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Old 02-02-2012, 10:56 PM   #1
NEQTAN
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Critical battery low bug / linux mint 12


Recently received the CRITICAL battery low report, while unplugging from line power.

So i started looking into the problem. Found a few bugs in relation.
Seems there is problems with gnome-power-management and upower.

But I did start tracking down the event handling for the process on my own.

First found the initial event handler script:

etc/acpi/events/battery

There was a linker in there to power.sh of course I found that and opened it.

There is a few parts to it. One refers to check upower policy. another refers to gnome-power-management PMS.

Ive been trying to firstly see if I cant alter the policy. I have looked through most of the files on the box related to upower.

I did find org.freedesktop.upower.device. I altered some of the unknown elements in it. This was a test seeing as there was a patch for debian that this worked to clear up part of the problem.
Im ubuntu based so that did not work. Of course.

While using upower -m in terminal i found another org file come up.

org/freedesktop/upower/devices/battery_bat1

I tried to find that as org.freedesktop.upower.devices.battery_bat1
, file search returned nothing.

I have read there are some gnome-power-management workarounds. But I have been hoping to manually fix the upower problem. What and where is the upower policy for this function? Also does anyone know how to open or alter the battery_bat1 file either through ui or terminal?
 
Old 02-06-2012, 03:45 PM   #2
Doc CPU
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Hi there,

Quote:
Originally Posted by NEQTAN View Post
Recently received the CRITICAL battery low report, while unplugging from line power.
and have you found a solution in the meantime? - Because I've run into the same problem now. I installed Mint 12 on my notebook, and when I removed AC power, I instantly got that message that wrongly notified me of a critically low battery status and left me with the decision of "Shut down? Cancel or OK". I chose "Cancel", and only seconds later, my system shut down anyway.

[X] Doc CPU
 
Old 02-06-2012, 11:57 PM   #3
NEQTAN
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workarounds

Yes I have found multiple workarounds. That you could try.

This is a you tube link: It pertains to Ubuntu 11.10 (Linux Mint is based on ubuntu so it should work)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQ-SMAK9dNo

You can also try the fixes proposed here:

http://askubuntu.com/questions/70877...ally-low-at-85

One person said that this fix worked for them:
"
I've found that editing /usr/share/polkit-1/actions/org.freedesktop.upower.policy so that hibernate's <allow_active> to "no" fixed it for me. It completely removes hibernate functionality (a plus for me as I abhor that garbage). As an added bonus it removes it from the session menu."

Reference:

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+s...er/+bug/860427

I have personally tried to alter one of the scripts to alter the unknown elements. As I stated above.

A fix I was working on but have not found the time to confirm, was to change the dict entry for the "energy-empty" from double 0 to 10% of the energy-full number. (energy-empty=7.5 if energy-full=75)

Reference:

http://upower.freedesktop.org/docs/Device.html

use ctrl-f: energy-empty

From what I have read upower seems to have problems calculating the battery measurement properly. I also dont like the time-to-empty and time-to-full values are set at zero as well. It uses int64 to find those values. Then upower sends its findings across dbus to gnome-power-management witch addresses the findings accordingly.

If you care to, read this: It will help to understand how the whole process works and runs through the troubleshooting procedures:

http://www.monperrus.net/martin/trou...er-preferences

Ive done some work on this problem

Post back if this helps or does not help. Possibly we can work together on the matter.

Good luck.
 
Old 02-07-2012, 03:50 PM   #4
Doc CPU
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Hi there,

Quote:
Originally Posted by NEQTAN View Post
Yes I have found multiple workarounds. That you could try.
yes, I'm gonna try a little over the next two or three days. There's a lot you offered me to read.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NEQTAN View Post
This is a you tube link: It pertains to Ubuntu 11.10 (Linux Mint is based on ubuntu so it should work)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQ-SMAK9dNo
Sorry, but youtube is on my block list. - No, honestly I'm not sorry about that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NEQTAN View Post
I've found that editing /usr/share/polkit-1/actions/org.freedesktop.upower.policy so that hibernate's <allow_active> to "no" fixed it for me. It completely removes hibernate functionality (a plus for me as I abhor that garbage). As an added bonus it removes it from the session menu.
Okay, disabling hibernation while hibernation is configured as the standard action for the "battery low" event sounds a bit twisted. ;-)
And yes, I decline hibernation, too. When I want to turn off my computer, I shut down the system normally.
In real life, however, I regret very much that mankind isn't made for hibernating - especially considering the hard winter conditions we're suddenly experiencing in Europe. But very often I felt the desire to retire in late November or early December, and wake up no sooner than late March or mid-April.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NEQTAN View Post
Wow. Sounds interesting, but I can't put this in a familiar context.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NEQTAN View Post
Hmm. Looks like an interesting collection of facts, but stops short of the point where it's really getting interesting: How can I make use of that knowledge?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NEQTAN View Post
Post back if this helps or does not help. Possibly we can work together on the matter.
Will do. Let's see if we can get something untied. But don't expect an answer of mine until next weekend.

