtopic.

Last edited by nooby; 11-05-2007 at 01:41 PM.
 
Old 11-05-2007, 07:34 PM   #41
Simon Bridge
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Quote:
I did defrag three times on the HP D230 and still the Ubuntu partitioner failed to make resizing of the NTFC so it could make room for the Linux partition.
This sounds like a different topic - this thread is about shutdown problems. Mixing disparate topics in one thread can get confusing for others searching for answers later. Start a new thread. (Or use a different partitioner...)

Quote:
A Portable Linux Operating system that you can bring with you on a USB hard drive, flash pendrive, thumbdrive, flashdrive, ipod, phone or other mobile device.
So is this - fortunately, there are already hundreds of threads on just this problem.
 
Old 11-06-2007, 04:50 AM   #42
nooby
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Simon, your the Guru so I trust you on this.

And I didn't even get that QemuPDL stands for emulator.

It is very different from a regular installation of Linux.

But it could help us who know nothing about linux to at least learn some basic commands and such.

what this emulator does not do is play fast games and do 3D and such more fanzy things.

It maybe fails in other ways too.

But the purpose was to ease the learning curve to transit from windows to linux cause now that Ms has gone over to Vista then the older computers are not good enough.

Sorry me mixing up two subjects. I did it cause I ahve searched in vain for a help with the shut down.

By finding something that do work I could learn Linux without destroying my windows installation.

Last edited by nooby; 11-06-2007 at 04:16 PM.
 
Old 11-06-2007, 05:57 AM   #43
Simon Bridge
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Quote:
Simon, your theGuru so Itrust you on this.
The site assignes a member a title depending on the number of posts that have made. There is another one called "LQ Addict" but "Guru" sounds better. The best way to see if someone has urned their status is to see how other long-term members treat them... look in their profile, and look at past posts and threads. Or just read the argument - the reasons they present for doing what they say.

Quote:
And I didn't even get that QemuPDL stands for emulator.
... well, I failed to look up "Wubi Ubuntu" I thought you were Chinese (wubi is a chinese character input method.)

Quote:
Wubi is an unofficial Ubuntu installer for Windows users that will bring you into the Linux world with a single click. Wubi allows you to install and uninstall Ubuntu as any other application. If you heard about Linux and Ubuntu, if you wanted to try them but you were afraid, this is for you.
... in which case, you cannot expect a well-behaved system.

A more direct method, if you have the bandwidth, is to use the vmware-player and one of the many linux images available for it.

Quote:
what this emulator does not do is paly fast games and do 3D and such more fanzy.
... no, it won't.

Quote:
But the purpose was to ease the learning curve to transit from windows to linux cause now that Ms has gone over to Vista then the older computers are not good enough.
... it is very likely, then, that a proper installation of Ubuntu will work for you.

Ubuntu 7.10 will automagically set up a dual-boot (saves your windows "investment") and offers to migrate your windows settings over as well.

There isn't really much of a learning curve to Ubuntu these days.

Interestingly, the wubi installer is on the 7.10 install disk...

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=427540
... a "no CD" install

http://www.pcmech.com/article/instal...ntu-linux-710/
... video of the install process, with a quickie demo.

http://www.hbclinux.net.nz/ubuntu.html
... short post-install notes - this site is to have user intro and tutorials, but there is a useful links page off that one which should provide most of the answers you seek.

http://ubuntuguide.org/wiki/Ubuntu:Gutsy
... long guide to setting up much anything you want

Last edited by Simon Bridge; 11-06-2007 at 06:18 AM.
 
Old 11-06-2007, 04:26 PM   #44
nooby
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Thanks,

the reason I don't want to do a regular installation with resizing and partitioning is that many users have got their windows non-usable and even the recover CD fails to clear it up.

You need to be much more knowledgeable than I am to trust.

I tried to do that on the HPD230M but it failed. No way to get what the text said in the installer.

You already have to know what to do. the programs are not made for us who are not into the inner workings of it.
 
Old 11-06-2007, 08:03 PM   #45
Simon Bridge
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The linux partitioning tools are now so good that Microsoft recommends using them as an aid to installing Windows. (Admittedly, in the context of removing linux.)

Of course, you could always bite the bullet and just buy a new HDD (you can sometimes get old 30-60GiB HDDs from surplus electronics stores far a couple of bucks)... or install Ubuntu to a usb-key (I got a new 1Gb usb key just yesterday for NZ$30.00).

And, of course, you can go over to using linux all the time. People who dual boot overwhelmingly end up spending so much time with linux that they forget they still have windows. In your case, I suspect the games are holding you to MS... right?

But I should stress, very very few people have lost their windows data to linux installs. Of them, microscopic number were unrecoverable.

In 5 years doing this, I have personally seen one case (Ubuntu 5.10) where a ntfs partition was toasted on install (install also failed), it was recoverable, and 6.06 fixed the problem. I have seen one case of non-recoverable data - from Vista - where the backup data was "protected" by some sort of DRM without the user realizing and the user had deliberately toasted his vista install.

You do not need to know the inner workings of the installer to install Ubuntu. It helps if you know a bit about the internals of your computer and how they are represented though... but think about what you are doing: it's a heart transplant for your computer! Of course you need some technical skill! There is no operating system whose install does not require some technical knowledge. You just don't normally have to do the install step... and, you could have purchased a machine with linux pre-installed too.

But if you are really worried... look online for a LUG in your area. Join. Ask them about an "installfest". Then, some ubergeek will do the install and configuration for you.
 
  


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