Can i run applicatinos without desktop environment?

QueenZ · 02-14-2009, 02:51 PM

What Window Manager do KDE and GNOME use?

QueenZ · 02-14-2009, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frieza

QT and GTK are libraries that are needed to run kde or gnome applications but that doesn't mean you need to be running the kde or gnome desktop to use kde or gnome applications, only the libraries, as such kde or gnome apps can be run in any window manager as long as you have the proper libraries.

Isn't it more correct if we say QT and GTK are libraries that are needed to run Qt or GTK+ applications?

frieza · 02-14-2009, 03:13 PM

that it would

however that aside i presume you understand my point?

QueenZ · 02-14-2009, 03:16 PM

Also can we say gnome apps or kde apps? I mean they are using window managers which are using gtk+ or qt.. we should really not say gnome applications or kde applications but rather gtk+ or qt applications..

aren't i right again?

And btw, what is the difference between GTK+ and Qt, anyway??

frieza · 02-14-2009, 04:09 PM

i'm not sure about the difference, but..
you are semi correct
but if i am not mistaken (and i could be wrong here) kde and gnome also have specific libraries that make something a gnome vs a kde app, that however does not mean as i said before you need to be running those desktops as long as the libraries are provided (the easiest way would be to have kde or gnome installed but not necessarily running)
i'm making this assumption based on the fact that to develop for kde or gnome you also have to have the kde or gnome development pacakges in addition to qt or gtk+ development packages installed

QueenZ · 02-14-2009, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frieza

i'm not sure about the difference, but..
you are semi correct
but if i am not mistaken (and i could be wrong here) kde and gnome also have specific libraries that make something a gnome vs a kde app, that however does not mean as i said before you need to be running those desktops as long as the libraries are provided (the easiest way would be to have kde or gnome installed but not necessarily running)
i'm making this assumption based on the fact that to develop for kde or gnome you also have to have the kde or gnome development pacakges in addition to qt or gtk+ development packages installed

Good point

Quote:

Originally Posted by knudfl

.... Type 'xinit' to start X with no window manager.
You will get a terminal window : type 'firefox'

Ok, that's great. How can i run only window manager?

frieza · 02-14-2009, 04:28 PM

creating a file in your home directory .Xclients-default
and putting something like

Code:

#!/bin/bash
# (c) 2001 Red Hat, Inc.

WM="wmaker"
WMPATH="/usr/bin /usr/X11R6/bin /usr/local/bin"

for p in $WMPATH ; do
   [ -x $p/$WM ] && exec $p/$WM
done

exit 1

into it might work depending on what version of kdm or gdm you are using if you are using xdm then it will work for sure, how to do that in opensuse i'm not sure but /etc/sysconfig/Desktop is how it's done in fedora 9 and above

QueenZ · 02-14-2009, 04:52 PM

To be honest, i didn't undertand a word you said..

It's so complicated..

P.S. I'm on Ubuntu for now..

1) Do i even have wmaker installed? Don't i have to install it first?
2) Why does display manager matter anyway?
3) Why can't i just run one single command in terminal like "wmaker" and it will lunch it?

frieza · 02-14-2009, 05:17 PM

oh sorry

1. display manager (xdm gdm kdm) is the program that presents the graphical login screen (probably more then that but for our purposes that's what it does)

2. kdm, xdm, gdm have slightly different ways of handling things, xdm simply reads from your .Xclients-default, gdm and kdm have their own configurations that can get confusing for a novice (even i who am not quite a novice am confused by such)

3. to make sure you have windowmaker installed just sudo apt-get install windowmaker and it will either install it or tell you it's already installed
second windomaker was just an example based on what i use

if ubuntu works the same way just edit /etc/sysconfig/desktop (create if neccesary, requires root privs so, at a prompt sudo gedit /etc/sysconfig/desktop)
with the following lines

Code:

DESKTOP="XDM"
DISPLAYMANAGER="XDM"

to switch to xdm
then create the .Xclients-default in your home directory as i stated above replacing wmaker with the window manager you want to use (eg: wmaker, twm, mwm, mvwm, startkde, gnome-session, etc..)
note, if that works and you get xdm as your login, XDM is a no frills login screen.
when you're done, reboot for the changes to take effect

QueenZ · 02-15-2009, 01:21 AM

I'm not sure if that's what i wanted.. I think that it's just going to replace Metacity (GNOME Window Manager) with Window maker... i just wanted to start up my computer in consule mode and run only X Window System and Window manager... do i really need to edit files for that?

frieza · 02-15-2009, 01:35 AM

well that is both a plus and a minus to linux
to configure something involves often involves editing one file or another or sometimes more then one
sometimes there are guis to help with such somethimes there is not
however the files are plain text and offen have some doccumentation as comments within the file to help tell you how to edit them properly

this is a plus because it makes things so much more customizable and gives alot more flexibility and power and control over the experience
it is a minus because it is more difficult for a novice to learn.

in answer to your question you would have to comment out the line in the file that starts the display manager
although if i'm not mistaken window maker should be one of the options under 'session' in the login screen provided it's installed so it should be a matter of just installing it and selecting it from the list
not sure if thats how it works for ubuntu or not but..

knudfl · 02-15-2009, 02:50 AM

KDE is a window manager.
GNOME is a window manager. ( Includes 'metacity' )
WindowMaker is a window manager.

If you want to be without in Ubuntu :
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ub...ly/087620.html
→ → EDIT : This old link is not valid any more. ( Jan 2011 ).

Quote:

Ubuntu uses the Debian model, and the default runlevel is 2, unless
otherwise configured - so init 3 won't help, I'm afraid, unless you
enjoy reconfiguring runlevels .

If you have the file /etc/X11/default-display-manager you can edit it or
do

echo "false" | sudo tee /etc/X11/default-display-manager

This will disable gdm/kdm/xdm , or whatever you have in that file

You can put it back with a text editor, or do for example

echo "/usr/sbin/gdm" | sudo tee /etc/X11/default-display-manager

Of course, for a temporary disabling of X you can just do

sudo /etc/init.d/gdm stop then use the "restart" option or the
"start" option of that init.d script to restart it.

http://linux.derkeiler.com/Mailing-L.../msg02709.html
Short : open a terminal, do
echo "false" | sudo tee /etc/X11/default-display-manager

And next time you log in you will come to a black screen with a login promt.
After login, type xinit
..... in the X window appearing, type firefox in the terminal.

Works fine, I have just done it in Ubuntu 8.10 .

Good luck !

QueenZ · 02-15-2009, 02:52 AM

ok.. but how come i can start X with just typing a single command in shell but can't start WM the same way? How can i start DE?

QueenZ · 02-15-2009, 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knudfl

KDE is a window manager.
GNOME is a window manager.
WindowMaker is a window manager.

KDE is a Desktop Environment
GNOME is a Desktop Environment
WindowMaker is a Window Manager

knudfl · 02-15-2009, 03:54 AM

The X environment form "the base" for any window manager,
on which you can have a desktop.

So the basic command is xinit.

When xinit has brought you to X, you can start
a window manager :

The command 'start-kde' will provide KDE.

'gnome-session' will start GNOME.
................

That's it. In some systems, the 'startx' script in /usr/bin/
can be edited to start, what you want. ( Not in Ubuntu.)

In fact, almost anything is possible, if you want to design
your own Linux, with new features, not there by default.
....