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Old 11-09-2005, 01:01 AM   #1
damasta55r
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Dual-booting using grub


I currently have windows xp. I am going to create a 20gb partition for linspire 5. How do i dual-boot windows and linux. Do i pop in the linspire cd, install, then what? I believe that after install, linspire will always boot up? Does linspire come with grub? If not, what do i do? Do i using linspire, install grub. Then how do i use it? I dk anything. Could anyone explain step by step. Thnx in advance for any replies.

ROger
 
Old 11-09-2005, 01:42 AM   #2
lord-fu
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Welcome to Linux Questions!
I am sure you could use a disk partioning tool that comes with linspire, although I have never used it. On the other hand, since you said you have xp already I would suggest:

1. Use a disk partioning tool within xp as you seem like you are new to *nix, things might seem confusing at first. Just set your self 20gigs to the side and then
2. Reboot with your disk in.
3. Point your installer to the partition you set aside, again I am not sure as I never have used linspire but most of the time there is a graphical or ncurses based installer and when it gets to the point of selecting sizes...just let it do the work for you untill you get the hang of it.
4. I dont know if there is grub, but lilo is just as good IMHO. Whatever boot manager it comes with just have it install to the mbr.

hope that helps

Last edited by lord-fu; 11-09-2005 at 01:54 AM.
 
Old 11-09-2005, 07:42 AM   #3
saikee
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Got the feeling Linspire is only a Live CD not installable in a Hard disk, unless it is a paid version.

Yes you need to pre-partition the hard disk first and tell the Linux installer to install in it a a partition specified by you. This way there is to risk of damage to the XP partition.

Usually you need two partitions; one to be used as Swap of size twice your physical memory or 1Gb, and another partition for the root directory / for the distro. I would say 95% of the distros can be accommodated in a 5Gb partition.

Some Live CDs that are installable in a hard disk are Slax, Damn Small Linux, Puppy,...

Slax is pretty decent as it has the most of the mainstream features of a Linux.

Linux call primary partitions hda1, hda2, hda3 and hda4. Logical partitions if created always start at hda5 with one of the primary converted into an extended partition. A Linux can be booted from either a primary or a logical partition.

It is a charactersitic of a Linux to check every partition for a boot loader and include it for booting if one is found. Thus installing a Linux will automatically dual boot your XP. If it fails we can give advice for you to overcome it.
 
Old 11-09-2005, 11:06 AM   #4
bigjohn
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Some distros will repartition an XP hard drive as part of the install - Mandriva for example. Not used Linspire though.

I've usually done my partitioning with Partition Magic 8 - well I did until I got rid of windows. Since then I've used "cfdisk".

If you have a utility to do the partitioning, it's probably easier to use it! As for which and how many partitions?

Well I'd suggest a minimum of 5 - 1 for the XP, then one for /boot, one for /swap, one for / (that'd be root) and one for /home. Lots of the mainstream distros will do OK with just /swap and / though I like the gentoo default arrangement with an added /home - because you're protecting the /boot stuff away from / and the /home protects any data, address books, personal files and any customisations if you decided to try another distro (you just format the / for the new distro to go into and as long as you only install the same software then the favourites/icons/etc etc should work fine).

I'd say something like 500megs for /boot, 5 to 10 gigs for / and whatever you want for /home - the swap? well if you have loads of RAM installed you'd probably never use it, but it still seems to be pretty common wisdom to have anything from the same amount of ram, too twice the amount of ram (which is basically what I did) - but that wisdom does date from the days when 64 megs of RAM made it a "power system".

The only thing that I think you should remember, is that you'd normally put the bootloader in the first section of the hard drive(s) so that it can see all installed OS's and offer the boot facility for them - if you put it on the first section of the linux partition(s) you'd have to have an alternative way of booting the linux install as the windows bootloader would automatically boot the XP.

