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Old 06-06-2006, 09:48 AM   #1
Micik
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different distributions and choosing appropriate


Hello people,
last week I have installed Mandrake linux 10.1 official download.
Since then I'm trying to install packages like anjuta and kdevelop because I want to start learning programming under linux. Unfortunatelly I'm not able to instll any of them. Now I wonder maybe it's because of my distribution, maybe it would go easier if I have chosen red hat?
From my experience I must say that windows is much better because once you install OS problem installing software is trivial, just click setup. On linux on the other hand is more difficult because it seems diferent distributions, even different version of sam distributions are not compatible.
Maybe I'm wrong but I have installed mandrake and need to install tons of softwere (not on 3 CDs of mandrake 10.1) just to install one small IDE.
What is your experience?
What can you do with linux anyway?
 
Old 06-06-2006, 10:12 AM   #2
tuxrules
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Micik
Hello people,
last week I have installed Mandrake linux 10.1 official download.
Since then I'm trying to install packages like anjuta and kdevelop because I want to start learning programming under linux. Unfortunatelly I'm not able to instll any of them. Now I wonder maybe it's because of my distribution, maybe it would go easier if I have chosen red hat?

Have you tried learning your distro or tried learning how to install software. Software install on Linux is not at all hard (with user-friendly distros) as it involves using the package manager that does all the hard work for you.

Quote:
From my experience I must say that windows is much better because once you install OS problem installing software is trivial, just click setup. On linux on the other hand is more difficult because it seems diferent distributions, even different version of sam distributions are not compatible.
By all means use Windows if that what you want but let me tell you this, you may have been using windows for years and you are probably using Linux for a week now. Can you really compare years of experience with one week.

I believe you need to know a little about internals before starting to learn programming. Two arguments for that position, one is that learning OS internals will help you program better, second, you need to maintain the system you are using.

Quote:
What can you do with linux anyway?
Whatever you can do with Windows and more. Frankly that is a very subjective question and depends on what you want to do. For me and many others here, Linux surpasses Windows usability so we use it.

BTW, every distro is good and essentially the same under the hood 95% of the time. They all use Linux kernel and GNU utilities

Tux,
 
Old 06-06-2006, 01:21 PM   #3
Micik
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Yes, I agree that years cannot be compared with one week but on the other hand I have never spent three days trying to install something in windows like I spent in linux (and I haven't successed yet). I would appreciate if someone download anjuta-1.2.4 from www.anjuta.org and try to install on it's distribution. Maybe probelm is package, but I doubt, I belive more people would noticed that.
I'll try to stay with linux some time, I think can manage it but only with things that are on Cd1, cd2 and cd3. Whatever I want to download from the internet I can see that it need a tons of other packages and software (different versions and similar) and immediately I loose my will.
 
Old 06-06-2006, 01:48 PM   #4
jeelliso
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I believe the problem is you're not approaching the installation issue correctly. It sounds like you are trying to install it from the source. This is by far the hardest way to install software. Mandrake is a very user-friendly distribution. You should read up about their package manager. Installing these programs will probably be just a couple of command from the terminal or a couple of clicks from a user interface. With Linux and its many distrobutions, you will probably only use a certain program's website to research the product. When you are ready to install it, you will need to use your distribution's software respository as these packages were compiled specifically for your system.

In fact, Mandrake 10.1 uses the apt-get package manager. This is the Debian software repository and is probably the largest Linux software repository available.

Here's a link to the Debian APT HOWTO.

Good Luck,
~Justin
 
Old 06-06-2006, 02:00 PM   #5
haertig
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Micik
... because I want to start learning programming under linux.
Sounds like you don't really want to put much effort into learning, based on the others things you've said.
Quote:
From my experience I must say that windows is much better...
I agree. I think Windows might be better for you.
Quote:
What can you do with linux anyway?
If you're not willing to put some effort into learning something new, I doubt there's much you'll be able to do with Linux. If this describes your position, you should abandon Linux and stick with Windows. I believe you'll be much happier. Linux is not for everybody. Those who want it to be Windows, and criticise it for not being Windows, are always disappointed. I'm afraid you will be disappointed. Sorry for being so blunt.
 
Old 06-06-2006, 05:12 PM   #6
Michael_aust
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use this site to set up repositories

http://easyurpmi.zarb.org/

these hold far more then the 3 cd's mandriva comes on. These also hold alot of dependences. So if you install applications via the gui tools in mandriva it will pull down all the dependencies for you.

At first sight linux application management seems more difficult. But i personally believe its easier then windows. With windows what can you update easily, only actural ms products and then not even all of them easily. All other applications you have to go to the sites downlaod the executable double click and click next a few times.

95% of software on users linux machiens is directly from the distributions repositories. So its one quick command to update the entire system. You dont have to go to the samba site and downlaod the latest patchs, then head over to openoffice and downlaod a whole new build, then to etc etc etc.
 
Old 06-06-2006, 05:50 PM   #7
LzW-x
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You know, installing software in windows really is easier a lot of times! (not always) I know this as a windows XP user but what is the choice? Either be compelled to upgrade to vista or learn linux! I'm going to learn linux!!! (I've read a lot of articles which make it clear that xp users will be locked out of future games and other vista-only software)

Here is my approach to learning...
- Setup a dual boot system
- Become somewhat familiar with the distro
- Learn how to do what you did in windows, in linux!
... this is about where I am at
- learn howto reconfigure linux, install new hardware, software all that!
- delete your XP partition...

