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Old 09-04-2003, 08:19 PM   #1
Tiger-Striped
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Linux server with Windows clients on a LAN


I"m a newb here...I need help please....I just want to know how to set-up a Linux server with windows computers hooked up to it through a LAN....they are both using tcp/ip so I'm one step in...but I want to configure this server so it runs php, and all the web technologies....but don't know where to start....can anyone help me please?

Thank you...I appreciate it!
 
Old 09-04-2003, 09:05 PM   #2
Eqwatz
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Get a pad of paper, and outline specifically what you want to do.

1) Make a hardware list: Routers, NICs, Cables, Printers, etc.

2) How are you connected to the internet?

3) Be specific as to the services you want, and the layout you want.

3a) Identify clearly which services are internal (inside your home network) and external (visible from the web).

3b) Reduce your scope. Only work on one thing at a time.

[YOU were the one who said the words all "of the web technologies" weren't you???????] {As opposed to file-serving and interactive databases using php.}

I can't really go farther without a hardware list and layout.

Do you have a physical router -or- are you going to set-up linux as your router and run stuff through multiple NICs -or-an ethernet switch (referred to as an ethernet HUB by those wonderful marketeers)?????

Let's play with one O.S. at a time shall we? Netware is an O.S. tailored for routers. Linux can be used to set up routing rather painlessly as well.

Are you familiar with the terms: default_gateway, DMZ, NETFILTER/IPTABLES, Multi-homing, Domains, and private network? You will need to be.

Are you going to serve the web-pages to your private net-work -or- to the web through your ISP?

If it is going to be served on the web you must have a static IP Address--which generally costs more -or- pay a site to provide IP Address translation (Which I heard of recently. Kind of cool, but I don't know anything about that.)

All of this stuff is necessary to plan out before you start.

The way you go about things is one task at a time. First you do your private network--get that running well.

Then, you need to contact your ISP --if you are going to serve web pages directly to the web, be prepared to pay for the service. They will get you if you don't. Read Mr. Contract.

How will anyone reach you? Well you need to have a FQDN (Fully Qualified Domain Name) registered somewhere. The DNS out on the web have to know who you are to translate name->numerical address. Your ISP may sell the service to you. First, you need a name not in use anywhere, then you have to register/own it. Prices vary a whole lot--be an informed consumer. The web is definitely a "Caveat Emptor" kind of place.

If you are going to serve pages to your private network, you next need to set-up a DNS service for your network (bind). You need translation from a Fully Qualified Domain Name (ie. http:// www.mywebsite.org) to a numerical address (ie. 192.168.101.125) so you don't dump out to the www through your default_gateway.

You can cheat on this by putting name to number entries in the "Hosts" files in all of the machines in the network--at least to get it working while you set-up DNS (Domain Name Service.)

After you set-up the network with NETFILTER (and get it all working) http://library.n0i.net/linux-unix/ad...liable-guides/

DNS (http://www.linux.org/docs/ldp/howto/DNS-HOWTO.html); It is a very good practice to set-up another domain for your expected web-server.

Either a physical or virtual (using multi-homing) DMZ--which will allow someone to establish a connection which is not part of the private network (which resides behind NETFILTER, which is a fire-wall.).

Never have web-serving on the same domain, you defeat the purpose of the fire-wall program.

After all of this, then you are ready to get the web-serving program, there are several to choose from. The two most spoken about are apache and thttpd (the one named after the noise that Bill the cat made). http://linux.about.com/cs/softwebserver/

If you weren't talking about setting up a Web-Server. Well, there
it is.

It is easiest with a router. Simple and straight forward, I'm blew the extra $50 (compared to the cost of a switch) and bought one.
I proved I could do it with a ethernet switch first, but for the money I got NAT, a print-server, fail-over to modem--and/or fax service if I learn how--, DHCP, a DMZ (for web serving if I choose to), specified ports and services, and other toys I haven't learned to use yet. I don't regret the money spent on it. (SMC Barricade)

An Ethernet switch (which marketeers are calling a HUB) costs about the same as three NICs (Network Interface Cards).

The cable modem is going to have a specific IP Address 192.168.X-XXX.X-XXX. It is going to be your default gateway for your linux box. The third level domain ( the third set of numbers) is going to be different for your private network. If you have the Desktop running, you will have gui based tools for making the adjustments.

There should be a window for setting up multi-homing for your network card. This will create second and third virtual network cards with different MAC addresses. [It is safest to use the tools. There are many ways to mess everything up.]