Yes, it can seem nerve wracking to install that over the windows MBR, but thats the normal way of doing that for dual boot - some distros (again, Mandriva for example) have the abilty/facility, to boot from the first install disc, follow the instructions for "other options" and you then run "rescue" and get the option of re-installing the windows bootloader if you have problems or are worried about something - normally the linux install won't touch the XP install unless you specifically tell it too.

regards

John
 
Old 11-09-2005, 01:14 PM   #5
saikee
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Mandriva does not repartition a user's drive unless asked by the user.

The multi-partitions within a Linux is an old school. By having just one partition for the root /, all /boot, /usr, /home... are subdirectories to the root. They can expand and contract automatically according to the user's usage within one partition.

Having several partitions have the following drawbacks

(1) One or two partitions may become too small in future.

(2) In booting two partitions /boot and / have to be known by the boot loader instead of just one /.

(3) The /home and /boot become difficult to manage if you have more than one distro in the box.

(4) One has to click the properties of several partitions and sum the spaces together in order to find out how large the Linux is.

(5) If one has to clone, backup or transfer the Linux to another part of the same disk or a different disk it is a lot of unnecessary work to repeat the operation for every related partitions.

I am multi boot 50+ systems. Out of which over 40 of them are Linux. Every one is inside just ONE partition, including Mandriva. All booted by one boot loader Grub.

Unless one instructs an installer to use more than one partition a Linux always deafults to ONE partition in the installation.

Last edited by saikee; 11-09-2005 at 01:17 PM.
 
Old 11-09-2005, 01:23 PM   #6
Ynot Irucrem
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Quote:
I'd say something like 500megs for /boot
500MB for /boot???? mine is 15MB, of which only 7MB is taken up.

Last edited by Ynot Irucrem; 11-09-2005 at 01:30 PM.
 
Old 11-09-2005, 07:10 PM   #7
bigjohn
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ynot Irucrem
500MB for /boot???? mine is 15MB, of which only 7MB is taken up.
Got the space and it makes for a nice round number to remember. I should think that mine doesn't use much more than you do - but hey? what the hell!

Quote:
Originally posted by saikee
Mandriva does not repartition a user's drive unless asked by the user.

The multi-partitions within a Linux is an old school. By having just one partition for the root /, all /boot, /usr, /home... are subdirectories to the root. They can expand and contract automatically according to the user's usage within one partition.

Having several partitions have the following drawbacks

(1) One or two partitions may become too small in future.

(2) In booting two partitions /boot and / have to be known by the boot loader instead of just one /.

(3) The /home and /boot become difficult to manage if you have more than one distro in the box.

(4) One has to click the properties of several partitions and sum the spaces together in order to find out how large the Linux is.

(5) If one has to clone, backup or transfer the Linux to another part of the same disk or a different disk it is a lot of unnecessary work to repeat the operation for every related partitions.

I am multi boot 50+ systems. Out of which over 40 of them are Linux. Every one is inside just ONE partition, including Mandriva. All booted by one boot loader Grub.

Unless one instructs an installer to use more than one partition a Linux always deafults to ONE partition in the installation.
You may very well be right. Though I thought that the thread is just about the basics of explaining the choices that surround a new user and hopefully a new dual boot system.

Your "old school" is my "tried and tested". If it was so "old school" then I don't quite follow why that particular method is still what the gentoo.org recommend. It is, afterall, one of the more up to date distros that keeps managing to stay pretty much ahead of the "main stream" rpm based ones - of course it's not what you'd call easy to install, when compared to mandriva, SuSE, fedora or whatever.

Ha! I do see your point about a system becoming complicated, especially when you have more than say, 2 or 3 installed distros, but 40 or so versions in the same box? Isn't that just being greedy

regards

John

p.s. Please don't take my comments as criticism. They are meant in a friendly manner. You seem to have done "one hell of a good job" by learning enough to get that amount of systems into one box - I don't understand it, but that shouldn't preclude anyone from wanting to have a go. Afterall, isn't the whole point of this linux thing about choice ?
 
Old 11-10-2005, 10:41 AM   #8
saikee
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I am just trying to find if there is a PC system that Grub cannot boot. Every time I fed it to Grub the bugger just ate it for breakfast. Think I call it a day if I hit 100.
 
