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Old 01-06-2004, 07:49 PM   #1
BarryRadio
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Registered: Jan 2004
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Question Can't see the big picture


I intend this to be quite a large post, so first I think some background information about me is required.

Background Information:

UK Business IT Student.
ASDA Plebe,
Tour Guide for University,
IT Manager for a small Business. (4 Networked Machines, not impressive but sounds good none the less)

I consider myself to be a competent windows user, (can click the advanced user box when installing programs) I can generally make windows do what I need it to do, with the minimal of fuss.

Reason for trying out the Linux Experience:
Received an assignment at university, after much thought I decided to work on a topic that has my interest but I have no knowledge about.

Paper Title: ďIs Open Source Software a threat to Commercial SoftwareĒ
I know that using Linux and Windows is a bad start, as they are two totally different markets. I used to see computer users out there as 3 different groups,

Using Windows, Using Windows and Linux, Using Linux
Low IT knowledge Higher IT Knowledge

(Donít flame me for the chart.)

Anyhow, I think i am starting to hit the second rung of the ladder and as such have hit a snag in my previous thoughts.

My current Computer Use is basically:
Games,
Uni Work (Word Processing, Spread Sheets, Databases, Web pages)
Email
Watching and Listening to Digital Media.

Windows does the above without any problems; I am only making the change to get some first hand experience at using linux and believe i am doing my part in the anti Microsoft rebellion.




First Impressions of Linux

Wow Iím using some thing that isnít Microsoft
I have no idea what is going on
What do all these applications do? Why so many text editors?
How do I install things, (no .exe)

Linux Experience
Linux experience is well none, after about 12 tries I have a working duel boot system on my Toshiba Sat Pro Laptop, (still got 3 version showing in the boot up for grub, (canít find out how to remove the things I donít want yet.)

Running RH9 got the updates working (dam that was a pain)

Most Things work, or I have worked around.

Now we got the crap out of the way to deal with the issue at hand.

What has linux got over Microsoft?

With M$ I can get my DVDs to work, with out being told cant locate /dev/DVD
I am not limited to using a wire for my network due to no activity on the PCMCIA front.

Installing files is easy and I donít need to mess about with .rpm and all the other stuff that comes with it I mean what does it all mean?

Microsoft has an incredibly simple user interface witch in the business world will always have the advantage, no messing round, you turn it on it works.

Linux for a budding IT person/geek has the non Microsoft factor, thatís all thatís keeping me here, but once that factors gone, I cant see much reason to stay, and this report much to my dismay will favour the commercial business, because ease of use is where it counts and I can put a windows machine in front of a novice and they can be quite happy to use it, put him in front of a linux machine and they be scared they will end the world with a wrong command.

Thatís my view at the moment maybe time will change my mind.

Thnx for Reading, any and all views are welcome
 
Old 01-06-2004, 08:09 PM   #2
Peacedog
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Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Danville, VA
Distribution: Slackware, Windows, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, Mac OS X
Posts: 5,296

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Quote:
Linux Experience
Linux experience is well none, after about 12 tries I have a working duel boot system on my Toshiba Sat Pro Laptop, (still got 3 version showing in the boot up for grub, (canít find out how to remove the things I donít want yet.)

Running RH9 got the updates working (dam that was a pain)

Most Things work, or I have worked around.

Now we got the crap out of the way to deal with the issue at hand.

What has linux got over Microsoft?

With M$ I can get my DVDs to work, with out being told cant locate /dev/DVD
I am not limited to using a wire for my network due to no activity on the PCMCIA front.

Installing files is easy and I donít need to mess about with .rpm and all the other stuff that comes with it I mean what does it all mean?

Microsoft has an incredibly simple user interface witch in the business world will always have the advantage, no messing round, you turn it on it works.

Linux for a budding IT person/geek has the non Microsoft factor, thatís all thatís keeping me here, but once that factors gone, I cant see much reason to stay, and this report much to my dismay will favour the commercial business, because ease of use is where it counts and I can put a windows machine in front of a novice and they can be quite happy to use it, put him in front of a linux machine and they be scared they will end the world with a wrong command.

Thatís my view at the moment maybe time will change my mind.

Thnx for Reading, any and all views are welcome
first welcome to lq.

how long have you been using windows? i think if you answer that ? you'll maybe see my point. give yourself some time to learn a completely different os. there are more than enough resources on the web, at the bookstore, and more importantly here at lq, to get you going. i think most people who try linux and balk are expecting a windows clone. i am of the opinion that one must try linux w/ an open mind. it's linux, not windows. i feel certain that anyone who spends the same amount of time w/linux that they have already spent w/windows will inevitably learn more. w/that said, to answer your ? as best i can, linux is free, linux does not require me activate it w/in 30 days, not to mention the stability of the system, or the fact that system maintainence is virtually nonexistant. i hope i'm making some sense here. i'm not trying to flame you at all, just trying to honestly answer your ? and shed some perspective. hope that wasn't to long. good luck w/your quest.
 
