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Old 08-24-2018, 03:41 AM   #16
joe_2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jiajia View Post
NOW, THE PROBLEM IS, For the data partition, is that where all my personal files would go or is that a place just for config files?
Hmm, I am confused. I hoped that my previous post explicitly explained that the data partition is for personal files, and not config files. If you can help me understand what part of my explanation was confusing I'll try and improve it.

But to answer the question again: Config files should be individual for each distro, and hence not go onto the (shared) data partition.
 
Old 08-24-2018, 03:48 AM   #17
zeebra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe_2000 View Post
As far as the separate /home is concerned: Using the same /home partition for different distros is not a good idea because they will each be overwriting the config files of the others. Better create a pure data partition and mount it under e.g. /mnt/data. Then create a symlink pointing to it in your home. That way, each distro gets to have their own config files.
Another advantage: You don't need to use a windows readable filesystem for your /home. If you want to access your data from windows I recommend making the data partition ntfs. (Only do this if you really need to access the data from windows, as ntfs has many shortcomings then can be annoying)
That's not entirely true. You can use different usernames for each distro, and so have seperate folders in /home. It is preferable to make a seperate /home partition, as this makes migration to new distro versions easier if it is not a rolling one. Alternatively you just make a custom /home folder for each user when you create the user, you do not have to go with the standard choice of /home/username.

Don't use NTFS for your /home. If you really need to share files between Windows and GNU/Linux, it is easier to make an NTFS partition and mount this somewhere on home and share files through it.

Don't let Windows control your use, there are ways around the lacks and weaknesses of Windows, and it does not involve making bad choices to accomodate Windows.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pholland View Post
My preference would be to use the smaller hard drive solely for linux. The larger drive could be mostly for Windows with maybe a 100-150 GB data storage partition for the linux OSes to use.
My preference would be to use no disk for Windows at all, and just assign diskspace for Windows as a virtual machine, but that's not what we are talking about. With GNU/Linux you can easily access your Windows files, so any overflow of data on a smaller Windows partition can be moved over to any GNU/Linux partition.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmazda View Post
There's no point in being concerned about installing Windows after Linux if you prepare in advance.
The fact that Windows installations never give you a choice of anything, should be a concern to most people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jiajia View Post
NOW, THE PROBLEM IS, For the data partition, is that where all my personal files would go or is that a place just for config files?
This is not an issue. Most distroes now have a scheme where they put folders into /home/username, alike to "documents", "music", "pictures" etc. Or if you do things yourself you will most likely make a folder in /home/username yourself and put your data there. In regular use, this or these folders will be visible, while "config" folders/files will not be visible. So, actually everything is in /home/username, config files AND files/folders, but it is not a problem. So /home/username is where ALL your files would go, config files and personal files, but preferably your personal files would not go directly into /home/username as this will look messy and make it more difficult to see config files easily.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmazda View Post
If you're going the UEFI route, I suggest the following template:
Code:
sda1    320MB FAT EFI/ESP
sda2    100MB NTFS Windows reserved
sda3  48000MB NTFS Windows OS
sda4  96000MB NTFS Windows data 
sda5   4100MB Linux swap
sda6  18000MB EXT4 Linux root #1 distro
sda7  18000MB EXT4 Linux root #2 alternate or version next distro
sda8  18000MB EXT4 Linux root #3 alpha/beta distro testing
sda9 275480MB EXT4 Linux home
I think that is a good suggestion that could work well for TS.

Last edited by zeebra; 08-24-2018 at 04:04 AM.
 
Old 08-24-2018, 03:54 AM   #18
joe_2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmazda View Post
(which I would be mounting to /home/data and/or /home/$USER/data, not /mnt).
I'd be genuinely interested to hear your reasons.
 
Old 08-24-2018, 04:12 AM   #19
mrmazda
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe_2000 View Post
I'd be genuinely interested to hear your reasons.
Convenience when opening a file picker or file manager, or backup/restore. Fewer physical actions to get from the default open/save location to the target location. After all, /home is intended for user data, whether pictures, movies, settings, spreadsheets, letters, mp3s, etc.

/data is not part of FHS. / is considered root territory.
 
