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Old 03-31-2008, 09:39 AM   #451
AwesomeMachine
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Post You can't believe everything ...


Quote:
Originally Posted by On2ndThought View Post
I do recognize the desire for a complete wipe of the HD which does the best reasonable job of removing personal user data. On Windoze there is CCleaner, (and a handful of others) which will remove the garbage files that accumulate in tmp and cache folders. And these files can contain personal or sensitive data. Some of these programs can also be told to "wipe" the file multiple times in order to make it exponentially harder to recover if your comp/HD should fall into the hands. What I have not found (yet), is programs offering this depth of security in the Linux world.

Some people desire an extra level of security. I understand that a deleted file CAN be recovered with the right software. I find it comforting to have programs that will do DOD level wiping of files.

Cleansing a drive, maintaining a "clean" HD, in the event that your comp/HD is physically compromised. Removing the partition data makes it hard for the average user to recover any data. To keep the drive "clean" while we continue to use it, wiping the partition table won't work . That's why I use CCleaner, Eraser, and other prgs in Windoze, and why I wish I could find equivalent programs in the Linux world.

Security is an integral part of the Linux philosophy, and the open source community is prolific. Such software is not standard in most distros.
Closed source software cannot be examined, and peer reviewed to determine what it does, or doesn't do. Any software author/publisher can SAY anything. It isn't illegal to claim a product does something intangible, like preserve privacy, when the product doesn't really preserve anything.

You might get a good feeling from reading all the fantastic things software can do, but if you can't look at the code, you never know, until you get busted, or killed.

Computers have legitimate uses. Recording confidential information is an improper use of a PC in the hands of someone who thinks 'Eraser' can wipe a drive, completely, several times, in only 3 hours.

Everything you have ever done with your computer is recorded in files to which no user access exists. The Microsoft Windows XP file system fundamentally changes upon shutdown. Any program that uses any Microsoft operating system needs to observe Microsoft software policies that prevent total data security.

The PC represents data storage and processing capability unprecedented in history. The Linux philosophy of security is to NOT use computers to store OR process information that is sensitive to the point that the user lacks resources to combat a security breech.

For a government, those resources are impressive. Governments can combat computer security breeches if necessary. Being honest, and remaining free from sin are the best security measures one can take. All things are pure to the pure. Suspicion is the device of a guilty mind.
 
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Old 03-31-2008, 09:44 AM   #452
AwesomeMachine
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Post It's permanent

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomot View Post
On my eeepc the SSD is hcd1, and the 2gb SDHC is sda1
I'm being asked to perform the following operation:

dd if=/dev/hdc1 of=/dev/sda1, this takes about 1 hr to perform, followed by, dd if=/dev/hdc of =/dev/sda bs=512 count=1

I'm following this step as part of a longer procedure in order to clone the OS from the SSD to SDSH.
So that in the end the eeepc can boot one OS from the SDHC. or another OS from the SSD.

Question: is this "dd" operation a permanent change to structure of the SDHC,
or does the SDHC revert back to its prior exisitence, for example through formatting, by FAT32 or perhaps to NTFS ?

TIA!
It's permanent
 
Old 03-31-2008, 09:46 AM   #453
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Post Yes ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jindalarpan View Post
hi all

i having one hard disk with many partitions.
i want to create copy of that one partition ie /dev/hda3 to another one /dev/hda6.

for the same i have used the following command:

dd if=/dev/hda3 of=/dev/hda6


but its more that 3 hrs this command is still not completed. it there any parameter that need to be passed.

both the partition is of size 25GB.


thanks
You could try the 'bs=' parameter, with bs=4k.
 
Old 03-31-2008, 09:53 AM   #454
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Post Try this .. .. ..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Equinn View Post
Hello,

I am trying to use DD to image the hard drive on my Linux machine. The source and target are both 300GB. The problem is that it errors out at 137GB, which just so happens to be the maximum available when using 28 bit addressing. Does DD not know about 48 bit addressing? Is there a version out there that does?

I am using Slackware Linux.

Here is the command I used:

dd if=/dev/hdb of=/dev/sda

Here is the response I got:

dd: writing to '/dev/sda' : Input/output error
268435449+0 records in
268435448+0 records out
137438949376 bytes (137GB) copied, 10195.7 seconds, 13.5 Mb/s

I would appreciate any advice.

Thanks,
EQuinn (extreme newbie)
Slackware is still using the 2.4 kernel as the default. The newest version has the 2.6 kernel available as an option. You probably want to use the 2.6 kernel, and this could also be a bios issue.
 
Old 03-31-2008, 10:02 AM   #455
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Post That sounds about right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnsfine View Post
I recently used DD to copy 250Gb with no problems. I selected bs=4M because I hoped it would make best use of the cache inside each drive.

