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Old 08-28-2017, 11:23 AM   #1
MrMeeSeeks
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desktop environments, especially KDE - without an entire distribution


Hey there.

So I thought I might take a look at a bunch of desktop environments before deciding on one for my planned debian-system.
Now, I am currently using xubuntu, so I've got xfce and xubuntu-desktop installed, and I wanted to install kde - however, google provided only the following answers: install kubuntu-desktop, which I don't want to, install kde-full which simply does not exist (anymore) in the dpkg and which I couldn't find anywhere either, or install a distribution using kde - which is what even the kde-homepage seems to provide as its only advice, and which I don't want to do.

So, is there some "standalone" kde-suite?

Best regards

Last edited by MrMeeSeeks; 08-28-2017 at 11:27 AM.
 
Old 08-28-2017, 11:32 AM   #2
jsbjsb001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMeeSeeks View Post
Hey there.

So I thought I might take a look at a bunch of desktop environments before deciding on one for my planned debian-system.
Now, I am currently using xubuntu, so I've got xfce and xubuntu-desktop installed, and I wanted to install kde - however, google only provided only the following answers: install kubuntu-desktop, which I don't want to, install kde-full which simply does not exist (anymore) in the dpkg and which I couldn't find anywhere either, or install a distribution using kde - which is what even the kde-homepage seems to provide as its only advice, and which I don't want to do.

So, is there some "standalone" kde-suite?

Best regards
If your asking what I'm thinking you are... don't think so, at least, if there is, I don't know of it. Kubuntu is basically Ubuntu with KDE desktop environment instead of the Unity graphical environment. I use KDE myself, you could try something like openSUSE or PCLinuxOS (among others) instead.

Wiki page for Kubuntu is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kubuntu

Hope this helps.
 
Old 08-28-2017, 11:37 AM   #3
MrMeeSeeks
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Well, I appreciate your answer, but still: installing an entire distribution or a distribution-specific kde-package is not what I had in mind.
As far as I can see, there are core or base-packages for xfce and GNOME, so my general idea at least as of now does not seem entirely moronic to me. But now specifically with kde - there really is no "non-distribution" meta-package? So I would have to completely build it from the plethora of source-packages dpkg turns up?
Because, any and all build-how-tos I could find so far are not up to date as it seems; at least they reference packages not available via dpkg or to be found for download elsewhere.

Last edited by MrMeeSeeks; 08-28-2017 at 11:43 AM.
 
Old 08-28-2017, 11:43 AM   #4
jsbjsb001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMeeSeeks View Post
Well, I appreciate your answer, but still: installing an entire distribution or a distribution-specific kde-package is not what I had in mind.
As far as I can see, there are core or base-packages for xfce and GNOME, so my general idea at least as of now does not seem entirely moronic to me. But now specifically with kde - there really is no "non-distribution" meta-package? So I would have to completely build it from the plethora of source-packages dpkg turns up?
I'm not real clear on what your asking here?

If once again it's what I'm thinking... the desktop environment is technically speaking not a part of the operating system in the Linux/UNIX world, in other words, Linux does not care if you have any graphical environment installed or not. So, you still need the underlying system, to run any graphical environment.
 
Old 08-28-2017, 11:49 AM   #5
MrMeeSeeks
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Yes.
So why should I install SuSE, when I have a kernel and all my stuff already, just to look at the kde window manager and stuff?
I mean, I appreciate there probably is little difference between a kde desktop environment and kubuntu minus the kernel and general shell, which might be quite exactly what kubuntu-desktop is - but I still feel like there should be packages that allow installing kde on a running system that are not something like distribution-specific builds. Like - as it seems - there are with xfce and GNOME.

I hope I could clarify what I'm asking, because it seems like you assume I want something quite different from what I'm aiming at.

What I actually want is a X login screen that would let me choose whether I want to start an xfce or a kde session - much like now it lets me choose between an xfce and an xubuntu-desktop session - only that I don't particularly would like to resort to kubuntu-desktop, or any other "customization" of kde.

Last edited by MrMeeSeeks; 08-28-2017 at 11:52 AM.
 
Old 08-28-2017, 11:54 AM   #6
jsbjsb001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMeeSeeks View Post
Yes.
So why should I install SuSE, when I have a kernel and all my stuff already, just to look at the kde window manager and stuff?
I mean, I appreciate there probably is little difference between a kde desktop environment and kubuntu minus the kernel and general shell, which might be quite exactly what kubuntu-desktop is - but I still feel like there should be packages that allow installing kde on a running system that are not something like distribution-specific builds. Like - as it seems - there are with xfce and GNOME.

I hope I could clarify what I'm asking, because it seems like you assume I want something quite different from what I'm aiming at.
Well, I know you can install KDE on at least some of the other distro's, that may use a different desktop environment by default, openSUSE for one offers you a choice when you run it's installation program and you can install KDE afterwards as well, if you installed a different one, at the time of install.

You would need to install the necessary packages though your package manager.
 
Old 08-28-2017, 12:00 PM   #7
MrMeeSeeks
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Yes!
Now that is basically my question - are there distribution-independent meta-packages - kde seems to be a framework consisting of around at least a hundred packages as it seems - or at least build-tutorials that would explain how to build kde for a given installation from the available packages.
Doesn't seem like it. I appreciate your willingness to help very much though. I guess I'll just have a look at GNOME and MATE and so on which seem to provide what MATE calls "vanilla" packages.

