Linux Becoming Very Advanced for New Users
 

I am not really that new to linux having started with the eaqrly days of knoppix. I have installed the latest knoppix derivative Kanotix as this is the only one that detected my laptop's hardware.
I am writing this to comment that it is increasingly difficult to get an update of the distro of choice for newbies like me. Now you have to have broadband connection to do that.I cannot afford the cost of a broadband/high speed internet in my country. The alternative is to order the cd but then by the time the cd arrives there will be a new version of the distro.
My suggestion is to go for downloadable updates like many software companies do( in windows mostly). apget is really not practical for me at least.

https://shipit.ubuntu.com/

free cds for ubuntu, i just put it on a laptop and it detected everything, sound,video the works.

It needs tweaking from the get go (running a bit sluggish, but will be better than 1686 optimised arch (this is a P3 laptop).

I understand your position with broadband, i'm one who takes it for granted, but i realise it is not so readily available in other parts of the world :) the simple matter is, for Linux to maintain it's free (as in beer) stance on alot of distros (which does help it get exposure) they have to reduce costs as much as possible, and cd production is fairly costly (especially on smaller scales).

Is there not some sort of government/educational learning facility like a library/college etc that you could download it at and burn to a cd?.

There is also DSL which is about 50MB, would take a while on dial up but no-where near as bad as 700 MB ones.

http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/

I'm not sure how using a download tool for windows differs
from apt-get for debian? You're downloading stuff that is
considered an update in either case.


Cheers,
Tink

I don't understand this.....My perspective is that updating distros is getting EASIER. There are better package managers, and more complete repositories. Some of the package managers are more user-friendly than Windows Update ever was.
Not having a high-speed connection will be limiting with Windows, Linux, and any OS, os that is a different issue.
Finally, once you have something installed, you are not **required** to update it. And you can choose which updates to accept.

Does anyone else spot the irony that DSL (1) is the one distro that doesn't require a DSL (2) internet connection to download it? Or was it a deliberate in-joke by the DSL (1) developers?


(1) DSL: Damn Small Linux.
(2) DSL: Digital Subscriber Line (ie ADSL or SDSL)

Nobody requires an update but everyone will want the latest.Would I stick to knoppix 3.1 then? Windows requires updates what with all the vulnerabilities,etc. But there are magazines that include cds that contain these updates. There are NO linux magazines here in my country!
You said "easier" why can't I have a debian update of Openoffice?
It is all "easier" if you have a high speed connection.

I do have Ubuntu and Kubunto 6.06 but now there is a new Ubuntu 6.06.x. And it does not detect my laptop modem.
DSL is not for me as it does not include at least the kernel headers in order for me to compile my laptop modem drivers.
Yes actually that is where I got my Kanotix but now they have restricted the downloads because of network problems so bye bye for me!

What am I geting at here? I am suggesting that with each new version of distro like DSL there should also be new drivers available for us to download. Kanotix has all I need but it is now beyond my reach. I can get DSL but I need the modem drivers.

From the MS perspective, they love updates, becuase it is how they slip in little gems like Windows Genuine Advantage. How many MS updates add functionality?


I dont' understand. The repositories will have updates---but not necessarily the **very latest**. You can always install the latest directly.

Tell us exactly where you are and someone may have more clever ideas....

I am in Oman

And how is downloading 12MB of windows patches cheaper in Oman than
downloading 12MB of debian patches? I still don't see the point that
you were trying to make in your initial post.



Cheers,
Tink

Please don't generalize,I am not an expert of these.All I do before was to download the whole cd for new versions which I can't do now.I have tried aptget update also but was intimidated by the lot of messages that came out on the console.

ok windows has for example an update of 5mb for Firefox for example.I can just click on "check for updates" in firefox and only the necessary files are updated-not the whole 5mb firefox download.
In debian distro that I am using there is no facility to update firefox. I complained about this in firefox and was told to contact the author of the distro.Isn't this process complicated? Please guide me perhaps I am missing something.

One thing that's desirable for many users was a tool to downloading a selected package - all dependencies already included - on computer being connected via a fast line, burning it to CD, transfering it to a computer having a slow internet connection, and being able to install the package(s) from there.

Other than that, the situation equals on Windows and Linux: Either order a CD or download...

- I'm now referring to the original, basic problem: What you apparently need is to update specific programs, not just everything. Like updating Firefox, only. <-- To my understanding, that's the key question.

On Ubuntu / Debian:
If there is an update available, it will be installed by that. (Else there will be a message, "Firefox is already installed in the newest version.")

Don't tell me off for generalising. I was going by the specs you gave.

