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Old 12-21-2020, 11:51 PM   #31
Mill J
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ondoho View Post
As an actual phone (and for SMS)?
Yes. I frequent the the Pinephone chat and there's guys who have been using it as a daily driver for several months. Granted it's not that easy for everybody. Arch ARM and Manjaro seems to be what most of the daily drivers use.
 
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Old 01-10-2021, 02:30 PM   #32
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For a January 2021 update on the state of Librem5 and Pine64 I found this extremely interesting and valuable. It's looking like it's time to get really excited!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z29aJCTn-mY
 
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Old 01-11-2021, 03:58 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
For a January 2021 update on the state of Librem5 and Pine64 I found this extremely interesting and valuable. It's looking like it's time to get really excited!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z29aJCTn-mY
Oh, it's that Librem 5 fanboy. He almost lost his faith about a year ago, and sounds slightly more sober now.
Basically he's now saying that the Librem 5 and the Pinephone are both equally usable.
Since he still is the Librem 5 YouTube posterboy, and considering many previous, more troubled reviews (*), it is conspicuous that he says nothing about battery life, heat, and making actual phone calls with his 800$ fetish (**). Well, at most it seems to be on par with the 150$ Pinephone.

(*)
Quote:
"I got my hands on the #Librem5 Phone!" - Linux Gamer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1haFGa7ZyPs

It doesn't even have a file browser yet!
I think I'll wait another year 'til they perfect everything, then get a Pinephone and install Pure OS on that.

Don't get me wrong, it's great that we have it, Purism are doing great work here, but...
they're not the first and not the only ones doing this.
GNU/Linux-based phones - as we here know best, there's actually quite a lot of that around, and has been for a long while. They say this is completely open - is it though? Where are the reviewers that aren't wetting their pants with excitement, but really rolling up their sleeves to get into that OS? Can I really just "apt-get install whateveriwant"?

Todd Weaver's self-appraising navel-gazing speech is hard to stomach in this video.
Quote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74dhBddET2E

The modularity is pretty cool.
But he did NOT switch it back on after he dis- and then reassembled it.
Do they take me for an idiot?
Quote:
This post has left me less confident in the leadership of Purism: https://jaylittle.com/post/view/2019...ibrem-5-part-2

Oh-My-God.

Also read part 1, which itself drops a few bombs:

Quote:
Most notably among those things is the ability to make and receive traditional phone calls. Sure we've seen screenshots of it calling people, but we've never actually heard it do this. This is important because according to Purism's own public issue tracker, call audio currently has severe unresolved problems, meaning that its currently not possible to comfortably make a traditional phone call on the Librem 5. In addition, Todd Weaver openly admitted in one of his videos with Gardiner, that the phones camera and bluetooth hardware does not yet function. He also stated that battery life is still rather poor as he himself requires two fully charged batteries himself to get through a full day. In addition the phone still lacks proper power management and future iterations will be re-engineered to include a heat pipe that will help with the current thermal issues.

Finally, despite the fact that Purism heavily implied on the original crowdfunding page that it was supposed to be powered by a full FOSS stack, it has now been made clear that the phone will have to use proprietary firmware blobs for a variety of onboard devices.

Despite all of these issues, they are saying this device is ready to be shipped to customers.
Actually one should read the whole trilogy.

It certainly explains why I've never seen an actual review (as in "I am using this as my mobile device now, and this is my verdict").

Let me get one thing clear:
I don't really care if Purism are an arsehole company. We all use devices from arsehole companies every day and can be quiet content & happy about it.
I don't care if the Librem 5 is ridiculously overpriced - we all know that's how it goes when you produce in small numbers.
I don't even care that they a few promises about the phone being 100% FOSS, soft and hard. Really, one or two blobs are OK for me.

But I do care that there doesn't seem to be a single Purism 5 in existence that actually works!
I do care about a bunch of FOSS developers that develop software for a device that does not exist!
Not to speak of all the backers and pre-orderers that are being fed lies after lies after lies.
(All quotes Oct 2019)

(**) the later they were behind with making a usable device, the more expensive it got.
"Early bird" was 600$, final shipping price was to be 700$ in Dec 2019...
 
Old 01-11-2021, 04:23 PM   #34
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It's curious how the PinePhone site seems to only feature one edition of the phone for sale (currently it's KDE Plasma) which rotates every couple of months. They do this rather than allowing a choice between the different preset edition phones (editions being: Ubuntu Touch/KDE Plasma/PostmarketOS/Manjaro/Sailfish/ or whatever). Granted, once someone has the phone, presumably they can set up whatever edition they want on it, but that's more effort than getting it already set up. I find that a bit odd.
 
Old 01-11-2021, 04:31 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ondoho View Post
Well, at most it [Librem 5] seems to be on par with the 150$ Pinephone.
Yeah, I don't see any advantage to the Librem 5 over the Pinephone.
 