Old 08-24-2018, 04:14 AM   #20
joe_2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeebra View Post
That's not entirely true. You can use different usernames for each distro, and so have seperate folders in /home. It is preferable to make a seperate /home partition, as this makes migration to new distro versions easier if it is not a rolling one. Alternatively you just make a custom /home folder for each user when you create the user, you do not have to go with the standard choice of /home/username.
You are deciding to fight a different set of inconveniences here, some of which require more in-depth knowledge of the setup during installation. The separate home partition for migration to a new distro version is only relevant if you are using a distro that doesn't support upgrading, which imho in itself is a reason to not use to begin with.

At the end of the day, this is a matter of taste. So while I can see your points, I would humbly disagree that this suggestion would make the OP's life easier.
 
Old 08-24-2018, 04:16 AM   #21
joe_2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmazda View Post
Convenience when opening a file picker or file manager, or backup/restore. Fewer physical actions to get from the default open/save location to the target location. After all, /home is intended for user data, whether pictures, movies, settings, spreadsheets, letters, mp3s, etc..
...is what I would address by symlinking to the mountpoint from the user's home

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmazda View Post
Convenience when opening a file picker or file manager, or backup/restore. Fewer physical actions to get from the default open/save location to the target location. After all, /home is intended for user data, whether pictures, movies, settings, spreadsheets, letters, mp3s, etc.

/data is not part of FHS. / is considered root territory.
Agreed, but I did not suggest /data but /mnt/data, and in my understanding /mnt is meant to be used for mount points according to FHS.
 
Old 08-24-2018, 04:25 AM   #22
mrmazda
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeebra View Post
TS
???
 
Old 08-24-2018, 04:30 AM   #23
mrmazda
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe_2000 View Post
in my understanding /mnt is meant to be used for mount points according to FHS.
"Temporary" (transient) mounts, not fulltime mounts.
 
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Old 08-24-2018, 04:35 AM   #24
joe_2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmazda View Post
"Temporary" (transient) mounts, not fulltime mounts.
I don't think the FHS specifies a location for fulltime mounts, which brings /mnt closest to it I guess. At the same time you have a point when saying that /home is meant for userdata.
 
Old 08-24-2018, 07:06 AM   #25
fyzx92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe_2000 View Post
To solve this problem, my suggestion is not mounting a separate partition under home. That means that the directory /home/joe will have different contents between distro1 and distro2. Under /home/joe you will have a symlink that points to e.g. /mnt/data, which is the mountpoint for the data partition.
During normal usage, it will feel as if "data" was a subdirectory of /home/joe on both distros, and the content will be the same. That's where you documents, music etc. goes.
I think I've got it, but want to double check
I have OS1, OS2, and data on separate partitions, OS1 and OS2 each has its own /home directory which is visible only to it's respective OS.
Within each OS specific /home directory are the config and program files.
Then the data partition is mounted within that OS (with a symbolic link, depending on mount location).
This would effectively become my general-use home directory. So the default /home/$USER directory effectively becomes just a place for configuration files, while the data partition (does it need its own empty folder?) holds my documents and files, and can be mounted to any number of distros, assuming compatible file systems.






One other question about this, since I haven't used Linux extensively
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmazda View Post

If you're going the UEFI route, I suggest the following template:
Code:
sda1    320MB FAT EFI/ESP
sda2    100MB NTFS Windows reserved
sda3  48000MB NTFS Windows OS
sda4  96000MB NTFS Windows data 
sda5   4100MB Linux swap
sda6  18000MB EXT4 Linux root #1 distro
sda7  18000MB EXT4 Linux root #2 alternate or version next distro
sda8  18000MB EXT4 Linux root #3 alpha/beta distro testing
sda9 275480MB EXT4 Linux home
Use sdb as data backup and/or overflow. Sizes of root partitions really depend on how much software you expect to use. If you're going to use BTRFS for root, then double the size to 40GB or more. If you plan on building your own software, more than 18GB is probably a good idea for EXT4, and much more than 40GB for BTRFS.
what is alpha/beta distro testing, and how necessary is it as a partition?
 
Old 08-24-2018, 07:26 AM   #26
mrmazda
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fyzx92 View Post
One other question about this, since I haven't used Linux extensively
what is alpha/beta distro testing, and how necessary is it as a partition?
Linux distros are primarily made up of free software. Testing alpha and beta development versions of free software is a means to give something back even though you are not a programmer. By testing you may be able to find and then report bugs that developers fail to find. If no one gives, there is nothing free for you to use. If you never give back, you have no legitimate authority to complain when anything is broken.