One of these will be the host/default_gateway for your private network. It is generally assigned the number one on your private network. (192.168.123.1)

If you look at the /etc/Hosts files you will see an entry for localhost local_domain which ends in the number one. Most scripts will look for the host at the first IP address. You don't want to change that entry--I was using that as an example.

The second virtual NIC will be your machines' address for communication and services on that network.

You may want to set up a third virtual NIC for the print server just to make it easier to keep everything straight. Unless you want to make one of the windows boxes the host for the printer.

What you will be doing is setting up another domain for all of your computers on your home network and setting up the host for that domain. The host does the NAT (Network Address Translation) for the domain and is the default_gateway for the computers which reside there. This is exactly what a router does.

Red Hat has a lot of stuff running by default. Slackware may not. There should be a sysV style services editor accessable from your desktop (KDE or Gnome) on KDE it is the start button->system settings-> Server settings-> services.

If you can ping between the windows boxes and the subnet appears to be functional as far as the individual addresses then it is time to look at the servers/daemons on the linux box. xinetd is a 'super-server' for network services--it has to be running as it is the host for the rest. Since you are using static addresses I don't think you need snmpd (Simple Network Management Protocol daemon) for file/printer sharing you do need smb (SAMBA). Since I don't have a copy of Slackware I don't really know what is defaulted to run.

On a small home network, generally setting up DHCP is more trouble than it is worth. You just have to make entries in all of the Hosts files in all of the computers to set up static IP Addresses.

In windows, there is generally a Hosts.SAM file. Just make a copy of that and edit it to reflect the members of the network (subnet). Then rename it to Hosts (no extension). AFTER doing that go to tcp/ip properties and set up the static address (turn off DHCP) and make an entry in the Default Gateway tabbed window (the default gateway is the ipaddress you set-up as host for the network when you multi-homed the NIC in linux). Making a default gateway will generally place another entry in the Hosts file, that is why you want to set it up first.

[Wait a minute, I think when you set up the static IP address and the default gateway--windows makes the Hosts file for you. THEN add the other IP addresses.] After setting up the multi-homing on the linux and the network host and the services/communication address and making sure the specific services are running. You need to stop and restart networking or reboot. Then, you should be able to ping the service address and ping the web through the gateway. At this point, add the addresses into the hosts files(s) and then ping them. I can't remember whether you have to reboot the windows boxes after each entry or not. I had to dink around a bit.]

If you set up a firewall on the "real" NIC (NETFILTER) the IP address (which resides on the same subnet as the cable modem) will be unreachable--as it will refuse any connection save that of the modem and those connections will be run through the rule chains which you will set up. After you know they work; they go in a file, which is read by a boot-up script. (Or, you write the stuff in the file and keep a known-good copy of the file to use if you break it.)

At this point, the network should be pinging and "up".

Then, after that all works, you can set up the database and/or the file services which you would like to have. Most distros have tools for this. Databases are over my head. And setting up an Intranet webserver is as well.

I had to set up a real web server for my admin III class (in RH), I think if you want to practice/play around with web serving on a subnet you still need DNS to prevent being dumped out onto the net. You might get away with another entry in the hosts file(s) and another multi-home virtual NIC as the host for it or share the address with the communication/services address on the linux box. Don't forget the entries in nsswitch make sure it checks files first.

Last edited by Eqwatz; 09-15-2003 at 09:50 AM.
 
Old 09-13-2003, 12:23 PM   #3
Tiger-Striped
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well my clients are win95, and the hard drive space I'm limited to 2 gigs for the server...I think that's not enough....
plus I was planning to use novell netware...is that a good idea?
the internet will be shared through a proxy or such...I never done this before I wanna get a hands on practice with networking but don't really know what to do...
 
Old 09-13-2003, 12:25 PM   #4
Tiger-Striped
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hmmm....I think I'll get a bigger hard-drive but I want the servers to have the programs and the clients to upload them everytime they want them to be accesed...so that it's a client server relationship...and all data will be stored on the server....
 
Old 09-13-2003, 02:00 PM   #5
r_jensen11
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Having the server have the programs and clients loading might be difficult when they're cross-platforms, but I've never tried, so I can't say how that will work out.

Do you have a router? Here's what I suggest:

Use a router, then have your Linux box as a client under your LAN, then just have it act as a fileserver or something. Then you only have one ethernet card in it and don't have to worry as much about networking pains. Routers are easy to set up, ours basically set itself up automatically.
 