I expect most people who use DD for very large copies use some high value for bs. So maybe there is some bug when the number of blocks is too high. At bs=4M my 250Gb is just 59605 blocks (I'm assuming 4M is 4*1024*1024 bytes).
There are around 250 4M blocks per GB*250 GB=62500. There are a number of things that can account for this, but the number you are getting is acceptable. You're not supposed to fill the drive past 90% formatted capacity. Since I don't know the exact details, and I don't want to know, I can't say where the discrepancy lies. Its probably due to a number of factors. Don't worry about it. The definitions for the multiplicative suffixes are in the post. I believe M=1000*1000.
 
Old 03-31-2008, 10:46 AM   #456
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Hi,
Quote:
Originally Posted by AwesomeMachine View Post
Slackware is still using the 2.4 kernel as the default. The newest version has the 2.6 kernel available as an option. You probably want to use the 2.6 kernel, and this could also be a bios issue.
Slackware 12.0 uses the 2.6 kernel with no 2.4 option. The 2.4 kernel was dropped for Slackware 12.0 with Slackware 11 the kernel default was 2.4 with the option of using the 2.6.

Last edited by onebuck; 03-31-2008 at 10:47 AM. Reason: grammar
 
Old 03-31-2008, 11:25 AM   #457
Fred Caro
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well/this is delicate

In reply to the tracking of one's partner's activity a woman could try 'cheating men uncovered.com'
 
Old 04-03-2008, 08:33 AM   #458
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Best DD info yet!

Keep up the good work.

Thx
prnull
 
Old 04-04-2008, 07:32 AM   #459
kuri0s
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wow !!

very interesting ideas

*thank you very much* for sharing

Last edited by kuri0s; 04-04-2008 at 07:36 AM.
 
Old 05-04-2008, 01:03 AM   #460
weetniks
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printer-friendly version ?

An excellent article as this deserves a printer-friendly version !
 
Old 05-06-2008, 05:06 AM   #461
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Go to the top of the page. Click on "thread tools". Chose "show printable version". Print it or read it or whatever...
 
Old 05-29-2008, 08:51 AM   #462
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AwesomeMachine you rock! Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge and ideas!

I used to dd every machine that needs to be re-installed (mostly Windows of course) through a LiveCD. What is cool is that there is no place for mistakes! I just dd every partition to an image file on an usb drive with conv=notrunc,noerror. Then, if I forgot backing up a single file of the "old" system, I just plug the usb drive to a Linux machine and use "mount -o loop,ro" on the dd image file to read the content! That's really wonderful.

Actually, that WAS really wonderful :-S Let me explain. Today, I did it on a Windows Vista machine, dd was okay as usual. Now I'd like to mount the image file but it asks (for the first time!) for the filesystem. So I add "-t ntfs" but I keep getting "NTFS signature missing"! I already did Vista cloning (and image mounting) with no pain (and without using -t ntfs). I had some problems with "not correctly unmounted" images (XP and Vista) but the -o force option made the job. But now I'm stuck! So I come back to this wonderful thread (that was a long time!) for some piece of information and I can read "dd won't work with Vista OEM"! Damn... I made it already! Why won't it work now?! I read new replies about "new NTFS in Vista" but I can't understand why it worked for me till now!

Hope someone will be able to help.


EDIT : made the job! It took me ages to realise that I did /dev/sda image instead of /dev/sda1... that was really stupid

Last edited by blackeyedboy; 05-31-2008 at 03:14 PM. Reason: solved
 
Old 05-31-2008, 05:55 PM   #463
AwesomeMachine
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Smile We're Interested ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackeyedboy View Post
Today, I did it on a Windows Vista machine, dd was okay as usual ... I already did Vista cloning (and image mounting) with no pain (and without using -t ntfs) ... the -o force option made the job ... Then I read "dd won't work with Vista OEM"! ... I read new replies about "new NTFS in Vista" but I can't understand why it worked for me till now!


EDIT : made the job! It took me ages to realise that I did /dev/sda image instead of /dev/sda1... experience is the greatest teacher.
I'm glad it works now. For anyone else with this problem: The best of my knowledge dictates there are slight partitioning scheme changes with NTFS Vista. Dd can be used, but the filesystem image needs to be written to the exact same partition the image was made from.

Even on this, some say to leave the OEM Vista partition alone, save shrinking it, because dd doesn't understand the new NTFS. ?? I'm not sure. I would like you to post more details, but be judicious. Dd is changing rapidly, in small, but hugely usable ways.

Microsoft doesn't publish the NTFS spec, so open source uses some hit or miss, and convergence methods to guess the spec.
 
Old 06-03-2008, 08:00 PM   #464
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AwesomeMachine View Post
The best of my knowledge dictates there are slight partitioning scheme changes with NTFS Vista.
Actually, they're specific to Vista's management of disk partitions, not to NTFS per se: NTFS hasn't changed in any major way since Win2K/XP, and in fact all three systems can interoperate on each other's NTFS environments successfully. Their Disk Management partition operations, however, can destroy each other's partitions under some circumstances (and there's a minor NTFS incompatibility in that accessing a Vista NTFS system with WinXP can wipe out Vista's system restore points because WinXP considers them to be corrupt).

