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Old 06-12-2019, 03:43 PM   #16
noordinaryspider
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KileWood View Post
I heard about PureOS that looks like Linux. I wonder what will come of it. Maybe something worthwhile?
I sincerely hope it does, but this is why I am not optimistic: https://trisquel.info/en/forum/puris...ng-libre-phone

and this is what you might like instead:

https://www.replicant.us/about.php

and this is what I, personally, actually use for a "phone number":

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/8...-phone-network


Best of luck and hth

Last edited by noordinaryspider; 06-12-2019 at 03:47 PM.
 
Old 06-12-2019, 11:04 PM   #17
ondoho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noordinaryspider View Post
I sincerely hope it does, but this is why I am not optimistic: https://trisquel.info/en/forum/puris...ng-libre-phone
saying "this" and pointing to a forum thread where people generally hate on a commercial product for 2 pages - also outdated, last post in 2017 - you really should specify what you mean.

I am by no means blue-eyed about puri.sm, but that phone is currently the only succesful effort to bring together free hardware & free software in a smartphone.

Quote:
and this is what I, personally, actually use for a "phone number":
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/8...-phone-network
now that looks very interesting.
will have to take a closer look - unless you'd like to walk me through the process?
 
Old 06-14-2019, 12:24 PM   #18
Crippled
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Originally Posted by Ktasy View Post
I don't think so,some of the software is pretty good.
It looks like you don't know. That software comes from the Google Play-Spyware/Malware Store. There is nothing good about software that you have no control over, collects data from you and sends it all back to Google which sells it to whoever pays them for it.
 
Old 06-14-2019, 12:32 PM   #19
Crippled
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Quote:
Originally Posted by system001 View Post
in the meantime you my want to take a look to this

https://fossbytes.com/use-android-wi...-alternatives/
Thanks, that's what I am talking about but what they are wrong in that article in that link is there are no custom ROMs available unless you can afford paying for a custom phone.
 
Old 06-18-2019, 12:14 AM   #20
ondoho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crippled View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by system001 View Post
in the meantime you my want to take a look to this
https://fossbytes.com/use-android-wi...-alternatives/
Thanks, that's what I am talking about but what they are wrong in that article in that link is there are no custom ROMs available unless you can afford paying for a custom phone.
erm, what?
That article just lists alternatives to replace Google apps/stuff, i.e. maps, play store, youtube, gmail, google account itself etc.
It talks about the option to install a different ROM, but no custom devices are mentioned - and you don't need one:
E.g. LineageOS installs perfectly fine on a long list of standard consumer devices:
https://download.lineageos.org/
 
Old 06-19-2019, 06:33 PM   #21
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You could use the Chinese phone - Xiaomi. It uses the MIUI OS on top of Android.
In China the MIUI OS has no 'google services'. These services have been replaced by their Chinese counterparts.

Of course, that's no help unless you can read Mandarin.
So Xiaomi also have a global version. This one does have google services.
The difference is that google is unable to change the OS 'over the air'.
So although your new phone is clean from the factory, as soon as you activate it - a huge number of google programs are installed with all the accompanying spyware.
With Xiaomi that's not possible - because google isn't allowed to modify the factory OS.

Also since your 'hardened' phone still has google services - you'll still need to show good opsec by avoiding google apps as much as possible.
As far as I know the most 'secure' phone is one with a 2G network only with no GPS receiver.
If you want a secure smartphone - then Xiaomi is the only phone that can work without 'google services' and most importantly - does not allow google to interfere with its factory OS.
And unlike most countries in the world China is not 'owned' by big corporations like google and apple.

Xiaomi does not replace Android - it is a fork of Android.
However, with the Xiaomi global version we presume it is less capable of recording our calls and web-browsing on our smartphone.
For a secure phone this is a great leap in security than using normal google Android.

Last edited by carlito386; 06-19-2019 at 06:37 PM.
 
Old 06-20-2019, 10:38 AM   #22
teckk
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Quote:
You could use the Chinese phone
Not sure if you are joking about this or not. I think that I would rather trust google or microsoft. Google wants to spy on you so that they can target you with advertising and make money. China wants to spy on people so that they can send them to the reeducation camp, and take points away for not being a good citizen, no flying or bus passes for you, bad citizen!
 
Old 06-21-2019, 04:30 AM   #23
zeebra
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Originally Posted by Crippled View Post
I am sick and tired with this Google Spyware/Malware called Android. Is there or are there any plans to come out with a real GNU/Linux O.S. for smart phones that actually work on every smart phone that runs Android? Not Linage since it doesn't work on all smart phones. I am looking for something that I have full control over my phone like I have full control over my desktop and laptop computers that I have MX-18.2 Linux on both of them. Is there anything?
Sadly it is not possible.

