computer on the ropes
 

Update to this post. I got the computer working but I'm still not ready to call this 'solved.' See the latest post at #5. Thanks.

I'm running Xubuntu 16.04LTS. The computer is a custom build and normally works great, but since my last upgrade from 15.10 to 16.04 I've been having problems, most notably an 18 minute boot up time. I've tried tons of fixes. Nothing worked. I learned to live with it.

However, lately I had to remove the ethernet cord and when I replaced it I lost the little functionality I had, including the 18 minute boot.

I was able to get in via the recovery mode so I saved my data, but nothing else (I used to be able to boot to an older kernel via the grub loader) is working.

I was going to try to run the computer from a disc but now I can't even seem to get into the BIOS. (F12 gets me into this rudimentary boot menu that doesn't work. F2 does nothing. F8 and F12 get me into the grub loader.)

I feel I'd have a chance to at least run it from the installation disc if I could get into the BIOS. Any ideas on how to do it?

And I'm not even sure that's optimal because I won't be using the latest kernel. And I wonder if functionality will suffer.

And one more observation: the red light is often on at the ethernet port. I opened the computer and that ethernet connection is part of the motherboard so there were no cables to tighten. I tightened whatever cables there were. It made no difference.

I could take the computer to a tech guy near me but I'm pretty sure he'll charge me a hundred just to look at it. I think I'd be better off just buying a refurbished machine at Newegg for a hundred.

Thanks.

My ethernet problem ended up being a bad cable. The light would not light up on the back of the computer. So even though the cable is new. I'd replace it again with a good used one to be sure.

For the bios. Pull the cmos battery and leave it out for 15 minutes or so with the power unplugged from the back and no power what so ever to the computer. Reinstall cmos battery and cross your fingers the bios resets to it's defaults.

For borked Ubuntu 16 upgrade/install. Md5sum new iso. Back up old stuff to external 1TB usb hard drive. Then do a fresh install and start over.

Been there. Done that. Numerous times.

I'm guessing you don't have an ethernet card just lying around, or you'd already have tried using that. Because it sounds like your motherboard has problems, and at the very least the ethernet hardware is not working properly. That's a common failure, and it can either happen with nothing else going bad - or it can be alongside other stuff going bad.

A cheap replacement is a good option, IMO. If you look for off-lease corporate fleet laptops, you can get a rather usable laptop from eBay for $30. Basically, you do a search for "Fujitsu Lifebook" or some other common laptop branding and look for a big group of obviously near-identical listings from a seller. Look for auctions rather than "buy it now", because you'll be able to get an auction cheaper. Because there are so many identical listings, you just have to be patient and you'll be able to get something for the low starting bid eventually.

Typically, such used laptops have no hard drive (which may be an issue for you since your hard drive is probably a big 3.5" drive), and no power supply. But you can get a Fujitsu Lifebook power supply for $6 on eBay, so that's not a big deal.

Thanks rokytnji. I checked that the cable works with another computer. The computer actually came on after a half hour or so. I don't know why. I will definitely do your cmos battery reinstall if I have more trouble. I fortunately was able to back stuff up from recovery mode. I also did the fresh install, but I think I did it with the same disk twice. The disk was Md5sum checked and passed. Still if I do it again I'll be sure to do it with a new iso.

Since you say 'been there, done that. Numerous times.' Is this an issue only with Xubuntu or all kinds of Ubuntu distros?

I was thinking of trying Mint (if I can acess the BIOS, that is) but really the problem seems to be with the computer and not with the Xubuntu.

It's been a good lesson in backing up data regularly. I got pretty lax there--and pretty panicked when it wouldn't boot.

Thanks Isaac. Yeah, no Ethernet card lying around. And I'm still newbie enough that I wouldn't have known what to do if it was. :) The only reason I'm not convinced the problem might not be a hardware issue is because all the dysfunction started with the upgrade. But who knows.

Great tips about buying on eBay. I am using a desktop but sounds like I might apply the same startegy with that. Appreciate it.

Just ubuntu upgrades and tests with systemd installation on a non systemd compatible distro.

PS. I get free desktop computers from my City Hall. Cuz I am special.

http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...d-deliver-174/

My free media center in my motorcycle shop <wireless>

Edit: Just for info. I have found delayed Ubuntu bootup due to looking for Bluetooth. Installing a cheap bluetooth usb solved that for me.

Hi Gregg...

I remember the other thread you had concerning the 18 minute boot-up problem. Since you backed everything up, try wiping the hard drive and reinstalling Xubuntu (or Mint) from scratch and see if that resolves the problem. I'd be curious. If the problem continues, you could always go back to the previous version or try another distribution. :)

Regards...

