Is Debain 7 Wheezy resource intensive?
 

Not sure if many of you remember but I posted about how I was going to install Debain on my fathers old PC so he can try out. Debain 7 Wheezy has been released and it appears that it uses the GNOME version that Fedora 18 uses (which in my expierence uses a lot resources and is the one that has all of the windows in the activities tab).

This is going to be a problem for me, can I install another version of GNOME on it and still have all of the features? Would the only alternative now be Linux Mint Debain with MATE or something?

Thanks, guys, I havent found any youtube videos with reviews of Debain 7 since its release.

You need to tell us the computer's hardware specs if you want a meaningful answer. :)

Debian 7 has dozens of desktop environments and windows managers: Gnome, KDE, Xfce, LXDE, Openbox, Fluxbox, Ratpoison, Awesome, etc. to fit every need/preference. If you choose, Gnome, the version is Gnome 3.4.2, which is similar to that used in Fedora 17.

If you're comfortable enough using apt and getting connected via the CLI, you can do a netinstall which will give you only the ABSOLUTE essentials, then build Debian with any WM/DE that you choose. That's how I do since I prefer KDE, but dislike many of the KDE-suite apps (such as kmail, kopete), so I find it takes less time to do a netinstall and build it as I want than to install the default Debian (or the default Debian KDE respin) and remove everything I dislike.

You should also read the Debian 7 documentation; there is a section on hardware requirements: http://www.debian.org/releases/stabl...h03s04.html.en

Sorry for not specifying before, the PC has a Pentium 4 2.53ghz, 1GB of memory, and more than enough hard drive space (not sure how much but its probably 80+). It also has an Nvidia 6700 video card or something. The problem is I think Debain will be slower and make my dad not want to use it, he is like a die hard windows user so I really need to show him a distro with rather good performance that works with his PC, espicially since this will be the first one he tries.

Ill think of maybe putting LXDE on it but many times for example on CentOS the LXDE UI looks horrible. If it looks somewhat nice in Debain I will give that a try then.

Just, if I put another desktop environment on it, will all of the features still be accessable? (by features I mean options)

LXDE is basically the same on CentOS and Debian. It looks as good or as bad as you set it up to look. :)

http://lxde.org/lxappearance_change_look_feel

Xfce is another nice lightweight choice.

If your dad is a die-hard Windows fan, then why not let him use Windows? Why force him to switch to Linux? Probably he just needs a hardware upgrade from his aging Pentium 4; Dell has nice Windows 8 laptops on sale right now for $299 for example...

He has Windows Server 2008 trial version on his desktop and its really slow and never uses it because of this. He already has a work laptop and even if he didnt he doesnt want to spend money buying a new one. Im not forcing him to try it lol, I asked him if he wants to try it and he said okay, so im trying to get a first impression. I could always go and use Debain 6.0....but I like using the latest versions.

I never really messed around with LXDE so I dont know as to har far I can go with setting up, how would XFCE look, the default way? XFCE having that bottom bar is probably a no no, is there a way to disable that?

That computer should be more than enough to run Debian + Gnome (any version). I have a computer with AMD Athlon K7 (500MHz) CPU and 128MB of RAM and Squeeze+Gnome is well usable (ok, web browsing and stuff may be sluggish but the desktop itself is fine). I don't know if Wheezy ships with a heavier version of Gnome but it still shouldn't be too heavy.

KDE might be another story, especially if you have all eye-candy on and don't have proper driver for your GPU.

I personally use and recommend Linux Mint Xfce; it has a nice default configuration (not the standard Xfce with the weird half-bar on the bottom).

See here for some ideas what you can do with Xfce: http://xfce-look.org/

Debian's philosophy is to give you the "vanilla" version of each desktop environment, as designed by the upstream developers; they do not put a lot of time/effort into customizing the interface like Ubuntu or Mint do. Debian users tend to see this as "a feature, not a bug."

What? Why does he have Windows Server installed on a desktop? Who made that decision? It needs around 8 gigs to run smoothly, and it's not something you should be using on a workstation. Just install Debian, it works fine, and will work a lot better than that Server installation, even with 1 gig of RAM.

Wheezy defaults to Gnome 3, but has a Gnome-fallback (I think that's what it's called, maybe gnome-classic?) that's mostly the same as Gnome 2.

Wheezy's GNOME 3 is v3.4 with some parts/fixes back-ported from later versions.

In GDM you have the choice to select either:
*GNOME (GTK3 +GNOME Shell + Mutter and heavily relying on your GPU).
*GNOME-Classic (GTK3 +a very basic GNOME 3, based on gnome-fallback).

XFCE (GTK2) works well for those seeking a less heavy GTK environment and can look like anything ("GTK2-only" is in-my-very-very-very-humble opinion doomed to die though).

LXDE is an even more light-weight GTK-desktop (GTK2, Openbox, less easy to tweak in the GUI than XFCE)

PS: If you go easy+lightweight, consider using something like Tint2 with openbox and set it up like a "normal" desktop.

Standard Gnome and KDE installs are to a certain extent. XFCE, LXDE are much lighter. I personally run MATE mostly, use the others to test things on, and find it is a nice little DE but it is not official (yet).