1. All Android phones (samsung etc) comes with secret firmware and non-available drivers, most of which cannot be hacked and made open source. Thus all efforts, notably Ubuntu failed, because they could not accomplish hardware compatibility.
2. Even if a large company (Samsung) wanted to deliver a Linux phone, it would most likely not be possible, because Chinese (and other) chipmakers will not allow them to release open drivers, and probably have too much control over the firmware. A good example of this is the Nokia N900 which is the most open Linux'ish (busybox) phone ever. There were great efforts to release dual boots and other systems, but these ultimately failed due to hardware secrets and lack of viable drivers, secret firmware etc. Some drivers were actually hacked and made open source.
3. If a new company was to make a fully new hardware and a GNU/Linux phone, it would not be possible due to patents. There is no entry point into the mobile market, as any necessary technology is patented and owned by very few companies. So anything that resembles a mobile phone with any necessary technology will require any maker to purchase a bunch of licences even for a phone that avoids most patents. A more normal approach would result in having to buy so many licences for patents that the product in no way could be an independent mobile product and most technology in it would be licenced. This is the case even if they developed all their hardware from scratch. The way the patent system works, it is impossible to make any new mobile products at this time, the market is 100% owned by very few companies. That's not even considering a scenario where one would use the hardware of other companies, which would probably make it impossible to make a GNU licence compliant phone.
4. Android is ultimately a closed system posing as an open system. It is not possible to use the Android Kernel and slap a GNU/Linux system on top. The Android Kernel is bound to proprietary systems and trade secrets, and this middle system is tied to Java and the end OS product, which ultimately makes the Kernel and the Java parts dependent on each others, which makes it impossible to replace either in any meaningful way.
5. Any alternative OS to Android (cyanogen )is pretty much just fake mods of Android, ugly hacks that changes nothing fundamental.
6. Any effort to progress in regards to alternative OS'es is hampered by the way the OS is built into and distributed to phones. They are "flashed" and the flashing itself is possible to hack, but is generally proprietary. Even adding or changing an OS on such a phone is far more complex than doing the same on a computer, and further prevents any progress.
7. No hardware producers (foxconn etc) is interested in producing less than an enourmous amount of phones. This makes is very difficult if not impossible to find any manufacturer that will actually put together less than millions of phones, possibly tens of millions. This is ofcourse a great hinderance to any new potential maker.

So no, sadly, N900 was the closes we will ever get. And I'm guessing Maemo and Nokias stated goal of making a true GNU/Linux phone "in the future" was the reason the company had to be taken down as it posed a great threat to the future ownership of the market and any efforts to fully control this market, including making the system OWN the customer and any surveillance and control that comes with such a situation (NSA, CIA etc). Nokia and their efforts was not only a threat to the other mobile phone makers, they were a threat to the US government agencies and their global intelligence programs.

It's not even remotely possible to get a half open phone again (like the N900), and much less and open phone (GNU/Linux). My experience with the most open phone ever (N900) is impressive from a technological user perspective, but in regards to openness it was quite disappointing. It was not very open, in fact quite restricted. But it was far better than any alternatives and you were granted more freedoms, more hacking was possible and more alternatives came from it. But it was far from open, far from free. But looking back now and comparing it to what we have today, it was indeed very free, relatively speaking. I don't even know or understand how restrictive Android and Apple products are, but I avoid thinking that the reality is the very worst, so I am generally less negative about these products than I probably should be, and they are probably far worse than I assume. They could be something alike to my worst fears regarding these products, or close to it, which is pretty gruesome. And looking at people with these phones, I sometimes wonder if the worst is not actually true, rather than my more moderate and optimistic wishful thinking about these products. Looking at how the world is developing, these things could actually in a worst case scenario be an authoritarian madmans dream to create drones to the madman.

But I don't want to think that is true.

But for sure, it is not true that it is possible to create an open mobile system, firstly it would infringe on the owners of the market, and secondly if it was done somehow, it would be taken down by the owners of that market. The only way it could survive would be as an illegal underground product.

Last edited by zeebra; 06-21-2019 at 04:39 AM.
 
Old 06-21-2019, 04:31 AM   #24
zeebra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teckk View Post
Not sure if you are joking about this or not. I think that I would rather trust google or microsoft. Google wants to spy on you so that they can target you with advertising and make money. China wants to spy on people so that they can send them to the reeducation camp, and take points away for not being a good citizen, no flying or bus passes for you, bad citizen!
China, sure... Not us.. Couldn't possibly happen here, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ondoho View Post
Lineage OS = Android

Last edited by zeebra; 06-21-2019 at 04:35 AM.
 
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Old 06-24-2019, 05:36 AM   #25
ondoho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeebra View Post
Lineage OS = Android
I know that. Or AOSP to be precise (plus numerous firmware blobs for each device).
My post was not meant to create the illusion that one had banned the big G only by installing LOS.
And that was precisely my criticism of the article linked.
 
Old 07-07-2019, 09:36 PM   #26
Leida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KileWood View Post
I heard about PureOS that looks like Linux. I wonder what will come of it. Maybe something worthwhile?
Maybe it is not worth it.
 
  


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