Thanks a lot again though.
 
Old 08-28-2017, 12:05 PM   #8
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Quote:
so I've got xfce and xubuntu-desktop installed, and I wanted to install kde - however, google provided only the following answers: install kubuntu-desktop, which I don't want to
Why not??? That's the recommended method for installing the kde desktop environment on an existing *buntu installation which doesn't have kde already installed:

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InstallingKDE

Per the above link, could also try:
Code:
sudo apt-get install kde-plasma-desktop
 
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Old 08-28-2017, 12:21 PM   #9
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Why do you not want to install kubuntu-desktop?

Anyway, Debian doesn't play Ubuntu style games with "different" distributions for each desktop environment. They're all just packages in Debian. The one for Debian's default KDE install is "task-kde-desktop". There are also minimal (kde-plasma-desktop) and full (kde-full) metapackages in Debian.

Like it or not, Debian does put its own tweaks into each desktop environment available also. So, if you really want to see how things would be for your future Debian system, the best way is to try it out with Debian. You can install onto a USB drive or an extra partition (I'd recommend 8+ GB, depending on how much stuff you're planning on trying out).
 
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Old 08-28-2017, 12:58 PM   #10
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Well, fair enough.
Since at this point this really does not serve anything in particular but a strange whim of mine I'll just get on with it, use kubuntu-desktop and try to reach a decision for my debian already.

Last edited by MrMeeSeeks; 08-28-2017 at 01:04 PM.
 
Old 08-28-2017, 01:03 PM   #11
IsaacKuo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMeeSeeks View Post
Well, fair enough.

Speaking of Debian-USB-sticks: I was thinking of following 4.3.3 here, because it seemed the most sensible approach for a 16GB stick, but I'm confused as to how this:
Those instructions are for putting the Debian installer on a USB stick. You can then boot up that installer, just like the CD, and use it to install Debian on something else (like an internal hard drive or a different USB stick).

I have never followed those directions. I have a perfectly working CD writer and a ton of CDR's left over from the last time I bought a batch. So I still just burn the small netinst Debian installer to CD and use that.

The Debian installer sees any plugged in USB drives just like any internal drives. Installing onto a USB drive is done the same way as installing onto an internal drive. Personally, I always choose manual partitioning and I create just one ext4 partition on the desired drive for "/". I do not create a swap partition (the installer gives a warning to make sure I really want to NOT create any swap partition).
 
Old 08-28-2017, 02:19 PM   #12
MrMeeSeeks
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Well I had trouble finding the files they were referring to.
I figured if I did it this way I might actually get the installer to offer a bunch of images to install from and not run into this problem:

Quote:
Note that, although convenient, this method does have one major disadvantage: the logical size of the device will be limited to 1 GB, even if the capacity of the USB stick is larger. You will need to repartition the USB stick and create new file systems to get its full capacity back if you ever want to use it for some different purpose.
 
Old 08-28-2017, 02:33 PM   #13
suicidaleggroll
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMeeSeeks View Post
Now, I am currently using xubuntu, so I've got xfce and xubuntu-desktop installed, and I wanted to install kde - however, google provided only the following answers: install kubuntu-desktop, which I don't want to
The kubuntu-desktop group won't install an entire new distribution, it will only install those packages required by kubuntu-desktop that are not already installed on your xubuntu-desktop. In other words, kde.
 
Old 08-28-2017, 04:37 PM   #14
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What I use to install a minimal xfce4 desktop is:

Code:
sudo apt-get install --no-install-recommends xfce4
Depending on the distro I'm working with that adds approx 32MB to 80MB.

So I experimented with "kde-full" which would have added approx 1500MB

"kde-standard" would add approx 950MB

And "kde-plasma-desktop" adds about 650MB

Last edited by DVOM; 08-28-2017 at 04:40 PM.
 
Old 08-28-2017, 05:05 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IsaacKuo View Post
Why do you not want to install kubuntu-desktop?

Anyway, Debian doesn't play Ubuntu style games with "different" distributions for each desktop environment. They're all just packages in Debian. The one for Debian's default KDE install is "task-kde-desktop". There are also minimal (kde-plasma-desktop) and full (kde-full) metapackages in Debian.

Like it or not, Debian does put its own tweaks into each desktop environment available also. So, if you really want to see how things would be for your future Debian system, the best way is to try it out with Debian. You can install onto a USB drive or an extra partition (I'd recommend 8+ GB, depending on how much stuff you're planning on trying out).
To expand on this, to install a desktop environment in Debian one installs a meta-package for that DE (in this case kde-plasma-desktop) then it becomes available at the graphical login screen.
The reason your original question was confusing is that different distributions will name the desktop environment packages differently though, generally, they will behave in the same way.
It appears, unless I'm the one misreading things here, that you are confusing KDE the desktop environment with Kubuntu the Linux Distribution.
Personally, on my Debian installs I use XFCE but almost always have at least Gnome installed also and, generally, KDE and another one or two DEs depending on the system.
 
  


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