Threat of service disruption by ISP (TalkTalk UK) if their modem not used
 

I have received a stock letter from my ISP which says:

"Having reviewed your account we have identified that you have an older router model...so we have sent you a new router at no extra cost."

"It is very important you (sic) install your new router as soon as it arrives, as your Broadband service may be disrupted if you do nothing."

Background: The new router they have sent me is a wireless router, although it does have some ethernet sockets. I do not have any wireless devices at all. I do not want to use wireless due to the lack of security. I live in a crowded area where my nearest neighbour is about twelve inches away on the other side of a wall. There does not seem to be any way of disabling the wireless part.

Some years ago they sent me another wireless router which I similarly never used and left in the box.

I am still using the non-wireless modem/router that they sent me before that. Although a few years old it still does a good job and is more than fast enough.

What should I do now?

I would like to continue to use my old modem/router, in other words do nothing.

They may just be guessing that I am using the older possibly less secure wireless router that they sent me previously.

Thanks.

Do whatever you'd like, but again: their network=their rules. They are (more or less) point blank TELLING YOU that your service will go down if you don't upgrade. Don't want wireless? Tell them that, and they'll either disable it or send you one without it.

Not really a Linux related question at all.

Almost all of the devices allow the end user to configure it.

I'd bet there is some manual for it online that tells how to access it.


There may be a generic current model that will be allowed on their system.

You might be able to call them and ask what is changed but .... good luck.. usually you get ID 10 T support.

Are you sure you can't disable the device's wireless capabilities from its admin interface?

The wireless router they sent me does not have any identification on it, so it is not possible to look up its specification. Also, it may require Windows to initiate it, since the ISP does not support Linux (unless they have changed their policy recently which is unlikely).

On what perhaps debatedly could be a separate thread, I disabled IPv6 some years ago as it was thought to be a security risk. Is IPv6 still a security risk? Perhaps it would help if I restored it.

https://test-ipv6.com/ says "Your Internet Service Provider (ISP) appears to be OPALTELECOM-AS TalkTalk Communications Limited" and gives me a 0/10 score for IPv6 connectivity.

Update: The router they sent me looks like this one https://accessories.talktalk.co.uk/p...description/41 , the
TalkTalk Wi-Fi Hub Black, and not the very similar looking higher spec one. And I believe the service I have is ADSL, since if it was fibre I would have heard about it.

This is not about technology, this is about being a consumer. Assuming you've purchases goods and services in the past, and also possibly had bad customer experiences. Figure out what your options are and exercise them. Be they

• purchase your own router
• find another ISP
• call them to find out the credentials to manage the router they gave you

That may be the case in the USA, where my internet surfing of the last few minutes tells me that the "open internet" idea is dead, but in the UK it is still alive and functioning, even after the UK's exit from the European Union.

The pdf that is linked to from this page https://www.ofcom.org.uk/research-an...net-neutrality says:

"Under Articles 3(1) and 3(2) of the Open Internet Regulation, end-users have the right to
“access and distribute information and content, use and provide applications and services,
and use terminal equipment of their choice, irrespective of the end-user's or provider's
location or the location, origin or destination of the information, content, application or
service, via their internet access service.” This right is not to be limited by agreements
entered into by the providers of internet access services and end-users, or by the commercial
practices of those providers."

The important part is "use terminal equipment of their choice". So I should be entitled to use a Linux-compatible modem or router if I want, or a Linux OS.

My surfing of the last few minutes also suggests that another issue with ISP-provided equipment is that they often or usually will not give you the passwords required to enable you to change its internal specifications.

If I was you I'd whack the new router in and read the doco. You can almost certainly turn the wifi off. Seems they have a reasonable community advice commitment - I even found a page to setup a third-party router.
Usually to set up the box you connect via a browser to the (non-routable) gateway IP address - 192.168.1.1 is pretty common although they can also use a mickey-mouse address like http.yourrouter.com or similar. Go nuts securing it from there.
Many (as in many) years ago I had a router that could only be accessed by IE - even using a bodgy user agent didn't work, so I had to keep a Windows laptop around. Not an issue thses days, all the config can be done from Linux.