[X] Doc CPU
 
Old 02-07-2012, 11:04 PM   #5
NEQTAN
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workarounds

What I offered is just a drop in the bucket, compared to what I have read.
  • I guess I cant blame you for blocking youtube. Is google by chance on that black list as well? lol
  • Yeah removing hibernate does sound odd I suppose and is honestly not the best solution. As it does not fix the underlying problem.
  • org.freedesktop.upower.device

    Device is a file (One of many) that contain some of the instructions for the upower program (package). By altering some of the settings that are in relation to how upower reads the battery stats. We can possibly fix its problem of falsely reading the battery of being critically low.

    For instance as I mentioned the dict entry for energy-empty is set to 0:

    dict entry(
    string "energy-empty"
    variant double 0
    )

    If the entry is set to a realistic number such as 10% of full than the program should have a better reference point.

    Same gos for, time-to-empty and time-to-full values are set at zero as well.

    )
    dict entry(
    string "time-to-empty"
    variant int64 0
    )
    dict entry(
    string "time-to-full"
    variant int64 0
    )

    I think if given a realistic value the program would quit reading the battery incorrectly. I think the engineering of the program is incomplete as to how the battery levels are calculated. It may need user intervention, to make it operate according to how each machine works.

    Each AC adapter for a laptop puts out various voltages. Therefore the battery will receive the voltage supplied by the adapter. But the flow is that similar to a trickle charger for a car battery. So if those readings could be implemented into the programs evaluation process (the dictionary entries) as per energy-rate, voltage, etc..

    Doing some tests on the battery could find how long it takes to run down the battery to empty and how long it takes to fully charge from empty. These results could properly set the time entries.

Hopefully that puts it into a context you can relate to.
  • http://www.monperrus.net/martin/troubleshooting+gnome-power-manager+and+gnome-power-preferences

    At the point where the article begins the troubleshooting process. The author is going the necessary steps to verify that all the key components are in place. To insure that the program will run as intended.

    If any one of the commands run in terminal returns with an error or program does not exist or command not recognized message. There is a big problem with the chain of programs that are involved in monitoring power status.

    So if we run the commands and command strings after $. We can begin to asses if everything is in place.

You are correct that the article falls short of completion. I think learning more commands such as gsettings, gconftool-2 and understanding dbus more will help with getting to a point of how to fix the problems that might be found in the troubleshooting process. Im freshly learning much of this. Commands that relate to these applications of the system, file structure and hierarchy.

Some more reading material:

http://hal.freedesktop.org/docs/PolicyKit/

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingGNOMEPowerManager

Ill be working on this over the weekend. I have been waiting for more time to dual boot linux mint 12 onto the laptop and begin testing.

Ending note:

To go further down the rabbit hole. There can be either a bios problem not conveying proper information. As well there can be Kernel problems to blame.

Also making sure everything is up to date for upower, dbus, pm-utils, gnome-power-manager would be worth looking into.

Lastly an interesting program came under my radar:

http://live.gnome.org/BatteryStatus
 
Old 02-08-2012, 04:52 AM   #6
Doc CPU
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Good morning again!

Quote:
Originally Posted by NEQTAN View Post
What I offered is just a drop in the bucket, compared to what I have read.
Yea, I believe that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NEQTAN View Post
I guess I cant blame you for blocking youtube. Is google by chance on that black list as well? lol
Most of it, yes. All domains that I know are connected with Google, except the search engine itself and Google Maps. And these two still have a cookie block to stop them from invading my privacy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NEQTAN View Post
I think if given a realistic value the program would quit reading the battery incorrectly. I think the engineering of the program is incomplete as to how the battery levels are calculated. It may need user intervention, to make it operate according to how each machine works.
There is an intersting question about that, IMHO: Is there a standardized interface to read battery status? I guess this is device specific, though most may work similarly. Same goes for temperature readings: In Ubuntu 10.04 (Lucid) I had a panel indicator that displayed CPU clock, CPU and HDD temperature. While the clock reading was plausible from the start, the temperature readings weren't. I had to tweak the scaling parameters until the temperatures looked comfortable. If they were actually correct ... no idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NEQTAN View Post
Each AC adapter for a laptop puts out various voltages.
Most of them have only one output voltage, with 19V DC being a de facto standard meanwhile.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NEQTAN View Post
Therefore the battery will receive the voltage supplied by the adapter. But the flow is that similar to a trickle charger for a car battery. So if those readings could be implemented into the programs evaluation process (the dictionary entries) as per energy-rate, voltage, etc..
Maybe. But I think that's too complicated. Don't forget that computers have to be cheap in production. No engineer would put in more than necessary. And actually, you can tell the status of a battery by just monitoring the battery voltage and an "AC present" flag.
If the power supply is present, you can assume that the battery is being charged or fully charged already.
If not, you assume that the notebook is running on battery bower.
The battery voltage decreases slowly during dicharging, and it increases slowly during charging. This is, however, not a linear correlation. But knowing the battery type, you can tell the charging status as a percentage from that measurement (there's a big uncertainty anyway).