Old 01-11-2021, 04:33 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_alfred View Post
It's curious how the PinePhone site seems to only feature one edition of the phone for sale (currently it's KDE Plasma) which rotates every couple of months. They do this rather than allowing a choice between the different preset edition phones (editions being: Ubuntu Touch/KDE Plasma/PostmarketOS/Manjaro/Sailfish/ or whatever). Granted, once someone has the phone, presumably they can set up whatever edition they want on it, but that's more effort than getting it already set up. I find that a bit odd.
You look at the quality of the hardware of the device Todd Weaver proudly presents to the youtuber.
You look at that youtuber's fanboy face that cannot hide his disappointment.
You read the jaylittle article.
And my comments.
There's a lot more than just "a bit odd".
 
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Old 01-11-2021, 05:53 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_alfred View Post
It's curious how the PinePhone site seems to only feature one edition of the phone for sale (currently it's KDE Plasma) which rotates every couple of months. They do this rather than allowing a choice between the different preset edition phones (editions being: Ubuntu Touch/KDE Plasma/PostmarketOS/Manjaro/Sailfish/ or whatever). Granted, once someone has the phone, presumably they can set up whatever edition they want on it, but that's more effort than getting it already set up. I find that a bit odd.
Pine64 keeps cost down by shipping in batches. So far each batch shipped with a different OS and the community of that OS received $10 for every device sold in that batch. That adds up to a nice sum when a single batch includes several thousand devices and I certainly haven't heard any devs complain That also debunks Purism's claim that the Pinephone doesn't fund software development.

I've heard they are planning one more Community Edition. After that they were talking about also selling OS branded backcovers(since that's all that's different anyway) that will support the community of your choice.

As far as the preinstalled OS, super easy to flash the emmc or you can run on a sdcard like any other SBC.
 
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Old 01-11-2021, 06:35 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ondoho View Post
Oh, it's that Librem 5 fanboy. He almost lost his faith about a year ago, and sounds slightly more sober now.
Correct. You have to take his videos with a grain of salt.

Quote:
Basically he's now saying that the Librem 5 and the Pinephone are both equally usable.
Not exactly. He released a biased video comparing the two. It was basically just about what the Librem 5 could do. Even the boot time looked sketchy. I've booted phosh many times by now. It always boots to the lockscreen (that you can't turn off). I didn't see any thing on the L5 by the time the Pinephone booted. Throughout the video he does prove that the L5 is slightly faster(not Firefox though), which for the price it certainly should be.

My gripe with the L5 is certainly not the hardware, or even the alpha/beta software. It's the false promises, advertising, and shady dealings by the company behind the project. Right now I would NOT recommend a Pinephone to a regular end user, you'd need to know quite a bit about Linux before I'd recommend it. I'm sure the Librem 5 is no different, yet check out Purism's blogs or multiple YouTube channels and all you'll see is how nice this phone IS and how private, etc. Nothing about needing to be a geek to use one.

In contrast when I ordered my phone I knew exactly what to expect. There was a disclaimer on the store page saying it's for developers and there where lots of non-biased Pinephone videos that were not sponsered by Pine64. I was actually surprised at the general usability.


P.S. You've been wondering about call quality in the Pinephone. While I haven't tried different carriers yet, I did do some Wi-Fi calling on Telagram to test the hardware. Speakerphone is a joke since the speaker is too close to the mic, it's fine on my end but the other person gets a serious echo. On the other hand I or the user at the other end have no complaints about the earpiece. I'm sure cellular will degrade the sound a little but at least the hardware itself is capable.
 
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Old 01-12-2021, 01:37 AM   #39
ondoho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mill J View Post
My gripe with the L5 is certainly not the hardware, or even the alpha/beta software. It's the false promises, advertising, and shady dealings by the company behind the project. Right now I would NOT recommend a Pinephone to a regular end user, you'd need to know quite a bit about Linux before I'd recommend it. I'm sure the Librem 5 is no different, yet check out Purism's blogs or multiple YouTube channels and all you'll see is how nice this phone IS and how private, etc. Nothing about needing to be a geek to use one.

In contrast when I ordered my phone I knew exactly what to expect. There was a disclaimer on the store page saying it's for developers and there where lots of non-biased Pinephone videos that were not sponsered by Pine64. I was actually surprised at the general usability.
This.

I've been ranting about these things for over a year now. I seem like a hater, which I'm not. It just annoys me that again and again people praise it as the Linux phone (or small Linux computer as that youtuber insists) we've all been waiting for, how ethical and selfless Purism are for doing this, and how excited they are... I guess none of them even read this article:
https://jaylittle.com/post/view/2019...ibrem-5-part-1
https://jaylittle.com/post/view/2019...ibrem-5-part-2
https://jaylittle.com/post/view/2019...ibrem-5-part-3
And, I'll say it again:
Quote:
I don't really care if Purism are an arsehole company. We all use devices from arsehole companies every day and can be quiet content & happy about it.
I don't care if the Librem 5 is ridiculously overpriced - we all know that's how it goes when you produce in small numbers.
I don't even care that they made a few false promises about the phone being 100% FOSS, soft and hard. Really, one or two blobs are OK for me.
But I do care about Purism deliberately taking adavantage of these "believers", thus besmirching not only their own product but the whole idea of "ethical" producing.