Edit: missed the couple of posts prior as I type too slow. Still reckon you should be ok with the new router.

Generally "terminal equipment" refers to the first bit of equipment the user touches, so laptops, phones, PC, etc. etc. not necessarily the NTU (Network Termination Unit). There are several reasons ISPs want you to use the latest provided NTUs, the primary one being support. It's cost-effective that they only have one, maybe two different "modems" to support when the average user encounters problems.

Newer NTUs may also support newer / faster protocols. I doubt my original 1st gen NTU would support my current 500Mb connectivity, and I know I have to change it to a newer one if I want to go 1Gb.

Strangely I've found the opposite, I've never had problems getting in to my ISPs provided NTU, indeed my Virgin Media hub came with the admin password and details of how to change it as well as the SSID passwords. I've also had no problems switching my VM NTU to "bridge mode" where the external IP is handed off to the 1st ethernet port. I then have my own separate router doing firewall / WiFi duties.

Quite correct. If this isn't available, then it is a big blocking point. Hence why I recommended asking the provider for this information, or considering alternatives. Because if there's some reason why they won't provide the credentials to control the equipment, then another option is to ask them to reconfigure it for you. Issue there is, how would you know? Final option is to bring your business elsewhere.

Wrong. Do not confuse your 'minutes of web surfing' with actual knowledge, nor confuse net neutrality with the right of a *PRIVATE COMPANY* to do as they wish with the network they own, and the equipment they have on it.

It is not YOU that maintains their network, it's them. Older hardware (with older firmware) may be presenting them with problems of maintenance you have no idea about. They are absolutely within their rights to turn your access off if you don't comply, period. Just as if they find a script-kiddie who's trying to hack their network.
Wrong. The 'terminal equipment' is YOUR COMPUTER. Says absolutely nothing about the connection point provided, does it? Again, net neutrality isn't at issue. Are they telling you to not visit certain sites? Pay more for others? Censoring you?? Nope....they're telling you that you have to have THEIR DEVICE PLUGGED INTO THEIR NETWORK.
Right; again their network=their rules. Are you not even thinking of the fact that if folks can change whatever they want on their router, they could then cause no end of problems for anyone ELSE on that particular part of the network, either on purpose or not? And are they going to call YOU to fix it? Nope...they get the 100-1000 calls, and have to send techs around to figure out who is doing what. You may very well be able to change some things (WiFi SSID, WiFi password, enable/disable it, etc.), but not others.

Again, don't want wireless? Tell them that. Whining about net neutrality as if you're being asked to do something so horrible by putting in a piece of FREE EQUIPMENT to replace an older one, won't get you much.

The entire thrust of this thread was, "What should I do? Can they turn off my access?" Answers are STILL:

• Do whatever you want; after all, you've done MINUTES of research.
• Yes, they can turn off your access at any time; it's THEIR NETWORK...you don't own it, just pay to access it.

As I said, talktalk seem to have good community access to this info - simple search finds the same info I use from my ISP.
Seems a matter of paranoia from the OP, not published info from the ISP.

Wonder if that is legal in the UK? "does not have any identification on it" I'd think it has to be identified.

Anyway. You can easily find it's web page to config it.

Might be same. https://support.plume.com/hc/en-gb/a...0your%20router.

Thanks, as has been pointed out I do not know the details of the regulations and laws. I would have thought that you are entitled to use your own modem in the UK and EU, where maybe things are less business-oriented and more favouring the consumer and the individual. (The big US internet tech companies are frequently given big fines by the EU).

I have finally got my old non-wireless modem to work on another computer so I shall stick with that until it stops working.

I dislike the idea of having my banking details broadcast over half the street, and wireless is known to be insecure. Even though in theory it may be possible to turn it off, you can never be sure that it is actually turned off. I dislike the need to keep the thing turned on all the time, which is a significant fire risk as well as wasting electricity and money. I think I also read that it does not allow you to use an external DNS server rather than the ISP one. So bad all round.