OHHH DUH, I forgot about Debain Wheezy with MATE. Thanks man you're a life saver. Idk why he has Windows server on that he just likes servers, and I didn't really want to give him something ubuntu based, again Debain to me feels more like a "server" distro or at least that's what it is used for many times and its probably more stable than Ubuntu so as a first try I want him to try something rock solid but also very light MATE will be perfect thanks!

If your dad is using xp then he will find that it is going to be unsupported, not exactly sure but I think in the next few months.
As far as for running Debian wheezy you may experience some lag time with gnome3, but you can get debian cd with different desktop. You can try the XFCE, LXDE or kde cd listed here. http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/7.0.0/i386/iso-cd/

Do a minimal install using the non-free cd for your architecture, when you get to tasksel deselect absolutely everything, then let it install, at reboot as root (you will only have the CLI) and using vi or something similar add the MATE repository
to your /etc/apt/sources.list
and
,then
then
then
Reboot, login install anything else you want like LibreOffice banshee, VLC, iceweasel, and have fun.

2.5 GHz is fast enough for almost anything. If it appears somehow too slow, try Xfce instead?

Support will end on April 8, 2014.

I was a little ahead I guess, but might as well be prepared for it.

so what if it stops? antivirus, firewalls, etc will still get updates. if he is using old computer, he probably doesn't need fancy apps that require latest directx or dotnet.

Usually when you get a message support will end it will end at that time, but when it is a release date it will be put offf if there are bugs. Can you atleast tell me when anybody has said that they will discontinue something that they haven't? Ms is moving to a new phase to keep selling, so in order to sell they will make certain products obsolete or unsupported & it doesn't have anything to do with hardware support, as a lot of the xp machines barely support vista which you can no longer purchase. Let alone try windows 7 on them & have to do a hardware hack. A lot of those xp machines will be unsecure unless they change to some light-wight linux OS. What happens if the operator does get an infection should they download all of the updates now & reinstall?
Why do we even tell people about their unsupported OS'es here at LQ why not let them go unsupported & suggest a firewall or ip-tables, in fact why update if you don't really need to?

Not true at all. Can you tell me of any AV that will install, and run on Windows98?

indeed, why update if there is no need? updates (at least the ones from Microsoft) could make system slower, they will fragment the old hdd and might require *more* RAM+CPU.

I don't know of av running on win98, but if he uses xp carefully, he might not even need one. there is always an option of offline scan in some other, modern, computer. or there are online av programs. he could create sha-2 sum of all (executable) files and send it online for scan, or compare it with known good values. firewall can be builtin home router, and I doubt it needs major updates for 'external' attacks.

after all, computer can be used offline, he didn't say internet was requirement :)
(he can use some linux livecd only for internet)

You mentioned AV after making a blanket statement so I asked you the obvious question. XP won't be supported by anyone much after MS withdraw from it. It simply wont be cost effective to make thigns like AVs, and other things you mention, work on so many systems.

And quite often those updates are critical for security.

I can already see you going 'but but but firewall and antivirus'...yeah, thats not going to help if (as it typically the case) some microsoft software is still connecting to the net.

You cannot measure speed from a pure MHz rating. P4 2.53s are not at all quick, they werent even that fast on release which was over 10 years ago.

Debian 7 GNOME/KDE will run pretty badly on that system. I wouldn't put MATE on a system for a new linux user. Doesnt sem that good an idea to use a fork of an ancient desktop that could be dropped at any time. Xfce and LXDE would work, but LXDE looks pretty horrid (IMO anyway). I dont know if Xfce would be any faster or slower than XP (should be faster than 2008 server though). If there is much in the way of video watching happening, and he's got a 6XXX nVidia card, linux could be slower overall than any (current) windwos version. Due to the 6XXX cards haivng some hardware video decoding features under windows, and none really with linux.

BTW, I ahve run debian 7 Xfce on a slower system (celeron 2.0Ghz, 512MB RAM, intel 845 video) and it ran fine. Hardly fast, but provided you didnt hit the system with too much at once it was OK.

and you know this simply because win98 doesn't have AV today?
I wouldn't be so sure. I think xp has more advantages over win98 than 7 over it.
if enough people cling to it, it will be cost effective to make AVs.

anyway linux is better solution in the long run.

True, sometimes the MHz rating can differ significantly. I have a similar experience, one Athlon XP clocked at ~2120 MHz and one Intel i5-2500K clocked at 4500 MHz, but the latter is 3-3.5 times faster than the XP instead of little more than 2 times (only using one CPU core). Boy is that thing fast. Eventually brought me back to Gentoo Linux.. :D

At least Xfce should do the trick on the OP's machine.

Regardless, if the OPs father isn't using the computer as it's too slow, why not try a live environment (http://live.debian.net/ has several DEs) and see if it runs sufficiently for the necessary tasks. True, you won't get an idea of HDD performance, but the other components can be tested and see if the desired DE (GNOME, KDE, XFCE, whatever) will run well enough to warrant further testing by installing to and running from the HDD.

Now, keep in mind the live environment may have to be run from a CD... P4 based mobos are a crap shoot as if they can or can not boot from USB, depending on the age. Maybe the OP will want to check if there is a BIOS update that allows booting from USB before continuing.

Booting from CD/DVD is not all that bad, just slow to get going. Once an app is loaded and running, however, it's fine.