Try other distributions that are not Ubuntu based (Mint is Ubuntu based btw) and see if you still have a lag in boot up time.
If you don't than it's most likely not a hardware issue.

-::-In some cases recompiling the kernel can make certain problems go away.-::-

Give Fedora or CentOS a spin:-
https://spins.fedoraproject.org/
https://www.centos.org/download/

Debian is another good choice-:)
https://www.debian.org/distrib/

I've ran all 3 distributions over the years and they never had any delays in boot time or gave me any performance issues.:)

Despite the problems only starting after an upgrade, that sounds like a hardware problem. Updating a BIOS can have similar effects.
It's a lot to take in, but here's a flow chart that deals with most hardware issues:
http://www.fonerbooks.com/poster.pdf
Basically: unplug all peripherals (including extension cards and storage devices), check power supply, check memory, try peripherals one by one, try peripherals together, check storage device.

@ OP

"The only reason I'm not convinced the problem might not be a hardware issue is because all the dysfunction started with the upgrade. But who knows"
-----------------------

I ran into similar issues attempting to install newer sistros on older laptop.

Ended up to be misaligned partitions on the SSD in one instance. With another, I thought it may be the opical disc drive (also an attempt at a 'buntu 16.04 install that failed) but was wrong, again! I took time to make sure of no overlapping partitions, changed out the RAM sticks (replacing them with an identical set) and made sure the optics on odd were clean, and tried again.

Results? any distro with systemd caused prolems on my old machine. One Debian distro that touts itself as 'non-systemd' left remnanats of a GPT tabel at end of hdd and I had to wipe it before attempting another install. Two different ubuntu-based distros (I wanted netflix) -- Lite and Mint -- failed me.

I think it is because, on upgrade, EFIs with apparently unbreakable 'dependencies' on systemd are installed. As you say, "Who knows!"

Upshot -- i am now using Scientific and Salix.
Debian/Ubuntu are now intertwined, it seems to me. I will treat them as such. (Aside: I wonder what Ian Murdoch would say?)

Re: kernel. Scientific 7.2 uses as 3.10 kernel ootb.

BTW, I have a new in-the-box SystemVinit desktop mobo (smaller form factor, I can't remember which) for AMD. If interested, private message me.

sidzen

gregg bell, i helped you with one or two issues a while back.

when i noticed that you were amassing problems & threads, i thought: ok, he wants to learn the hard way. can't say i did much better in my early linux days.

...well, by now i get the impression that you're in over your head & suffering.
i think you should put a plug in it.
maybe try to install & actually use a system, instead of borking it over and over?
meaning, just stick to the defaults, and if you have a real problem (e.g. wifi) read & understand BEFORE you start messing around.

relevant xkcd comic:
https://xkcd.com/456/

That looks like a link, but isn't, so I couldn't check out your history.
Custom built how long ago? What model motherboard, and power supply? Are they old enough for crud buildup to have made it time for cleaning and inspection? Delays are a common result of failing hardware, often electrolytic caps going or gone bad in the PS, especially if the PS was included in the price of a budget-priced case.

Ardvark, this is probably bordering on Linux heresy but I'm just living with the problem. At this point I'm figuring only a new computer will solve the problem and this computer works great once it boots up so I'm not getting a new computer. I lost track of this thread and apologize for the late reply.

Thanks Ztcoracat. I tried to run the computer off a disc and even that was a hassle (including the 18 minute boot time). For right now I'm living with the boot time because besides that the computer runs great. Sorry for the late response--I lost track of the thread.

Thanks Weapon. Sorry for the late response. I lost track of the thread and the computer was working good (it still had the 18 minute boot time though) so I decided to live with the delayed boot time. That is one amazing flow chart. If I knew more I might tackle it but for now I'll just keep bluffing. ;)

Thanks Sidzen. Seems to me a lot of people had problems with the 16.04 upgrade. I was hoping the software updates would take care of it but no luck. Anyway, sorry for the delayed response--I lost track of the thread. And the computer is working good so for now I'm going to live with the delayed boot time. (And call this thread 'solved.') Thanks for mentioning the mobo you've got but like I said the computer works great so I'll stick with it for now. Appreciate it.

Good advice, ondoho. Well taken. Thanks. And sorry for the late response.

Thanks mrmazda and sorry about the delayed response. I did open the case and everything looked really new. (I didn't buy the computer. Windows crashed on it for somebody at work and they were going to throw it out.) I checked all the cable connections--everything was tight. Going to live with the delayed boot time because the computer works great.