Is there any recent non-wireless router-modem model that people would recommend?

Better safe than sorry, and worrying about being sorry.

No, you don't and again, it has ZERO to do with any laws or regulations. You are accessing a NETWORK..you do not own that network. The owners (that is the PRIVATE COMPANY) dictate what they allow to use as an access point, period.
You got a modem to work on your COMPUTER??? How, exactly, did you manage that? The ISP modem is the access point to a home...you don't connect it to a computer, you connect it to the ISP's network, and plug your computer into it. And if this is the same computer/modem you had before, again...you have accomplished absolutely NOTHING. They can still turn your access off, period.
A 'significant fire risk'??? From a low-power device? Really? And as you were told before, if you can access the modem, you can set your DNS server to be whatever you want...and you can ALSO tell your computer to use whatever DNS server you want, which will essentially bypass whatever the modem says. And WiFi is SO INSECURE that most business use it...right?? Sorry, no. An 8 character password (which is short) that contains upper/lower case letters, numbers, and special characters will take somewhere around 27,727 years. 95 possible characters. 8 character password = 95 x 95 x 95 x 95 x 95 x 95 x 95 x 95. That is a total of 663,420,430,000,000,000 guesses, and using a top of the line GPU dedicated to NOTHING BUT DOING THIS, would get you about 750,000 guesses per second. Do the math. Yes, it can be done, typically by social engineering or by having a weak password. And you would have to have something worth stealing to make it worth anyones time.

The minutes of research you've done are showing here. Do a few more minutes of research.
AGAIN: CALL YOUR ISP. Can't be much simpler...tell them you don't want wireless at all. They probably have approved devices that are made for businesses (who DO use Wifi, but their own), and will more than likely send you one instead.

Plug the router into a power strip with a switch. Turn it off when not in use.
Ed

" non-wireless router-modem "

Maybe. It is really easy to just disable wifi function on almost every modem.

Saying it is a modem however doesn't fully tell us what your isp needs to connect. ADSL ADSL2 or what sort of system we can't tell so far.


I meant that a device by most countries laws have to have some sort of identification on it.
There may or may not be a law that says you have the right to use your own hardware.

There has been fights in the area of right to repair and that ultimately gets close to this issue.

A quick google search turns up some information on TalkTalk's router offerings (it's dated Dec 2020, but is likely to be still relevant) Depending on your package there's two different router models. https://www.cable.co.uk/providers/talktalk/routers/

Another quick search shows that plugging something in to one of the ethernet ports and browsing to 192.168.1.1 should give you the admin login page and the default details are on a sticker on the back of the router. If 192.168.1.1 doesn't work then check whatever settings your computer was configured with, the default gateway IP address should also give you the relevant admin login page.

It's highly likely the information in how to login is provided in a "Getting Started" guide that came with the router as the recommendation from ISPs is to reconfigure the password and/or SSID for wireless. At which point you should be able to disable WiFi and configure things like which DNS servers to use.

Depending on the device you may be able to switch the router to "bridge" or "modem" mode which should disable the WiFi settings and simply re-present your public IP on (usually the first) ethernet port, at which point you can use whatever router / firewall you wish. In my own setup I have a Virgin Media Smart Hub 3 in "bridge" mode with a Netgear Nighthawk R7000 acting as my internal router and WiFi access point.

This is just them telling you they won't help you if you need customer help with your old router.

I was told something very similar years ago, but they weren't as generous, the new router would have cost me dearly (or I'd have had to change to a "better" - read: more expensive - contract). I am still using that same old modem/router to date, but I'd have been happy to take the new one for free.

If wifi is your only concern, I agree with all the other posters here: it is very, very unlikely that it's impossible to disable. Figure out how, and use the new one.