Old 01-06-2004, 08:13 PM   #3
h/w
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i first had a C64 way back in the mid-80s when i was a kid. i was told to power-up, and run "load" and i would play the games. thats it. apart from that (my folks kept telling me to do something productive on the "computer" than just play games, and i tried some BASIC).
then no computer use till 1999.
got my win98 desktop after paying through my nose. had no idea what to do, and was happy click-clacketing my way with the mouse through everything. some problem happens, i reboot, and if it occurs again, i call my dealer. big deal.
then i started working as a programmer in 2000. just some programming for the web. if there was any problem with windows, i would do the same as before and carry on. no need to know anything bout what i was using. just get the job done.
then i come back to school. everything is solaris and unix here. boy am i screwed. i struggled to do all my work in windows. i kept doing everything on windows and got cygwin for some occasional stuff i would just have to do in unix.

then this fall, i decided to switch. why? cos after all the years i spent on windows, i knew nothing about it. the most i could do was modify regedit values, and impress the guys here with my DOS cli tabbing. wow!

so now im on linux. it wasnt easy, the switch. but in about 3-4 months, i have learnt things i wonder i would ever learn while persevering with windows. its no joke, my programming skills have gone up at least a 100 fold.

why? for one, you can look at the system just by booting up. its right there.
you think support is lax for linux? i dont ever remember using any forums like these while i was on windows cos i never had any use of knowing what was going on. apart from great support, i have learnt stuff which is unimaginable otherwise.

ironic how i spoke to a manager just yday about this. the concept of OS is equated with an application that some developer with extra-time cooked up, and released into the wild. they think that, like in that scenario, once the programmer leaves, they will not have support and not know whats there, and have to spend time and money all over again.

i, myself, have not had any real bad experience with win32. it hasnt crashed on me as bad as i keep hearing it does for the others. but 3 /4 months since moving to linux, i know that it's a harder time for me to switch back to win32 than vice-versa.

it is also foolish to think that linux is gonna get beat on the desktop cos ordinary mom/pop's wont be able to open a browser/word processor or play games without opening a terminal. the window managers like gnome/kde, to me are way ahead right now of MS.

to me, the biggest advantage that win32 has over linux is that device drivers are present for every device that comes out. you might have to wait a few days till it becomes available for linux, cos those companies dont really support linux, as linux is not a huge coproration that pays them and offers incentives.

i am not saying everyone should switch to linux right now (mainly cos of the issues with drivers), but i suggest everyone in a field related to technology should have at least both these systems running. it will only help more.
 
Old 01-06-2004, 08:14 PM   #4
h/w
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and if you see the size of my post, you will realize that linux users also have a lot of time to waste, juuuust like the MS counterparts.

i would also like to make this observation - there is no such thing as a "competent windows user". there are excellent developers yes - but not the above.

Last edited by h/w; 01-06-2004 at 08:21 PM.
 
Old 01-06-2004, 08:18 PM   #5
Tinkster
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There is no big picture.

It comes down to stability & control vs ease-of-use.

Quote:
Microsoft has an incredibly simple user interface witch
in the business world will always have the advantage, no
messing round, you turn it on it works.
That's arguable, though. In my experience (and I have
plenty, over 13 years an IT professional) this is not the
case. The only thing is that once people are used to it
they stick with it.

Feel free to read all the other threads here about
how people feel about Linux vs. Windows, should
keep you busy for a few days. And we (the LQ old-
timers) don't have to post the same old stuff for the
umpteenth time...

Here's just a few ...
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...threadid=61525
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...threadid=54388
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...threadid=20679



Cheers,
Tink
 
Old 01-06-2004, 08:23 PM   #6
BarryRadio
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Jan 2004
Posts: 17

Original Poster
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i would reboot my comp an shove it into linux to give it a try but as of yet, no luck with the old wlan issues, it issue is it dont work.
 