Old 09-13-2003, 02:24 PM   #6
Amir
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Just use the ip masquerade HOWTO. Its very detailed and easy. I just did a similar setup to yours and it works great. Here is the link:

http://en.tldp.org/HOWTO/IP-Masquerade-HOWTO/

If you have any more questions, i can help, email me at sanaqvi@engin.umd.umich.edu
 
Old 09-13-2003, 02:56 PM   #7
Tiger-Striped
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well I don't even have a linux running I don't know where to start and how to configure it so it's a server using the proper kernel...my distro is slackware....
 
Old 09-13-2003, 11:08 PM   #8
Eqwatz
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Well, shucks.

Slackware needs a little more user imput than some of the other distros.

I'm told it is easy, but I lacked courage.

Unfortunately, if I am offered too many choices I make wrong ones. I hosed Debian twice, and slithered back to RH. It's kind of me-proof.

You really don't have to worry about the kernel, it is the same for a desktop or a server. Linux is broken up into services. Everything is a file or a service. The X-Windows part of linux is a service, so is file serving, file sharing, printing. The Web server is an application (program) which provides additional services.

When we talk about "custom kernels" the actual operating system is really compiled (built from the actual programming language) specifically for the hardware it is running on. This makes it very powerful, as it is using the hardware to it's utmost capacity. And, the operating system can be stripped of everything which isn't needed or wanted so it can be made to be small and very stable.

With linux, not only can the operating system be custom to the hardware, but most of the actual applications can be compiled in the same way, making the level of officiency very impressive.

Chances are pretty good that if you don't have 'cutting edge" or really oddball hardware the Slackware will probably install without a hitch. The main exception will be your telephone modem-if you have one. You do want the full distro, not the single CD disk. If you have a DVD/CD-rom combo drive, don't install from that, put it in the CDRW drive instead. Combo-drives--at least mine--can be to slow to respond and cause the install to burp.

You may want to put together a hardware list--the different chipsets within your computer, in case it wants specifics that the install scripts didn't detect. If you have windows installed you can get that information in a few different ways. It depends on what you are used to. You can go to the hardware manager and write them down by clicking properties of each device. The advanced settings on the monitor will give you the horizontal and vertical refresh rates--you do that from the control panel--display--advanced settings. The system information tool will give you the specific north and south bridge chipset information as well as the video chipset and ethernet chipset if you didn't get them from the properties buttons. Write all that down just in case. And the specific sound card information.

Then, install it. It may just slurp right on in there without a hitch.
There are many tools which are built-in, you just have to discern their names. Once slackware is installed the command ls will list directories, the word less will give you text one page at a time. The full distro will have KDE, a desktop system. I don't know all of the choices you will have to make on install. 2G is not enough if you choose a whole bunch of stuff. The desktop will have many of the tools in a GUI form. You just have to look around to find them. From the command line, the commands are going to reside in /bin and /sbin. There are many, to see them all you ls /bin | less. Then ls /sbin |less. Then you use man. (short for manual) And info. Then, google.com/linux.

It is a steep learning curve.
 
Old 09-14-2003, 12:10 AM   #9
Tiger-Striped
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WOW...thanx..that is the first reply I ever got in all the months of trying to learn linux that made sense to me every keystroke typed forming bits and bytes of data linked together to represent english language characters that I can actually read and understand...lol...well here I go on to my first attempt at starting a linux server....

I have a slackware installed on my other partition, but the problem is that I try to read the manuals with man I get an error as though it doesn't exist, and then I type info cause I was told it was like man but it doesn't exist either...hmph....frustrating and you are right it does take a great deal of time and frustration to learn Linux. I seen the power of what it can do over windows, and I want to learn it more but too much trouble it seems to me....well enough of my gibberish, thank you again.....
 
Old 09-14-2003, 10:22 AM   #10
Eqwatz
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[[2G is not enough. To have a Desktop, room for updates and packages, a swap partition, and various stuff like compilers (for building kernels/packages from source), and all of the networking stuff you are looking at quite a bit more.
RH is bloated. This I do know.

The /usr partition of my O.S. is 2.4G.
/SWAP is 520M.
/boot is 20M.
/var is 405M. The reason for this on red hat is /var/spool/up2date and the choice I made to keep copies of the updates and repackage the old rpm's in case I need to undo the updates for some reason.
"/" (even with the system divided into these other partitions) is still 230M.

The KDE+GNOME+Office Suite (Desktop) is roughly 1.3G all by itself. part of it resides in /root and other portions reside in /tmp and /usr. The Desktop is huge.

Trying to "pick and choose" if you don't have a real good plan on paper is a guarantee for a hosed install.