And, I cannot resist to add: I must agree with TB0ne that you have some very unclear (mis)conceptions about the differences between company policy and law and regulation. Not saying TalkTalk is beyond reproach, but what you are saying there makes no sense.

I did the same thing - I ignored my ISP's letters and continued to use the old equipment. My service kept working. The last thing the ISP wanted was to lose a customer.

Eventually, 768 kbit/s was no longer adequate. Upgrading required new equipment and a higher fee.

I suspect that the OP may be trying to avoid a rate increase. He can always find out what will happen if he ignores the letter. ;)
Ed

My old modem is now working fine and I intend to stick with it.

Security - is wireless less or more secure than cryptocurrency wallets? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58277359

I am sceptical that a new modem will allow super-fast downloading of big files from https://archive.org/ or anywhere else.

Good for you; again, *DO NOT* be surprised if they just cut your service off. AGAIN: it is their network, you are just paying to access it.
This was explained before; re-read the reply about this. And again, you are concerned about the 'significant risk of fire' by keeping it turned on, along with several other things that make little to no sense, so I'm not sure what else you need (or want) to hear. You are also free to do your own research about this, as there are a LOT of papers written about wifi security.
And since you won't plug it in, why does it matter?? Again, their network=their rules. It is VERY possible that the speed will be much greater, but since you won't upgrade (for free), it's immaterial, isn't it??

On any system you can use your own equipment. The issue here is what actually defines the boundary between their network and yours, and they do have the right to specify the equipment they deem compatible with their network. What you attach on your side of that (modem/router) is up to you.

Remember there are 2 sides to the modem. Your side - the LAN - is freely yours to manage. Their side - the WAN connection - has to properly interact with their equipment and they can either manage it directly or mandate the settings you must enter for it to operate.

I once was been required to buy a modem from the ISP, even though I managed it in order to meet the hardware compatibility requirements. In one instance I owned the router/modem but in order for it to work with their equipment the ISP specified the WAN config on it, and I was on the phone with their tech as it was configured.

I am not sure why the extreme paranoia about wifi, but as has already been said, any wifi modem/router/AP can have the radios disabled so wifi is not in use. That is something most users are aware of by now since user config is necessary and leaving the default login/password config on a new piece of hardware is a major security risk..

With all due respect, this is all which was needed. The rest of your post invites argument.

After a lot of nagging I unwillingly plugged in the router-modem the ISP sent me.

The speed is just the same as it was before, no improvement at all. Even though it is set to "automatic" and I have not changed any settings, it still uses ADSL.

This is despite there being a fibre-to-cabinet cabinet near me.

It won't be long now before I get a letter from the ISP trying to make me pay extra for faster speeds.

All I want is a bicycle to ride down to the shops, but I get told that these are superseded technology and I am offered the choice of either this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockhe...in_F-22_Raptor or Nothing.

Edit: The diagram that can be seen here after scrolling down the page https://www.openreach.com/fibre-broadband suggests that ADSL remains in service in parallel with fibre, so the implication of Talktalk's threatening letters that ADSL is going to stop being available is probably untrue.

You seem to either be ignoring what you're told, or are just plain missing the point and are not understanding what you're told.

AGAIN: use whatever it is you want to use. Want to use your old device that you have 'tweaked'?? Go for it..you question was, "Can talktalk disrupt my service if I don't?" The answer remains: YES, THEY CAN. Nothing else to tell you.

Want to complain about your speed? Then *CALL YOUR ISP* If you have ADSL only, it will quite obviously not be fiber speeds...and again, since you still miss the point...the new device may handle better speeds that your ISP is going to roll out, but have not yet. But, since you won't call them, and want to whine about being 'nagged', what do you expect to find out?

Got a problem with your ISP? Call them. Want to use your old device? Go for it.

I would guess that if they are telling you adsl will be ended, the conclusion would be that there is a transition period where both adsl and fibre will be active while they get their customers to switch over. If they ended adsl and used fibre only and you did not already have the new equipment to match then you would suddenly have no connection.

I guess they really are looking out for you, and you probably should accept that.