Again you didn't report a computer or motherboard model, so it's impossible to make any suggestions based upon your hardware. Early on you said "custom", but later reported somebody at work was going to throw it out. So, it's age and what's in it are hard to guess. Could it be that it has a floppy drive? If so, disconnect it and turn it off in the BIOS. Apparently, few developers use machines with floppy drives any more, so if some patch causes a floppy-related problem, catching it is likely to be a matter of luck long after the bug is born. I've seen various delays in recent years caused because a floppy drive was present. I reported one in openSUSE's tracker about 4 years ago, and another 18 months ago. Maybe you have found one.

No problem, I hope you get it resolved eventually, whichever direction you choose. :)

Regards...

Your Welcome-;)
18 minutes to boot!?#:-::-?

Something is definitely not right and or became misconfigured.

This wouldn't be the first time that I've seen an upgrade break a Ubuntu based distro.It happened to me when I was running Ubuntu a long time ago. At that time an upgrade broke the fglrx driver and reinstalling it fixed it.

Try turning off things like bluetooth and other services that you don't need.
Disable unessary kernel modules, use a light weight window mgr instead of KDE or Gnome as they are RAM hogs.

If you have tried all of that that a fresh install may be the only answer.

Do you suspect that the config boot file or the bootloader is broken?
Have you tried boot repair?

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Boot-Repair

Thanks mrmazda. The computer is not a commercial typical brand like Dell. A computer tech guy built the computer in a generic case. There was no floppy drive. It has a DVD player/recorder instead. It's pretty new.

I've wondered about the BIOS being the culprit. Honestly, I've just gotten tired of battling it.

Ardvark. :) (You da man!)

Hey Ztcoracat.

I did a million and a half things with this already. Some Linux master guy had me fixing packages, analyzing this and that and this and running all these diagnostic tests. Then it just got silly.

I did do a fresh install. The problem remained.

Really I'm just not going to stress about it anymore. The computer works great. So what--I have to turn it on and wait a bit. I can live with that.

P.S. I bookmarked the boot repair link. If I get the emotional wherewithal to tackle this again I'll give it a shot. Thanks!

If the fresh install gives you the 18 minute boot delay you could always roll back to the previous kernel. One last thought; recompiling the kernel sometimes makes things go away.;)

Since you like Xubuntu you might like Voyager. Voyager ran great for me.
http://voyagerlive.org/

Good luck-

Praise God for what I am. ;)

Thanks Ztcoracat. It got so funky with this thing. I don't know how to recompile a kernel but the computer would boot from an old kernel via the grubloader but after a while even that stopped working. Now I'm grateful that it's working properly (even with the delay). And that's the first I've heard of Voyager. Thanks for sharing that.

You are wonderfully sold out, friend. An inspiration and encouragement to the likes of me.

Your Welcome.;)

I ran Voyager for about a year. It's a lot like Xubuntu with a nice spin and lot's of beautiful wallpapers.

Thank you, I'm glad that the Lord has used me (and given to me of Himself) to be able to be that for you! Likewise, I look forward to seeing you on here and am glad I've gotten to know you a bit. Learning how to work on and fix computers can be challenging and you've definitely shown some persistence in your efforts. :)

Something else I want you to know, too. Jesus loves very much "the likes of you" and you are worth every bit to Him the sacrifice on the Cross He paid for all of us. I don't belong to an exclusive club and all that I've received in Him (which includes eternal and abundant life) is available to you and everyone else, as well. You're invited! It won't always be easy but every sin I've given up and am learning to walk away from has been well worth it, receiving His freedom instead. :)

I'm not sure if you've seen it yet but if you want to read about the "likes of me" before I received Him, you can see it here. ;)

Regards and thanks again...

@ Gregg Bell, anyone who can endure an 18 minute boot time, probably deserves a medal for patience.:D

Thanks Ztcoracat. Hey, I like your website. Nice giraffe!

Wow, what a story, Ardvark. No doubt God has done some amazing things with you.

Ha ha. A medal! All right! Thanks!

Double Digit Minutes to Boot
 

Don't be too quick to assume that whatever is wrong is something OP might actually have any control over. I'd be interested to have some idea where OP's delays occur, whether kernel loading, initrd loading, and/or at various points during the init process.

Starting about 18 months ago, with kernels as old as 3.16, some kernel/initrd pairs began resulting in insufferable delays simply getting init started. This has happened on two different machines, with multiple distros (only those using Dracut), even though the machines operate normally once booted, and show no signs of hardware trouble from memtest or hdparm. I've reported this at least twice on mailing lists, initially on linux-ide, then initramfs. If or where else I don't remember. The delays varied, but resulted in boot times as long as 13 minutes, and without starting X.