Testing involves risk that you don't want mixed into your everyday OS, so it needs to be either a separate filesystem (testing on real hardware), or in a VM (testing software on software), if not on a totally separate PC and/or HD.
 
Old 08-24-2018, 09:50 AM   #27
joe_2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fyzx92 View Post
I think I've got it, but want to double check
I have OS1, OS2, and data on separate partitions, OS1 and OS2 each has its own /home directory which is visible only to it's respective OS.
Within each OS specific /home directory are the config and program files.
Then the data partition is mounted within that OS (with a symbolic link, depending on mount location).
This would effectively become my general-use home directory. So the default /home/$USER directory effectively becomes just a place for configuration files, while the data partition (does it need its own empty folder?) holds my documents and files, and can be mounted to any number of distros, assuming compatible file systems.
This sounds as if you got it :-)
Now as discussed with mrmazda to be able to see the "data" easily in file-pickers etc. it makes sense to have it "visible" below your /home/$USER directory. This can be achieved e.g. by symlinking to the mountpoint or by creating the mountpoint within /home/$USER.
 
Old 08-24-2018, 02:18 PM   #28
fatmac
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Don't know why you are even contemplating putting MS Windows on your computer, do you need it for some program(?), if that is the case, why are you thinking of 'maybe' installing it later!

If you really think that you might want MS Windows in the future, just keep that smaller disk for it.

Keep all you data in a separate partition, install your distro with just enough room for the O/S itself, & a bit for a /home area.

Nearly all Linux distros can be run 'live' these days, so you don't have to install them until you are sure you like it.

My regular partitioning scheme that has served me well for a good number of years, is a root (/) area big enough for the distro plus additional programs, sometimes a swap partition, depending on intended usage, (laptop will need equal to amount of ram if you want to suspend/hibernate). The rest of the disk as my /home.
 
Old 08-24-2018, 06:43 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmazda View Post
???
Thread starter.
 
Old 08-25-2018, 12:25 AM   #30
boombaby
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Hello, fyzx92


For me, as a person who is a constant Linux Newbie (I hate trying to remember cryptic cmds and strategies) but a person who loves trying Linux distros and software I have found that there are two positions you can take here:

1.
Dig in up to your elbows in complexity, and learn the hard (complex) way. (Many Linuxers would recommend that too.)


2.
KISS. (Keep It Simple Sweetheart.)


Without going into details I have a multiboot system with Windows up front (which has remained unused for two/three years? (I can't even remember the last time I used it.) I keep it there for some unforseen emergency. I have managed to set this up after MANY years of trial and error. I used to have an old two-disk system with Win on one and Lin on the other, but found that it is probably better with O/S's on one hd, and Data/Backup on the other. Now, however, on a single disk system (with backups off-system) I have Windows up front, then Swap partition, followed by Linux distros partitions - with a dedicated Data partiton somewhere in the Lins or after.


For a real Newbie I would recommend KISS, but for one reason - use Linux first. (Lin <> Win)

So, such a system would have: Windows, Swap, 1 Linux partition, YOUR Data/Backup partition, and an UNUSED partition).

The only technical part there is to leave a large chuck of UNUSED space behind your working partitions - which you will eventually turn into other distros or whatever.


To get that let Windows install in its own small partition, with NO partitioning after it. In other words let Windows mark its own small territory, with blank after it. Then forget Windows, and install your Linux.


Use Linux heartily for some time to understand the How and Why, then move onto the Dual- or Multi- boot thing. It's the Linux understanding that you should get first.

Thats just my opinion.

However, should you choose option 1. then with great assistance (as demonstrated herein already by Joe_2000, Rickkkk, even pholland, syg00, mrmazda, zeebra, et al) you can't go wrong anyway.

For me, I have found that many Linuxers - trying to help, of course - use lingo that is hard to fathom at times.

This post is only added lightly because the other posts are pretty darn good advice.

P.S.
I am using Linux MX (non-systemd) which I recommend to a Newbie, but Linux Mint (systemd) is also handy for a Newbie. There are many others worthwhile distros (eg Debian, Unbuntu, Mageia, Fedora, etc.) with good value. [This is NOT a flame thing.]


Regards,

boombaby

Last edited by boombaby; 08-25-2018 at 12:35 AM.
 
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