If you plan everything and use a light-weight window manager and leave out the office suite, it will fit no problem. Knoppix fits on one CD and is a complete Linux system. Uncompressed and installed + a /SWAP partition will net you well under 2G. Slackware-based rescue CDs are a complete system on one CD. Some even have a minimalist Desktop. It can be done, it will just take a lot of reading and some work.]]


Your path variable may be buggered up, try using the full path-name for man.

prompt$>: /usr/bin/man <space> command-name.

Or you may have typed in a hurry and left out the space between the (command) man and the object you want a manual for.

The actual man-pages should be located in the directory /usr/share/man.

There should be directories: man1, man2, man3, man4 . . . man9. The directories indicating languages are localized versions of the man-pages.

Info is located in the same directory: /usr/bin. Again, the full path-name would be:

prompt$>: /usr/bin/info <space> object-name. (object-name being the command you want information on.)

Note: This is assuming you either have a console window opened in your desk-top or you boot-up to a command line. Don't type the "prompt$>:" that is just identifying the fact that the command is being entered from a console/command-line.

One thing to remember when you get frustrated over man-pages, is that they were mostly written by programmers. So, they define the objects, variables and delimiters, by using regular expressions. Causing (in my case) brain cells to start committing suicide.

Many of the writers of alternate documentation have been tainted by these regular expressions--like they are some sort of transmitted disease.

This is why you need to keep a scratch-pad and pencil by the computer. Write the stuff down yourself, and interpret the stuff on paper. Frequently, that is the difference between banging your head off of the keyboard, -or- the "aha!" moment. Mastering the man-pages will prepare you for all sorts of powerful things on any computer.

Variations of regular expressions are used in shell scripting/programming. (Which is nothing more than commands entered one-per-line in a file. The first two lines in the file will have specific information--called a header--to tell it whether you are using bash, pearl, php, ruby, "C" programming, or whatever.

When you can interpret those usage--regular expressions--you will probably be able to make sense of the "Source". The actual code which is compiled to build the linux kernel and packages (should you choose to compile them from scratch).

If you have no books on Unix or linux. And the stuff starts to drive you up the wall.

Start with the text-book "Harley Hahn's Student Guide to Unix." It is cheesy, dated, and old.

A) You should be able to order it used. (CHEAP!)

B) It is still one of the best introductions to the Unix/linux command-line to be found anywhere. It is still in print, and it is still being used in classrooms--because it is good.

C) No matter what anyone tells you, in linux you will end up on the command-line. (Frankly, in WINDOWS--for administrative tasks and scripting--you end up on the command-line as well.)

One thing to know. When you start really dinking around in Linux, you will find much of it applies to windows as well. Windows stuff is done in a different way, with different file locations and syntax--but the tasks and procedures will translate.

The linux administrative tasks are done directly, by editing the actual configuration files. Either with tools, or with an editor like vi or emacs. On linux, you have complete control. (That is why there are specific warnings about using any variation of "GOD" for admin. passwords--those are the first things "crackers" look for.)

In Windows, those tasks may involve actual configuration files, or indirect manipulation via registry edits, or passing information via "init" files, or "policies", or other such things.

Last edited by Eqwatz; 09-15-2003 at 08:10 AM.
 
Old 09-14-2003, 11:12 AM   #11
Tiger-Striped
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Just to be on the safe side when I installed the slackware distro was 2gb enough?...cause I am having alot problem trying to activate the desktop--not that it's important that it works, it's just significant that I know the distro is working in full effect.
 
Old 09-15-2003, 10:00 AM   #12
Eqwatz
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Sorry my posts are so long. . .

I'm not very organized. Check the top of post 10.

I got in trouble for posting in chunks, instead of editing earlier posts to include more information.

blah . .blah. . .blah . . .blah . .blah. . .blah . . .blah . .blah. . .blah is the original post.

[blah . .blah. . .blah] is a revision to original post, unless I forget.

[[blah . .blah. . .blah . . .blah . .blah. . .blah]] is a response for a later post--unless of course, I forget.

Last edited by Eqwatz; 09-15-2003 at 10:01 AM.
 
Old 09-15-2003, 08:57 PM   #13
Tiger-Striped
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No, Linux is installed on my personal computer. I meant that the installation package was only 2gb. I have 30 gb on my hd dedicated to linux. Well this thread is not about the desktop anyways. Thanks again guys for your help and suggestions. I appreaciate it!...If you guys need any help with web-design solutions e-mail me maybe I can help. Millenium_Viet@hotmail.com
 
  


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