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best version for old computer
problem in post #12 solved, see post 15
hi all, i have an old machine that runs win 98, i'd like to install a version of linux on it and use it for a learning tool. here's the setup: 350 MHz Pentium II 512K L2 cache 64 MB 100 MHz SDRAM 8.4 GB ATA hard drive ( primary ) 32 bit Ultra ATA hard drive controller 1.44MB 3.5" floppy drive 32x CD - ROM drive SMC 1211TX lan card driver ver 1.06 8MB nVidia Riva 128 video card 64 voice maestro sound card mouse, keyboard on the motherboard any suggestions for a good version to install? i want to use it for web browsing, email, C programming and eventually get it on the home network, might play with mp3s and jpeg files. i did post an intro on myself, i hope this stupid windows machine didn't lose it. also, pls point to tutorials on iso's, live discs, etc. thanx, tired_of_windows btw, "distribution" in the user profile should read "none" |
Hi and welcome to the forum :)
Gentoo is good but you have to compile everything and the installation is not that easy but it's great for learning. Better might be Debian or even Slackware. Most distros should run on the box but I'd avoid a graphical display if I where you. |
DSL
Puppy Vector Austrumi Slax More RAM would help a lot.. Distrowatch Search Distros for Old Computers Heres the ISO tutorial you requested.. . |
I would also say Slitaz-2.0 and Tinycore-1.3
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hardware notes
hmm.. sounds like i need a newer old computer. that may be possible since i know people who throw their windows machines out after they slow down with crapware. my old machine is a micron millenia 350, and right now the cd - rom doesn't want to work. i do have a second and even slower old machine, maybe i can swap parts or play with drivers. i'll be on the side for a while, will dig up bios version and also look into memory modules. thanks to all.
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For grins download the austrumi live CD it's only 96MB after all.. Booted and running entirely in memory on a PC here it is using 36MB of RAM and is rather responsive even on this PIII 500.
I honestly think it will run OK on your system, although more memory always helps. won't know till you try it, nothing to loose. at worst it will run slow. |
plan b
hi all,
between memory and the cd - rom, it's looking to be about $80 to make the old machine worth using. plan b would be to "money" out of the situation with a new low - end machine, for $250 micro center offers: PowerSpec N 101 Operating System Ubuntu 8.04 LTS Desktop Edition Processor Intel® Celeron® Processor 440 Processor Speed 2.0GHz Level 2 Cache 512KB Level 2 Cache Data Bus Speed 800MHz Frontside Bus RAM Installed / Max RAM Supported 1GB DDR2 RAM (Expandable to 4GB) Memory Configuration (1) 1GB DIMM Memory Module Memory Slots Total 2 Memory Slots Available (1) Available 240-pin DIMM Slot Hard Drive 160GB 7,200RPM Ultra ATA Hard Drive Multimedia Drive Supermulti 8x DVD+R DL; 8x DVD-R DL; 22x8x16 DVD+RW; 22x6x16 DVD-R; 12x12 DVD-RAM; 48x32x48 CD-RW Network Features 10/100/1000 Gigabit Ethernet Network used systems go for $100 - $250 around here. any comments on this machine? farslayer, there's a micro center in mayfield heights, do u know anyone with a powerspec? the celeron shouldn't be much of an issue, the heaviest load i might put on it would be some jpeg and raw file tweaking, no video. thanx, t_o_w |
Hi,
Actually the original 'old machine' hardware would work with 'Slackware®'. I would use 'XFCE' instead of 'KDE' if you must have a desktop. If you really want to learn something other than a GUI then you should start learning the cli by using 'Linux Command Guide' or 'Linux Newbie Admin Guide'. Your installation may need some tweaking but it's doable. These links and others are available from 'Slackware-Links'. More than just Slackware® links! |
Debian proper "netinst" image i386 with a minimal base install with no desktop environment. Once installed you can download a windows manager manually. After you learn the basics here is a link from the debian forums...
