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Old 02-16-2018, 05:31 PM   #1
linuxhard
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Lightbulb going to fully test the best distro. going to do a dual-install with win10.


going to fully test the best distro. going to do a dual-install with win10.

need well thought out recommendations. im going to pick the one that has the most detailed outline/explanation

im looking for an os that has better design than win10
the #1 thing im looking for is good design


=== full details / summary of design requirements sorted/ranked by relative importance (has to be overall better design than win10): ===

if some of these are done by a 'DE', please just helpfully mention based on your personal experience which 'DE' does what
and is most helpful for these few things below


**good design is helpful**

clean visible switching windows -

in win10, when you switch windows (say 10 chrome windows) it shows:
1. the title (very clearly)
2. and an overview/screenshot of the window
icon of software is not important but haven't tested without

linux needs do something equal or more helpful than this
good design is helpful & clear


**good design is in-built & good defaults**

easy simple effective volume control -

in win10, when you hover to the bottom, you can up/increase/down/decreaee the volume via the scroll wheel. this is universal anywhere like when fullscreen on youtube
this is an external software

linux needs do something equal or in-built, or helpful than this
good design is good defaults


**good design is having customisable options when lacking good defaults**

change all frequently used shortcuts/hotkeys -

linux has to able to change the 'default/in-built' shortcuts like for fullscreen. f11 is not easily accessible or usable, and is not on the left side of the keyboard
good design is having customisable options when lacking good defaults


**good design includes everything learned & known about good spatial design - presentation of info**

good spatial usage of screen space -

in win10, 'the bar thing at the bottom of the screen with the software icons' can auto-hide. when hovered, it shows

linux has to do something equal or better or more helpful
good design includes everything learned & known about good spatial design - presentation of info


**good design is good usability**

easy simple way to download -

in win10,
1. you google something, 2. you click on link, 3. then click download, 4. done

linux needs to be something equally simple to be able to download any software that works on linux, or better
good design is good usability


**good design is good usability**

in win10, every time you install or update a software/app, you have to put in a pw every single time
you also do not need to have a pw on startup/login

ilinux has to be equal or better
good design is good usability


**good design is good internals**

auto-clean junk -

in win10, when software is uninstalled, it leaves behind 'program start' files and empty folders that all should've been removed
there is a setting to auto-delete the 'downloads' folders after 1-30 days

this is not a problem in chromeos

linux has to do all these things equal or better
good design is good internals


=== the above are necessary, the following are optional ===

**good design is good visual design**

linux should be able to have different 'desktop background/wallpaper' on different 'desktops/virtual desktops'?


=== other notes: ===

* security doesn't make anything better, but it can prevent bad things which occurs .0001% of the time, and is focused on corporations
* viruses are commonly in emails but gmail takes care of that so worries

interpretations notes:

* if a post does not directly/plainly say that a dual-boot ever been done, then we do not assume that they have ever installed a dual-boot

being helpful notes:

* i have a lot more urgent & important things to take care of
* if this is more trouble than it's worth, please just let me know
* maybe i'll post/ask later this year or next year


=== physical requirements: ===

* has to be able to be installed via a <2gb usb
* or live cd (if things are saved, and it doesnt slow down performance)

* computer for the dual-boot: Dell Inspiron 17R-N7110

--

good design is about the positives for the common actions that are done. if it's a niche thing, or infrequent, it's likely isn't important

im looking for an os that has better design than win10
the #1 thing im looking for is good design

good design makes things better. bad design hurts you.


--

Last edited by linuxhard; 02-16-2018 at 05:56 PM.
 
Old 02-16-2018, 05:39 PM   #2
AwesomeMachine
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I think pretty much any distro and DE will suit your needs.
 
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Old 02-16-2018, 09:59 PM   #3
linuxhard
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im looking for details

im pretty sure many doesnt fit the physical requirements section

i also dont think with the insane of problems and bad design i saw -- https://www.linuxquestions.org/quest...27-4175611742/

Last edited by linuxhard; 02-16-2018 at 10:01 PM.
 
Old 02-16-2018, 10:26 PM   #4
frankbell
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That a distro meets your arbitrary requirements does not make it a "best distro."

It makes it "the distro that best fits my arbitrary requirements."

Furrfu.
 
Old 02-17-2018, 02:53 AM   #5
AwesomeMachine
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Everything you mention is available in pretty much any DE.
 