Old 11-10-2005, 07:57 PM   #9
bigjohn
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Quote:
Originally posted by saikee
I am just trying to find if there is a PC system that Grub cannot boot. Every time I fed it to Grub the bugger just ate it for breakfast. Think I call it a day if I hit 100.
Well done my friend. Thats what I call dedication and commitment.

regards

John
 
Old 11-18-2005, 10:51 PM   #10
tinybit
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GRUB and LILO always conflict with Windows. And GNU GRUB is not so robust, causing many problems during boot.

So try GRUB for DOS please. It is a cross-platform boot loader based on GNU GRUB. The GRUB.EXE can be started from DOS/Win9x; and GRLDR can be started from BOOT.INI of Windows NT/2K/XP/2003; and even more, the GRUB.EXE can be started from LINUX via the KEXEC tool.

By using GRUB.EXE or GRLDR, you don't have to touch your MBR. It is the safest way coexisting with DOS/Windows.

You needn't install GRUB for DOS. Just run GRUB.EXE from DOS, or append a line of "C:\GRLDR=START GRUB" into your BOOT.INI(restart and select the "START GRUB" menu item), that will do.

Download GRUB for DOS here: http://freshmeat.net/projects/grub4dos/

There is a fat12grldr.img file with the GRUB for DOS release. You can create a GRUB bootable floppy with this fat12grldr.img file.

Or, you can just copy GRUB.EXE to your DOS floppy and run GRUB.EXE to enter the GRUB environment.
 
Old 11-20-2005, 01:54 AM   #11
Ynot Irucrem
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Quote:
Originally posted by tinybit
And GNU GRUB is not so robust, causing many problems during boot.
what sort of problems? I've never had a single problem with grub.

Quote:
Originally posted by saikee
I am just trying to find if there is a PC system that Grub cannot boot. Every time I fed it to Grub the bugger just ate it for breakfast. Think I call it a day if I hit 100.
on a related matter, does anyone know if grub can boot a cd yet? I've seen this method, but I wanted to know if grub can do it itself yet.

Last edited by Ynot Irucrem; 11-20-2005 at 01:57 AM.
 
Old 11-20-2005, 04:20 AM   #12
saikee
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I know DOS 7.10 supplied with Grub and one of its booting choice is to boot up a CD instead of from a hard disk or a floppy. Just tried it and it work OK.

I did move neccessary file to a hard disk but the test wasn't successful and I didn't look further. It is simple enough. May be I should get a bit deeper. Noramlly in Grub one can type reboot to transfer the booting to a CD (warm start).

I too did not have much problem with Grub as I used it attached to an operating system and have it residing in several partitions in the box, floppies and CDs.
--------------later addition-----

Ynot Irucrem,

Thanks for the tip. The web site appears to be doing a proper job to get Grub booting a CD. The simple floppy version, which has
Quote:
title to boot from a CD rom
root (fd0)
chainlder /boot/cdboot.bs
works only on floppy and fails to work in a hard disk when (fd0) was subsituted and the cdboot.bs file (512 bytes) copied to a partition. It appears that system hangs because the loading of cdboot.bs was too fast for its own good in the harddisk. To boot up a CD drive with a kernel and initrd looks like a proper job in the quoted web site.

Last edited by saikee; 11-20-2005 at 07:08 AM.
 
Old 11-20-2005, 07:42 AM   #13
tinybit
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> what sort of problems?

All sorts of problems. For instance, people repeatedly report that just after a correct and successful run of root (hd0,X) and setup (hd0) and reboot, the machine hangs. The same report comes to our Chinese forums about 1 per month.
 
Old 11-20-2005, 08:02 AM   #14
tinybit
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Note: The reports mentioned above is about GNU GRUB, because GRUB4DOS is not widely used and the old "root+setup" method is not recommended for use with GRUB4DOS. There is a new way of using BOOTLACE.COM to install GRLDR boot record to the MBR.
 
  


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