You are generalising, however. You're taking one product, i.e. firefox under
windows, and have that as your example for windows being easier, and
you're using debian as a generic term for Linux. Under slackware, for
instance, you can download firefox individually, no sweat. And as far as
windows goes: firefox is not a windows component, it's not even a M$
product; how about the bazillion of required security fixes you need to
download with the unspeakable OS as well?


Cheers,
Tink

Tinkster,
I specifically posted on the newbie forum because I am that-a newbie even if I used linux for a long time.
I detect an arrogant tone in your reply.If you want me to shut up please tell me directly.Or as a moderator you can just delete my post.
anyway Thanks for replying to my post.

Happily accepted. But I still assume that you know that Firefox
is not a Windows off-spring, and that debian isn't identical to Linux.


Let's just say that the thread-title, the thumbs down icon and
the content together got me rather antsy about your statement,
and I think that you could put some more thought into what you
post. I don't feel an urge to delete your post, or to tell you to
shut-up. But please live with the consequences of what you're
saying, and don't assume that others know what you MEANT to
say.

There's a big difference between:
"I dislike the fact that to get a new version of firefox
debian by default will try to update the entire distribution"

and
":thumbs_down: Linux Becoming Very Advanced for New Users"
"I am writing this to comment that it is increasingly difficult to get
an update of the distro of choice for newbies like me."
"My suggestion is to go for downloadable updates like many
software companies do( in windows mostly)."


Cheers,
Tink

Tinkster is one of the most patient and helpful people around here. I'm sorry, but you set the tone in your original post.

Thanks pixellany, but I only wish I was ;}

When is smell a rat (feel that someone is riding an attack against
linux, specially by comparing it against something as nasty as
windows and finding it inferior) I can get quite bitchy :} ....



Cheers,
Tink

If you are running Kanotix simply do apt-get install synaptic
The you can open Synaptic and only update/install the apps that you need.

Updating Firefox only involves updating Firefox, same for many other apps.

I have used Kanotix(Debian Sid) for over two yrs now . I rarely update everything. Last time I check I had somewhere around 800 packages that could be updated.

I usually only update things that have a security issue or that fix a bug.

You may also want to do apt-get install apt-listbugs
That will show if you pakcage you are trying to install has any "grave" bugs.

Good luck and welcome to the wonderful world of Linux.

The world keeps turning
 

Back in the late 80's I got my first modem can't remember but I think it was a Hayes 1200 baud modem. The computer had 1 meg of memory and Huge 30 meg hard drive. No CD, no USB, the sound came from a tiny builtin speaker.

Installing hardware like a sound card or CD was a time for breaking out the horse shoes, and 4 leaf clovers. I had to fiddle with IRQ conflicts and DMA channels not to mention that there were jumpers every where.

Wow have things changed! I never would have guessed that someday I would buy a PC that didn't have a floppy drive or even need one. Or get a USB flash drive the size of my thumb that stores more data that my first three computers would all together hold.

I guess bongski55 is kinda frustrated at how hard it is for him to keep up with the latest and greatest things in world of linux. I know that how I get when I don't the right tool for the job. You can correct me if I'm wrong.

Up until about four months ago the only PC software I used was made by microsoft or at least ran on a microsoft operating system. If it not broke don't fix it. If you can improve it go for it. For the last three months I have been using Linux and windows about 50/50 and have found features in each that I wish the other had.

Over the years we have all seen software packages get larger and larger. DOS 6 came on three floppy disks, Windows 3.1 came on six floppies. Now I have sitting on my desk a Debian distribution that is on two DVD's.

What I am trying to say is that bongski55 needs to look at his country and say; we need to improve our infrastructure so that we can keep up with our ever changing world.

Thanks Louieb,
At least you understand what I want to say and not be defensive about linux.No, Oman is not my country. I just work here and for the benefit of all of you who have no idea about the Middle East you from the western world have made these places a market place for your products and that includes your "dreaded" windows. I work in a hospital as support staff and it is a windows only environment. Even the medical equipment are all windows based-CT scan,MRI,etc. (I do have long experience in medical equipment and have yet to encounter one that is linux or any other OS than windows but this is another story.)

Tinkster,
I forgot to state that English is not my mother language so I might be misunderstood sometimes. I assure you that I mean no harm.

Dude, I have high speed broadband and it still seems to take forever to complete all the updates the get thrown at me so mostly i just don't bother, unless theres something specific i need (like i newer kernel for this new thing i bought that still doesn't work) things are only ever going to get worse. If your really struggling for your updates and you absolutely must have them, email me and i'll download them and post them to you on a few cds.