Old 02-17-2018, 03:54 AM   #6
beachboy2
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linuxhard,

Have a look here for reviews of various Linux distributions and take your pick:
https://www.dedoimedo.com/linux.html

You can install VirtualBox in W10 and then "road test" as many Linux distributions as you like inside VB.

https://www.lifewire.com/install-ubu...-steps-2202108

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyJH86uXZw8

Last edited by beachboy2; 02-18-2018 at 02:31 AM.
 
Old 02-17-2018, 04:56 AM   #7
linuxhard
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thanks ill look at https://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/...stro-2017.html and im familiar with this site

--

'Everything you mention is available in pretty much any DE.'

ok since you know a lot of linux distros, which do you recommend?

the main post asks for the best recommendation based on good design -- something being 'available' is very very very different from the overall good design listed above

'pretty much' is also very different from if it actually is, because there options where the status of 'available' is not accurate

we all should try to be helpful by helping others understand the basics of good design --> http://joelcalifa.com/blog/how-i-got-hired-by-github/

Last edited by linuxhard; 02-17-2018 at 05:03 AM.
 
Old 02-17-2018, 05:45 AM   #8
ondoho
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dedoimedo just adds another layer of subjectivity to the unholy mess of trying to define "The Best".

imho it's slightly better to make an informed search on distrowatch.

my recommendation is to stick to long-time players (a decade at least), stick with a choice for a while instead of re-installing straight away, and start with a minimal system and build up on that. that last step is admittedly one step beyond newbie.
 
Old 02-17-2018, 06:25 AM   #9
linuxhard
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for the review site, yea. i've mentioned a few of the key points of good design, and i understand other reviews would not be a good fit

so it's better to just get recommendations based on the best list above, which is definitively the best distro based on good design (and if any distro that does things significantly better, then yes, that would be a good thing) - a good surprise

Quote:
Originally Posted by ondoho View Post
informed search
what did you mean by 'informed search'? i do not understand how that applies to the main post

can you elaborate on how that is directly relevant? this distro site does not seen to have a checkbox for each of those important things in the main post

but the site is extremeley cluttered so im not sure where or what im suppose to be looking for?

Last edited by linuxhard; 02-17-2018 at 06:27 AM.
 
Old 02-17-2018, 06:43 AM   #10
michaelk
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Or maybe start with their top ten list
https://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=major

Just one comment that a distribution != DE. There are more than 300 distributions and 15 desktop environments to choose from. Many are specialized distributions so that really isn't a valid number but there are a lot. While many distributions may only provide one DE and Ubuntu may not be the best distribution bu you can try out 8 DEs while keeping the base operating system the same.
 
Old 02-17-2018, 06:57 AM   #11
BW-userx
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Looks like a plan, I only see one snag, what one considers the "Best Linux Distro around" that is based more on option than facts. This can only be deduced by trial and error by you the tester. still you may find others disagreeing with you on your findings.

Best to just learn how to install windows and Linux, what to do with each Operating system when installing them. Learn patents especally when installing Windows. I say this because some might screw it up. just get yourself a few iso of Linux and a USB Stick or two learn how to burn an iso to USB Stick both in Windows and Linux, getting the right software for Window to do this. then have at it. Install one Linux or many Linux OSes they only take about 10GB max to install. Then keep them in a multi boot using them getting to know them. trying to make them all the same. Your desktops. using the same set up for the same desktop on each system.

then do whatever learning how to get around in them. then whence you've came to your conclusion on which is the BEST Linux Distro in town. you have found it.

still some may disagree with you, because not everyone enjoys eating cold beats for breakfast.
 
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Old 02-17-2018, 07:23 AM   #12
linuxhard
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sorry these comments aren't helpful towards the goal of the main post on design, listed at top

please see the main post on good design

"need well thought out recommendations. im going to pick the one that has the most detailed outline/explanation"

---

i prefer if the unhelpful comments were refrained from, they are not helpful at all and they are not helpful towards the recommendations im still looking for

currently this experience has made me want to go

win10 macos or chromeos far more

top 2 are win10 & macos

tho all 3 is pretty equal from the research

i would def go chromeos 1 key limit/problem, and possibly 2 depending


linux is def way way bottom at this point

this is nightmare so far, and a terrible experience, an excessive amount of trouble

it would be terrible to be part of or associate with a 'community' of ppl like this

it's extremely painful, i dont even have this nonsense when it comes to any of the other oses across sites and discords and everything (i did the research)

this is just terrible

besides this one good comment --> https://www.linuxquestions.org/quest...9/#post5820746

Last edited by linuxhard; 02-17-2018 at 07:32 AM.
 