I'm in XP right now! (it may be taboo to post here from XP, lol) Because I'm installing a second monitor and I never done that before... Once I see it works in XP, then I'll go make it work in linux! (I hope)

Almost forgot I wanted to say... Read a lot before you install stuff! It is pretty safe to install from a package manager (yast for suse) because they check dependancies. As a Windows user, you've likely heard of DllHell? In linux, welcome to LibHell... That said, if you get install errors (especially on tarball GZ's) it's often nothing you did wrong, just means it aint going to work on your system! (can fix that sometimes by putting in your distro cd's and installing more libs!)
 
Old 06-07-2006, 07:52 AM   #8
Micik
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Please don't get me wrong, I've been work with Windows for the last 10 years. In windows I double click setup icon on any software and that's it. In mandrake I double click on rpm file which I have downloaded from the Internet, software manager ask me if I want to install, I choose OK, and later i cannot find my software anywhere (codeblocks). I cannot install anjuta in any way.Please if someone can download anjuta 1.2.4 from www.anjuta.com and try to install.
I can unpack archive in GNOME manager, but to install it seems I need to go under console. Simply, procedure of installin software in general is blure to me.
And i do have willig to learn, it just so frustrating...
 
Old 06-07-2006, 09:20 AM   #9
brainiac
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If Mandrake 10.1 does indeed support apt-get, do yourself a favor and read up on apt as suggested above. Learn how to set up your repositories and believe me as a Debian fan it doesn't get any easier than apt to install software. I have less problems with software on my Debian machines than I do on my daughters XP box she plays games on.
 
Old 06-07-2006, 02:08 PM   #10
pixellany
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Micik
What can you do with linux anyway?
Maybe better to deal with this question first.....
The obvious comeback is "What do you WANT to do?" You already said programming. What kind of programming?

In general, I would see Linux as a platform of choice far many types of application development--unless of course, they are Windows apps...

Seriously, the best way to see what Linux is good for is to try it--one step at a time.
 
Old 06-07-2006, 04:02 PM   #11
Micik
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I have written socket programs under windows and want to start writting socket programs for linux. However I need to have solid IDE, since text editor + compiling +linking is out of date today.
However, I'll try to remove Mandrake and install ubuntu first since I have some problems wizh Mandrake (I hope problem is ditribution not my will for linux).
 
Old 06-07-2006, 06:13 PM   #12
haertig
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Micik
However I need to have solid IDE, since text editor + compiling +linking is out of date today.
Says who? What is it that you think and IDE is, other than a glorified "text editor + compiling + linking"? IDE's can certainly be nice, but if you confine yourself to only knowing how to work in one or two, then you limit yourself when you have to move to a different platform without your personal IDE installed. If you really want to learn how to program, learn without an IDE. Then use one if you choose to, not because you have to.
 
Old 06-07-2006, 11:54 PM   #13
Micik
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Hehe, I know the basics of programming, just want to take advantage of good IDE, because in my experience it's lot faster and easier to write code and testing it with on press of F% for example, than save file, type gcc... and then execution of file. Also good IDE have features such as code completion using which you can reduce error in your code (such as typing errors with structure's members). Dev-Cpp IDE for windows is very good but unfortunately I cant find appropriate for linux which I know how to install
 
Old 06-08-2006, 08:14 AM   #14
worzel68
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IDE for programming

I use Kdevelop for C++ and find it a fully featured IDE with a lot of automatic stuff that does make life easier, epecially if you have lots of classes ...

Within KDevelop I use QtDesigner for doing forms & the Umbrello application for doing class diagrams. There are lots of other diagam applications with more advanced features, but Umbrello suits me.

As far as comparing Linux & Windows goes - I would say that in linux one could do almost anything & whats more - most of the time it would be free!!

I find that Linux is a very well organised system which just works!

One huge advantage is the virtually NIL exposure to viruses under Linux.

Any way Good Luck in your Linux career & if you don't do anything else have fun!!
 
Old 06-08-2006, 10:18 AM   #15
tuxrules
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Quote:
Please don't get me wrong, I've been work with Windows for the last 10 years. In windows I double click setup icon on any software and that's it. In mandrake I double click on rpm file which I have downloaded from the Internet, software manager ask me if I want to install, I choose OK, and later i cannot find my software anywhere (codeblocks).
Again, you are bringing in your windows experience which is irrelevant here.

Quote:
I cannot install anjuta in any way.Please if someone can download anjuta 1.2.4 from www.anjuta.com and try to install.
I can unpack archive in GNOME manager, but to install it seems I need to go under console. Simply, procedure of installin software in general is blure to me.
And i do have willig to learn, it just so frustrating...
Looks like you are not following the advice given in this thread. You most likely are trying to install from source, which is good but you may require dependencies and may not be a good way for you to start Linux. Have you tried Mandrake's package manager??

Quote:
However, I'll try to remove Mandrake and install ubuntu first since I have some problems wizh Mandrake (I hope problem is ditribution not my will for linux).
If you are trying to install from source then no matter what distro you use, it is going to complain about dependencies. Linux uses shared libraries and small programs (Unix philosophy) doing exactly what they are designed to do. Again if you install from source, you would have to install all those dependencies too. There is no way around it. I doubt if your distro is the problem.

Quote:
However I need to have solid IDE, since text editor + compiling +linking is out of date today.
Your point of view but not really true. Ever tried emacs?

Tux,
 
  


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