And while I don't even care for those constant Pinephone/Librem 5 comparisons, both companies totally deserve it.
Because every time it's clear that both the Pinephone device and the pine64 company totally come out on top.
 
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Old 01-13-2021, 12:04 PM   #40
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I posted that particular YouTube link because it was new and mentioned that Librem5 had completed their initial hardware beta stage and could now concentrate more heavily on software. I saw it as an indication that the basics are now pretty solid and development should accelerate and possibly even bring in a few new players. Most importantly after watching a half-dozen similar (but older) videos I figure that whatever anyone thinks of the reviewer it's helpful that he has a substantial length of experience with Linux phones AND recognizes it is true "convergence".

Regarding "convergence" I have yet to see any videos demonstrating the docking ability but some say that Librem5 does already dock with the only gotcha being that touchscreen based distros are usually clunky with a mouse. I'm not at all certain that Pine64 has accomplished real docking, including monitor, keyboard and mouse yet. That's not a huge deal yet but I strongly suspect it will become one and possibly very much matter to the appeal of true Linux phones.... errr...general computing devices
 
Old 01-13-2021, 01:24 PM   #41
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^ Did you read the jaylittle article yet?
Do so and tell me you still trust that device, and the company that produces it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
I figure that whatever anyone thinks of the reviewer it's helpful that he has a substantial length of experience with Linux phones AND recognizes it is true "convergence".
Grain of salt, grain of salt I say.
Have you seen the painful display of Todd "The King" Weaver visiting him at home? :cringe:

Anyhow, I don't give a flying frog about convergence.
Most people have more than 1 device anyhow (counting smart TVs, most people have at least 3 devices) and no desire to change that.
Syncing across devices, network storage, remote maintenance etc., now that's a different matter.
But plugging my phone into my screen when I get home? Overrated IMO.
 
Old 01-13-2021, 09:09 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
Regarding "convergence" I have yet to see any videos demonstrating the docking ability but some say that Librem5 does already dock with the only gotcha being that touchscreen based distros are usually clunky with a mouse. I'm not at all certain that Pine64 has accomplished real docking, including monitor, keyboard and mouse yet. That's not a huge deal yet but I strongly suspect it will become one and possibly very much matter to the appeal of true Linux phones.... errr...general computing devices
I've seen a purism video showcasing convergence. But I'm not sure if I've seen an end user video yet. I'm fairly confident it works though since the kernel should support it. I'm sure it works under certain OS's/DE's on the Pinephone(minus Braveheart and Ubports CE), I've seen a bunch of end user videos and photos. Although I haven't got myself a dock yet, I've messed with convergent apps. It's getting closer to seamless as the ui toolkits start gaining the ability to show different configurations depending on the size of the window.

I used to despise the Gnome/GTK 3 apps, such as the ones with the big bar at the top. Now they finally make sense, and I keep my eye open for them because there is a good chance they'll work on mobile as well.
 
Old 01-15-2021, 08:45 PM   #43
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There is actually an end user review of the Librem 5 on YouTube, it's fairly long and slightly boring but here it is: https://youtube.com/watch?v=Nu53AHdvwtM

He does seem a little harsh on his review so make sure to watch the follow up and it'll make more sense https://youtube.com/watch?v=mkrOuZgeEeQ
 
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Old 01-16-2021, 04:21 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mill J View Post
There is actually an end user review of the Librem 5 on YouTube, it's fairly long and slightly boring but here it is: https://youtube.com/watch?v=Nu53AHdvwtM
Oh yes, that's much more up my alley - just the first 2 minutes or so, but I'll finish watching it.
+1 for mentioning Nokia N900. Mine still works btw, I even bought a replacement battery recently. And of course I must mention Maemo Leste now.
 
Old 01-17-2021, 02:28 PM   #45
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Yes, ondoho, I've read the JayLittle blog on Purism and Librem5 and while I consider both pro and Con articles valuable, his is now 15 months old and it has only been just 1 month that purism declared the final hardware profile. BTW I am quite aware that "Gardiner" is something of a Purism fanboi but just as much as "nottapro" is harsh. Of the two, I do prefer "nottapro" since if Purism is not going to just evaporate but grow instead, they can only do that by solving common problems, some of which are still fairly serious. Also if Purism continues to make promises they can't deliver that is a major problem so hopefully they take note and tone it down considerably. However there is still apparently some diversity in User experience which is likely because of the Beta-at-best stage of Linux phone software. In fact, my excitement was due to discovering that software is likely now on the fast track.

For my part I will likely buy a Pinephone but I do intend to keep my eyes open to see if Pine manages to upgrade their hardware to at least where Librem 5 is now. I wouldn't be surprised if that took place during 2021. I would definitely spend twice the price to have a Pinephone with Librem5 or better hardware. My opinion of Librem5 I reserve until they had a few months on software development.
 
  


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