http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=5450 When it comes to older systems using Debian "Lou" is one of the most experienced gurus I know on the subject. His documentation is specifically geared towards squeezing the most performance out of his old P2 system. |
Quote:
I haven't purchased any of the powerspec machines as I tend to build my own systems. The powerspec machines don't look bad overall though. Powerspec would be what is referred to as a white box machine. Uses standard motherboard, and components so you can swap em and upgrade as you move on. OEM systems such as Dell and Compaq use some proprietary motherboards so you are stuck with what is in the box. The USED Dell and Compaq machines they sell are definitely a bargain if you are looking for a decent low end machine for not much cash. I've purchased used Dells for the office before and they worked pretty well with Linux. SO exactly what kind of memory do you need ? and where abouts in Ohio are you ? I have some old memory and a CDROM laying around I could part with (it's not doing me any good just sitting in a box) if you are nearby and wanted to pick it up I could part with it easily.. I work in Willoughby off of Lost nation Road. Decent refurb systems from MicroCenter, that won't break the bank http://www.microcenter.com/single_pr...uct_id=0307585 - $120.00 - 1.7Ghz / 256MB http://www.microcenter.com/single_pr...uct_id=0307988 - $160.00 - 2.8Ghz / 512MB http://www.microcenter.com/single_pr...uct_id=0309707 - $170.00 - 2.4Ghz / 512MB Of course the upside to buying the new machine.. http://www.microcenter.com/single_pr...uct_id=0307517 More RAM 1 Year warranty Bigger Hard drive Linux Pre-installed DVD Burner |
internet / network connection drops out
hi all,
the old micron machine mentioned before will be used to install Slack or DSL at a later date here's the machine i ended up with: dell dimension 8200 P4 1.7GHz BIOS Version/Date Dell Computer Corporation A01, 9/18/2001 SMBIOS Version 2.3 256 MB RDRAM 40 GB Maxtor F040L0 hard drive LG CRD8482B 1.05 DVD/CD-ROM CNet PRO200WL PCI Fast Ethernet lan card Conexant HCF V90 56K Data Fax PCI Modem Intel 82801BA/BAM usb Universal Host Controller i updated the memory to 512 MB, windows xp, and the bios recognized it, debian system monitor lists memory as 503.7MiB. i was careful about matching the RDRAM modules this thing is a total guinea pig, i just blew windows off of it and did a net install of debian 501 i386 this morning, md5sum for the iso was good. gentlemen, you are seeing a common condition know as "newbie overload" uname -r output; linux kernel is 2.6.26-2-686 the main problem is that the internet / network connection works briefly and then drops out. my internet connection is from a cable modem through a linksys router if i boot the router or unplug / plug in the ethernet cable on the back of the linux machine i can get on the internet from iceweasel, get to some websites, and ping the router , the IP address for google or linuxquestions.org. the network and / or internet connection lasts for about 45 seconds and then "the network has been disconnected" dialog box comes up in the standard GNOME 2.22.3 desktop. i could access the internet OK under windows xp on this machine without having to reconfig the router. my guess is that I have a driver issue, the old windows system info says: Name [00000001] CNet PRO200WL PCI Fast Ethernet Adapter Adapter Type Ethernet 802.3 Product Type CNet PRO200WL PCI Fast Ethernet Adapter i can't export the lspci output right now except for this keyboard, lspci lists the ethernet controller as: Davicom Semiconductor, Inc. 21x4 DEC -Tulip compatible 10 / 100 Ethernet (rev 31) i don't think i have k3b on the system, the only transferrable media between the debian desktop and the windows network is a cd - rom, i wasn't able to burn the lspci output to the cd -rom using gedit, and right now the cd - rom won't eject. i was able to play mp3 files with it and open DOS text files earlier. might work after a reboot. i did download the first 3 debian 501-i386 cd isos as a precaution and the cd package lists. i can't claim any expertise with the GNOME desktop or networking in general. it seems to be a good install, here's the questions: 1. anyone seen this problem before and have a suggestion? 2. i didn't enter a proxy server during the install, didn't think i needed to. can this be part of the problem? 3. if i have to can i do a fresh install over this one and pick some different options? thanx, t_o_w p.s. the usb support is great so i can post command line output if needed. meanwhile sound juicer is providing relaxation.. |
Well, if you are ready to fork few bits more you can get a USB wi-fi dongle (as you said, atleast the usb support is working). I'm assuming your linksys router has wifi..
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Hi,
What's the output of 'ifconfig -a' for the system before and after the network stops? What about restarting the inet? Try either 'Slax', 'Knoppix' or even 'SystemRescueCD' which are Livecd. See what is recognized for your Ethernet and wireless. Post the 'dmesg' portion for the device(s)in question, 'route -n' and 'ifconfig -a' for the system. It's nice to have a Livecd to diagnose and repair a system. The Slackware install cd/dvd can be used for repairs. What distro are you using when the problem occurs? These links and others can be found at 'Slackware-Links'. More than just Slackware® links! |
Davicom Semiconductor.. sometimes mis-detected as tulip.