I've uninstalled most kernels that produced such delays, but in its current configuration on host big41, these take too long for the boot loader vmlinuz and initrd loading messages to clear, followed by otherwise ordinary (no Plymouth) inits:

Fedora 25 4.8.rc1git0.1 (roughly 3 minutes to shell prompt)
openSUSE Tumbleweed 4.7.2 (sda10)(110 seconds to shell prompt)

All these on same host boot without undo delay:

Fedora 25: 4.5.rc6.git2.1, 4.6.rc1.git0.1 & 4.7.rc3.git2.1
Fedora 24 & Rawhide (all)
openSUSE Tumbleweed: 4.7.2 (sda23), 4.6.4, 4.5.2 4.4.3, 4.3.3
openSUSE 42.1, 13.2 & 13.1 (all)
AntiX 16 4.4.8
Jessie 4.5
Kubuntu 14.0 3.16
Mageia 5 4.4.16
Stretch 4.6 & 4.2

:p

Thanks!-;)

Your right assuming isn't a good practice.

Do you suspect kernel regression? What other initialization processes could things be taking so long?

Do you think a new kernel is the answer?

Not highly.
That's one of the reasons why I posted my questions to those mailing lists. Another is these delays apparently happen before any logging starts, and I don't know how to gather usable clues so early.

It happened with lots of kernels. Many times, rebuilding the initrd (sometime multiple times) solved the problem only to have it resurrect in a newer kernel. Remember, my list, except for one, was only of currently installed kernels on one machine of two. It excludes virtually all the many removed in the past 18 months, and those on the other machine.

IIRC, not only did it never happen with a mkinitrd image, but it also always happened and happens on EXT4 filesystems, not on EXT3. Several times early in my attempts to pin it down I tried creating a new EXT3, rsyncing from EXT4, and the same kernels/initrds worked fine.

I'm thinking these delays are actually more common than what I wrote may have implied, just more often with much shorter delays in maybe the 2-5 second range. And, those with short delays occur on far more than two of my machines, maybe all. Once upon a time, the bootloader's kernel/initrd loading messages would flash on and off so fast it was impossible to read them start to finish. That seems to not happen any more as often as it does, but I suppose that could be a function of when the kernel decides to clear what bootloader wrote to display rather than bootloader doing its own clearing.

My primary speculation is that storage access is wrested from the BIOS later than it used to be before UEFI became common, leaving many devs using solid state drives in no position to notice anything that causes a nominal slowdown at such an early stage of IPL, while the kernels and initrds just keep bloating with new functionality. Another speculation that could play into this is that devs I think are mostly assuming or even using Plymouth, and I'm not, except on a few installations where Plymouth removal would eradicate half the installation due to idiotic deps.

I don't read code or build, limiting what I can do to identify any cause.

That stinks:-

In some cases plymouth has generated an issue with booting.
http://askubuntu.com/questions/46537...t-ubuntu-14-04

I'm wondering if it's a plymouth-upstart-bridge Issue? Or maybe the kernel thinks that Plymouth is running to fast? (something to think about)
https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2218100

Without seeing the boot up myself I can't pin down what is causing the delay.
I'd think that reading through the dmseg log should provide some clues why this delay for the boot.

If plymouth is the culprit than disabeling the splash screen and plymouth in grub might be the answer.
I'm still learning to read code and it's not easy. Don't build; not there yet:-

I'll be running Testing soon so I can learn and possibly learn a fix for this.
Booting shouldn't really take more than 2 min's if that.;)

Have you gotten a response from the mailing lists?

*buntu is one of my fewest installations, so there's no guarantee it's among those ever experiencing the problem. Most are 14.10 or older. I don't know if these ever switched from mkinitrd to dracut.

I always do the best I know how to keep Plymouth from participating in the boot process. It's not installed on any openSUSE or Fedora. Bootloader stanzas where it is installed typically have any of noplymouth, plymouth=0, plymouth.enable=0 or whatever I thought might appropriate to the distro.

All cmdlines include splash=disable or splash=0. None include quiet.

Dmesg IIRC always seems to include times that began after the delay has passed.

No useful mailing list responses.

Hurricane Hermine is about to flood here, so more will have to come later, if ever.

Sorry to hear you haven't gotten any responses.

I sincerely hope it doesn't flood:-
It's headed my way Saturday.

Stay safe guys.

11" deep in the house.

Oh God. So sorry.

Sorry mrmazda. I was really grieved when I read you message.

I hope you can rebuild.