Old 01-06-2004, 08:28 PM   #7
BarryRadio
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Registered: Jan 2004
Posts: 17

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 0
Tinkster,
I think the meaning of my post is lost, its not a linux v MS post, well it shouldnt be. This is ment to be some insite into my paper, i wont be the linux user you guys are by the time its due in, but its unfair to base my personal findings on limited use of this OS.
(guess 1:30 in the morning isn't the best time to write stuff huh,)
 
Old 01-06-2004, 08:31 PM   #8
Peacedog
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Danville, VA
Distribution: Slackware, Windows, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, Mac OS X
Posts: 5,296

Rep: Reputation: 168Reputation: 168
Quote:
it is also foolish to think that linux is gonna get beat on the desktop cos ordinary mom/pop's wont be able to open a browser/word processor or play games without opening a terminal. the window managers like gnome/kde, to me are way ahead right now of MS.
h/w i have to agree w/you here. my first linux experience was w/ mandrake 8.1, and im(humble)o, any body who can load a windows os and get everything working would have no trouble w/a user friendly distro. mandrake even auto-configured all my hardware. (granted it's an older machine, nothing bleeding edge here.) i guess the point is, anyone who takes a little time to learn the os will be just as, if not more, satisfied with a user friendly linux distro as w/windows. i recently introduced my dad to the knoppix cd and he's hankering at the bit to dual boot his windows machine now. just to clarify, my pop is in his fifties, and never sat in front of a computer until i learned enough about them to show him what they can do about 2 years ago. long and short of it, i see your point. i hope that BarryRadio sees both our points.
 
Old 01-06-2004, 08:36 PM   #9
BarryRadio
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Registered: Jan 2004
Posts: 17

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 0
I'm determined to "see the light" but i cant see how linux is a threat to MS, maybe its not?
 
Old 01-06-2004, 08:37 PM   #10
Peacedog
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Location: Danville, VA
Distribution: Slackware, Windows, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, Mac OS X
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Quote:
i wont be the linux user you guys are by the time its due in, but its unfair to base my personal findings on limited use of this OS.
jmo, but, that really depends on you. just how much time and effort are you willing to commit to learning as my earlier post points out, also, to clear my issues up, i didn't take the post as a linux vs. windows post . i honestly tried to point out some pros/cons for you to think about.
 
Old 01-06-2004, 08:38 PM   #11
h/w
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Quote:
Originally posted by BarryRadio
Tinkster,
I think the meaning of my post is lost, its not a linux v MS post, well it shouldnt be. This is ment to be some insite into my paper, i wont be the linux user you guys are by the time its due in, but its unfair to base my personal findings on limited use of this OS.
(guess 1:30 in the morning isn't the best time to write stuff huh,)
i think things will become sensible if the "v/s" is replaced with "and".
lot of people talk bout the "linux revolution" and the "linux rebellion". i think your topic itself starts off with a skewed title, and turns it into a psuedo good v/s bad. it's just as conclusive as a pepsi v/s coke paper would have been when the first of the two with cans musta come out.

as peacedog said earlier, open mind.
 
Old 01-06-2004, 08:40 PM   #12
Tinkster
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Quote:
Originally posted by BarryRadio
Tinkster,
I think the meaning of my post is lost, its not
a linux v MS post, well it shouldnt be.
Even though you say it's not your intention to
do anything the like, that's how you came across.

Quote:
This is ment to be some insite into my paper, i
wont be the linux user you guys are by the
time its due in, but its unfair to base my personal
findings on limited use of this OS.
Well ... read the threads/links I posted. It will give you
plenty material/food for thought.

Personally I think that specially in the corporate
world Linux should have a good stand. I've done
network/system administration (and customisation)
in a very large scale in the past, and MS really sucks
big time in that field. What to you may appear tedious
is in reality easy, specially in respect to distribution
of profiles to many machines. But you can read all this
in the other three threads, too ;)


Quote:
(guess 1:30 in the morning isn't the best time to write stuff huh,)
Agreed ;) ... it doesn't do your spelling any good, either.


Cheers,
Tink
 
Old 01-06-2004, 08:44 PM   #13
Peacedog
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Registered: Sep 2003
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Quote:
Agreed ... it doesn't do your spelling any good, either.
Tink, i've found thereis no good time to post concerning my spelling, (have you seen the posts i've edited w/ the reason for the edit as $%@#&(*%@! spelling again). haha.
 
Old 01-06-2004, 08:48 PM   #14
Tinkster
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Quote:
Originally posted by PEACEDOG
Tink, i've found thereis no good time to post concerning my spelling, (have you seen the posts i've edited w/ the reason for the edit as $%@#&(*%@! spelling again). haha.
Heh ... well, I'm doing that, too, every once in a while

/me , too, gets carried away and posts before re-reading a post sometimes :}

And I'm really bad, because most of the time
I don't use the spell-check button at the bottom ;)


Cheers,
Tink
 
Old 01-06-2004, 08:53 PM   #15
h/w
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thank you for letting me know about the "spell check" button.
 
  


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