Might want to check what module it is using. if it's using the tulip module remove it and insert dmfe in it's place. if that resolves the issue then blacklist the tulip module. ifdown eth0 rmmod tulip rmmod dmfe modprobe dmfe ifup eth0 How-to Blacklist modules in Debian. http://wiki.debian.org/KernelModuleBlacklisting Let us know if that works out for you. Cheers !! |
cli output
here's the output of ifconfig -a and dmesg:
(connection up) dellbox:~# ifconfig -a eth0 Link encap:Ethernet Mask:255.255.255.0 inet6 addr: fe80::280:adff:fe76:c586/64 Scope:Link UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 RX packets:60 errors:2498 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:250 errors:2 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:2 collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000 RX bytes:13781 (13.4 KiB) TX bytes:43772 (42.7 KiB) Interrupt:18 Base address:0xe800 lo Link encap:Local Loopback inet addr:127.0.0.1 Mask:255.0.0.0 inet6 addr: ::1/128 Scope:Host UP LOOPBACK RUNNING MTU:16436 Metric:1 RX packets:8 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:8 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 txqueuelen:0 RX bytes:560 (560.0 B) TX bytes:560 (560.0 B) (disconnected) dellbox:~# ifconfig -a eth0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:80:ad:76:c5:86 UP BROADCAST MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 RX packets:60 errors:2551 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:261 errors:2 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:2 collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000 RX bytes:13781 (13.4 KiB) TX bytes:45338 (44.2 KiB) Interrupt:18 Base address:0xe800 lo Link encap:Local Loopback inet addr:127.0.0.1 Mask:255.0.0.0 inet6 addr: ::1/128 Scope:Host UP LOOPBACK RUNNING MTU:16436 Metric:1 RX packets:8 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:8 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 txqueuelen:0 RX bytes:560 (560.0 B) TX bytes:560 (560.0 B) dmesg output: 2.811415] tulip0: EEPROM default media type Autosense. [ 2.811421] tulip0: Index #0 - Media MII (#11) described by a 21140 MII PHY (1) block. [ 2.811426] tulip0: Index #1 - Media 10baseT (#0) described by a 21140 non-MII (0) block. [ 2.811431] tulip0: Index #2 - Media 100baseTx (#3) described by a 21140 non-MII (0) block. [ 2.811435] tulip0: Index #3 - Media 10baseT-FDX (#4) described by a 21140 non-MII (0) block. [ 2.811440] tulip0: Index #4 - Media 100baseTx-FDX (#5) described by a 21140 non-MII (0) block. [ 2.813891] tulip0: MII transceiver #1 config 3100 status 7809 advertising 01e1. [ 2.822036] eth0: Davicom DM9102/DM9102A rev 49 at Port 0xe800, 00:80:ad:76:c5:86, IRQ 18. [ 52.832764] eth0: Setting full-duplex based on MII#1 link partner capability of 45e1. [ 77.660026] eth0: no IPv6 routers present [ 165.634520] 0000:02:09.0: tulip_stop_rxtx() failed (CSR5 0xfc740000 CSR6 0x2042202) route -n just outputs the column headers, no data. still looking into the inet and module info.. just noticed something, the cli prompt doesn't show the root user name and i actually have to log in as "root" when i shell out with ctrl - alt - F1, this can't be good. root terminal from the applications / accessories takes the root password. i've been avoiding logging in as the root user until i needed it. may have fat - fingered this on the install. the gnome desktop won't take "root", second user login works ok. i'll work on the two items above, learning can't hurt, but a re -install might clear up future issues. still may have to switch drivers. distro, btw, is debian lenny. thanks t_o_w |
Hi,
You definitely have rx/tx errors. What module do you show as being used? Output for 'lsmod'? farslayer suggested in post #15. What was the result from those actions? |
no response from OP.. must have got the network issue fixed somehow, and be off on holiday now.. :)
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checking modules
[QUOTE=farslayer;3561581]Davicom Semiconductor.. sometimes mis-detected as tulip.