Quote:
Dd can be used, but the filesystem image needs to be written to the exact same partition the image was made from.
That should generally be safe. If you want to do anything more ambitious, it's important to understand (and cope with) Vista's new partitioning strategies and also with its new boot mechanism.

The latter abandons the previous boot.ini-based mechanism (where you used to have to edit boot.ini to update location information if the partition order on the disk changed - though perhaps not if the Windows 'system' and 'boot' partitions were one and the same) in favor of a 'boot configuration database' (BCD)-based mechanism which is sensitive to absolute partition location on the specific disk. What this means is that if you change the location, you have to change the BCD information so that Vista can find itself (even in cases where you might not have had to update boot.ini for earlier Windows versions). Probably the easiest way to do this (which you can - and must - do *before* moving the Vista system unless you want to mess around trying to update the BCD from outside that system after the move has occurred) is to 'generalize' the BCD information as described in http://www.multibooters.co.uk/cloning.html (part of a Web site with a great deal of useful information for those who wish to multi-boot Vista systems).

Furthermore, Microsoft, in its infinite wisdom, changed what had been industry-standard partition alignment for three decades or so. By default, Vista no longer aligns partition starts and ends on logical cylinder boundaries, but (usually, AFAICT) on something like 1 MB boundaries. What this means is that you may be able to use dd to move a Vista partition successfully (after having incorporated the boot adjustments described above) between environments that use the new-style alignment, or between environments that use the old-style alignment - but not from one to the other, because dd will wind up leaving unused space at the end of the moved partition due to the difference in size that the difference in alignment creates (and then even if the file system itself doesn't get upset because its new home isn't the size that it thought it was, other partition-management software - including that within Vista or Win2K/XP - may, and whether it will fix things up appropriately is at best a gamble). Worse yet, since Win2K/XP just assume that partitions should be aligned on traditional cylinder boundaries, if you have a new-style-alignment Vista system, install a Win2K/XP system on the same disk (or just decide to operate on the disk using something like Partition Magic that doesn't understand the new-style alignment), and then use the latter to perform partitioning on the disk (and vice versa IIRC), entire existing partitions can be lost due to alignment confusion.

(This is actually not a new problem with Vista, though had until now been fairly rare: older BIOSes - e.g., in some Thinkpads - sometimes used 240 logical heads per track rather than the usual 255 heads per track to create the 'logical cylinders' used to define traditional partition alignment, and this difference in partition alignment and therefore size could cause the same kind of problem when attempting to move a partition between environments using dd - and could also destructively confuse partition managers.)

Fortunately, more intelligent copiers like Acronis True Image (a free 'Personal' version of its version 8 may still be available, as well as a crippled free version of its version 10 in the form of Seagate's DiscWizard, though to use the latter it's got to be able to see a Seagate or Maxtor disk - an external USB drive is fine - somewhere in your system) are able to take an image of a Vista partition and restore it successfully (including any resizing required) to a different environment (though you still have to adjust the BCD as described earlier with V8 - V10 *might* be smart enough to do it for you).

The only thing you may still have to do (assuming that you had Vista on a new-style-aligned disk and moved it to an old-style-aligned disk) is to update the Vista Registry so that its Disk Management facilities won't perform new-style-aligned partition operations on the old-style-aligned disk (I'm not sure that it's too dumb to recognize the existing alignment, but at least suspect that it might use new-style alignment on any empty disks it met, which likely would not be what you wanted) - and the way to do that is described in http://support.microsoft.com/kb/931760; that completes the process of undoing Microsoft's 'better' partitioning idea and returning Vista to the fold that the rest of the world occupies.

Last edited by BT+1; 06-04-2008 at 03:58 AM. Reason: added space at end of link
 
Old 06-04-2008, 01:16 AM   #465
JZL240I-U
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Whoa, now that is an impressive whopper of information, hats off, kudos, ant thank you .

Quote:
Originally Posted by BT+1 View Post
... What this means is that if you change the location, you have to change the BCD information so that Vista can find itself (even in cases where you might not have had to update boot.ini for earlier Windows versions).
Just out of interest, how do you do that, I mean with which tool and what parameters? <edit> I just learned (from your link) with an editor... </edit>

Quote:
Originally Posted by BT+1 View Post
... By default, Vista no longer aligns partition starts and ends on logical cylinder boundaries, but (usually, AFAICT) on something like 1 MB boundaries. What this means is that you may be able to use dd to move a Vista partition successfully (after having incorporated the boot adjustments described above) between environments that use the new-style alignment, or between environments that use the old-style alignment - but not from one to the other, because dd will wind up leaving unused space at the end of the moved partition due to the difference in size that the difference in alignment creates ...
Out of curiosity: If you used a "bs=1M" parameter with dd, wouldn't that work?

PS: Your second link includes the semicolon and thus doesn't work on the first attempt. You might consider editing your post for easier use...

Last edited by JZL240I-U; 06-04-2008 at 01:28 AM.
 
  


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