Old 02-17-2018, 08:29 AM   #13
BW-userx
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if you are looking for the best of the best of the best of the best, then you're going to have to do some testing. As not all really really really good Linux Distros do a lot of documentation on general specif such and features you have listed, as in

How well does Linux clean itself up after uninstalling an application? all distros that I've use all have their own particular means of cleaning up after itself. Finding the commands to clean up, purge your cache etc.. are all within the commands to run your system.

**good design is good visual design**

linux should be able to have different 'desktop background/wallpaper' on different 'desktops/virtual desktops'?

that is desktop / Window Manager independent
jwm has within it the means to display a different image on each desktop, xfce4 too has this, whereas others do not. etc...

Your mind is stuck in Windows and not being familiar with Linux and how things are done within Linux/GNU. as GNU/Linux is not Windows, Linux/GNU does things differently even though you still may find some similarities between the two.

What class did you just get out of that made you hot for Tux?

Last edited by BW-userx; 02-17-2018 at 08:44 AM.
 
Old 02-17-2018, 01:33 PM   #14
Brains
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beachboy2 View Post
Before attempting a dual-boot, I suggest that you read this:
https://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/...-8-ubuntu.html
And don't listen to this advice, the author of this article is brain-dead. He don't know anything about MSR partition or why Windows created a second Recover Environment partition in /dev/sda5.

Windows 10 partition should be resized by Windows 10 not Gparted or it likely won't boot without going through recovery environment.

The author suggest shrinking Windows 8 and sticking Linux between it and the second recovery environment Windows created because Asus didn't have the first recovery environment after Windows where it's supposed to be according to Windows documentation. In this scenario, eventually Windows 10 will create a third recovery environment beside the OS where it is supposed to be. For Windows 10, this will happen this spring with the next cumulative update. The small recovery partition has to be "AFTER" the Windows 10 partition no ifs and or buts.

AND:
When you stick Linux between Windows and it's recovery environment partition, you disable your push button reset feature, you better have a recovery drive created if it don't boot because you followed a Linux author that don't read Windows documentation.

It's articles like that, that have so many newbies coming here crying the blues because they didn't create a recovery drive and now they lost Windows and blame Linux. Yet it's not Linux at fault, it's the Linux community at fault for not pointing wannabe dual boot newbies in the right direction.
 
Old 02-17-2018, 01:43 PM   #15
Brains
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Below is what a proper dual/triple boot should look like with a double drive system, and you have to ensure your Windows push button recovery environment is enabled after changing partition structure. The last three partitions of the first drive in the code below are Linux OS and swap.
Code:
Disk /dev/nvme0n1: 238.5 GiB, 256060514304 bytes, 500118192 sectors
Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Disklabel type: gpt
Disk identifier: 0F843767-A7A2-43A1-8B3B-B4D9B2C5C45C

Device             Start       End   Sectors   Size Type
/dev/nvme0n1p1      2048    616447    614400   300M EFI System
/dev/nvme0n1p2    616448    878591    262144   128M Microsoft reserved
/dev/nvme0n1p3    878592 410478591 409600000 195.3G Microsoft basic data
/dev/nvme0n1p4 410478592 412321791   1843200   900M Windows recovery environment
/dev/nvme0n1p5 412321792 453281791  40960000  19.5G Microsoft basic data
/dev/nvme0n1p6 453281792 494241791  40960000  19.5G Microsoft basic data
/dev/nvme0n1p7 494241792 500117503   5875712   2.8G Microsoft basic data

Disk /dev/sda: 931.5 GiB, 1000204886016 bytes, 1953525168 sectors
Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 4096 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 4096 bytes / 4096 bytes
Disklabel type: gpt
Disk identifier: 8BBCDA17-13A5-47F0-8E1C-433FA5BD8FED

Device          Start        End    Sectors   Size Type
/dev/sda1        2048 1911535615 1911533568 911.5G Microsoft basic data
/dev/sda2  1911535616 1953523711   41988096    20G Windows recovery environment
 
  


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