Might want to check what module it is using. if it's using the tulip module remove it and insert dmfe in it's place. if that resolves the issue then blacklist the tulip module.QUOTE] hi all, i hope the quote shows up OK, if not it's part of the thread above. i didn't try the blacklisting yet, i'm a little rusty on shell commands and usually look them up before trying them. i'm not sure what the lsmod and dmesg lines are telling me, am i missing something? Here's the output: dellbox:/home/gh# lsmod |grep tulip tulip 44064 0 dellbox:/home/gh# lsmod |grep dmfe dmfe 16568 0 dellbox:/home/gh# dmesg |grep eth [ 2.813812] eth0: Davicom DM9102/DM9102A rev 49 at Port 0xe800, 00:80:ad:76:c5:86, IRQ 18. [ 24.852774] eth0: Setting full-duplex based on MII#1 link partner capability of 45e1. [ 36.096017] eth0: no IPv6 routers present [ 54.228029] eth0: no IPv6 routers present dellbox:/home/gh# dmesg |grep tulip [ 2.803369] tulip0: EEPROM default media type Autosense. [ 2.803376] tulip0: Index #0 - Media MII (#11) described by a 21140 MII PHY (1) block. [ 2.803380] tulip0: Index #1 - Media 10baseT (#0) described by a 21140 non-MII (0) block. [ 2.803385] tulip0: Index #2 - Media 100baseTx (#3) described by a 21140 non-MII (0) block. [ 2.803389] tulip0: Index #3 - Media 10baseT-FDX (#4) described by a 21140 non-MII (0) block. [ 2.803394] tulip0: Index #4 - Media 100baseTx-FDX (#5) described by a 21140 non-MII (0) block. [ 2.805846] tulip0: MII transceiver #1 config 3100 status 7809 advertising 01e1. dellbox:/home/gh# dmesg |grep Davicom [ 2.813812] eth0: Davicom DM9102/DM9102A rev 49 at Port 0xe800, 00:80:ad:76:c5:86, IRQ 18 i'm confused at this point, it looks to me like neither module is in use. am i checking the module use correctly? [ 165.634520] 0000:02:09.0: tulip_stop_rxtx() failed (CSR5 0xfc740000 CSR6 0x2042202) and is this telling me that the tulip driver failed on boot? thanks, t_o_w |
success
please excuse the delay. newbie nervousness and "windows reflex" makes me check things before doing them. thanks guys, the network connection came up as soon as i hit the enter key after "modprobe dmfe". I'll try the blacklisting next now that i know what to search for. but if u read the last post, why did it show tulip and dmfe as 0?
hopefully the last question for a while, do i need antivirus before doing any serious web surfing from linux or just homework on my file structure and file permissions? please point to a wikis & tutorials on interpreting lsmod and ifconfig results, and file structure i'm still new to these commands. hmm, obviously i ned to bone up on quoting in this site also. it has been a few years since using open bsd. t_o_w |
Hi,
Your using GNU/Linux not M$. Worse case would be a script problem but you could always use NoScript with FF. As for some very useful links, look at 'Slackware-Links'. More than just Slackware® links! BTW, checkout Chkrootkit if your worried about root breaks or ClamAV if you serve M$. |
Glad to hear that worked for you..
Just follow the directions for blacklisting that I posted the link to step by step.. it's pretty straight forward, but not very intuitive. Once the blacklisting is done your problem should be resolved so it will not re-appear after a reboot. As for why the tulip module even tries to load for that card in the first place I don't know.. but apparently after it fails and the proper module loads, the proper module doesn't function properly. Look on the bright side, we found the issue and were able to come up with a resolution quickly :) I won't argue with you about being cautions.. I've been doing computer work for years now and I check, double check, and then triple check before I do a lot of things, just to make sure I don't make a mistake. Better to be cautions than to cause yourself tons of grief with a careless command. |
serve M$? no way. i use 'em until i can lose 'em, and then they're goin' away. i used to be locked out of any root file but no more, now it's my responsibility so it's homework, homework... ahh, you know the drill. and who's complaining? you did good.
this one's brought to you by debian lenny. google this if you have to: kam se ha me dah, y'all t_o_w |
Hi,
Administration does have responsibility! You should always have the habit of checking then checking again. I remember the rule; 'measure twice, cut once'. That simple rule will save you a load of work and pain with any task. Be it computers or construction. :) |
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