Modern Li-Ion batteries have a small controller built in that monitors the inbound and outbond flow of energy.

Summing it up: A battery monitoring software must know how to correctly get a battery voltage reading, and it must know the type of battery (most of them are Li-Ion nowadays). So I find it amazing that generic software can actually give a reasonable battery status report on most machines.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NEQTAN View Post
Doing some tests on the battery could find how long it takes to run down the battery to empty and how long it takes to fully charge from empty. These results could properly set the time entries.
That's how the remaining time is calcu... erm, estimated, AFAIK.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NEQTAN View Post
You are correct that the article falls short of completion. I think learning more commands such as gsettings, gconftool-2 and understanding dbus more will help with getting to a point of how to fix the problems that might be found in the troubleshooting process. Im freshly learning much of this. Commands that relate to these applications of the system, file structure and hierarchy.
*shake-hands* Welcome to the club. ;-)
I'm a long-term software engineer and electronics (hardware) developer, but I haven't yet dug that deep into these matters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NEQTAN View Post
To go further down the rabbit hole. There can be either a bios problem not conveying proper information. As well there can be Kernel problems to blame.
There can, of course. And maybe that is an issue in some cases. But I'm rather under the impression that this problem is related to a specific change in GNOME, since it reportedly didn't exist in Ubuntu 11.04, but suddenly appeared in 11.10 - and Mint 12 is a derivative of Ubuntu 11.10, as I understand it.

http://live.gnome.org/BatteryStatus

That looks very interesting, thank you. I'll give it a try these days.

[X] Doc CPU
 
Old 02-08-2012, 08:45 PM   #7
NEQTAN
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Hey Doc,

I have concerns with Google, in regards to the privacy as well. Amazing search engine hands down. I have spent a long time learning how to put in query's that would return the best results. Learning the "dorks" and all the engine can deliver. But I do not use any other service beyond that. I even stopped using the email service shortly after setting it up. lol
Quote:
Temperature readings and battery status interface
Well I think the link for the battery program I posted is what you might have been referring to?

Temperature readings. This is something I was working on just recently. There are some programs that can help for use in linux mint.
But if your pc does not have the proper physical temperature sensors on board then it is no use. A program called fancontrol works directly with lm-sensors witch reads temperatures. I wanted to use these to slow down the loud cpu fan on a laptop.
Quote:
Most of them have only one output voltage, with 19V DC being a de facto standard meanwhile.
Well I stand enlightened. I had seen in a few tutorials that the V was not standardized, so you could see laptops that have various outputs.
Quote:
Summing it up: A battery monitoring software must know how to correctly get a battery voltage reading, and it must know the type of battery (most of them are Li-Ion nowadays). So I find it amazing that generic software can actually give a reasonable battery status report on most machines.
Again the comment about "trickle charge" trickle charge being my words was found in a tutorial. It was also stated that there is a "power board" that controls the function.

I agree. The Software should be able to correctly read stats about the battery, in order to properly display battery life or in our case dead battery "critical battery low".

I have read some forums where ubuntu users were complaining that upower (gnome power management) was showing in the battery tab that it was estimating battery life and showing a battery %. But would never finalize the estimation for time left. Another example of the software not being engineered correctly.
Quote:
That's how the remaining time is calcu... erm, estimated, AFAIK.
From what I can find in the files associated to upower. The dict entries are the only ones that show any real configuration as to how upower gets it's readings. I may be wrong, but logic tells me that has to be it. I will keep working on it.
Quote:
*shake-hands* Welcome to the club. ;-)
I'm a long-term software engineer and electronics (hardware) developer, but I haven't yet dug that deep into these matters.
Warning Off Topic Material:

I'm a long-term Electrician.

I have only in the last 7 years begun to get this deep into computers. It started with the desire to understand the tcp/ip protocol,
of course that required wanting to learn everything about osi, sockets, dns, networks, internet, intranet,......you get the idea. Security was always of interest as well. Be it on a per user basis or network security. IT, IS, you name it. Before this "recession"
I was going to college and in the process of working towards some certifications. CEH and GPEN (CISSP is hard to meet the requirements without an employers reference.)

I have dabbled in programming. I have worked with Visual Basic, Python, C, and ASM. I love the idea of programing in ASM. No compiling, faster, and smaller file sizes. I try to envision an entire system (hardware and software)completely built on ASM. Almost makes having 100gig+ hard drives a waste of space . The CPU and electricity consumption to name a few would benefit from this implementation.
Quote:
There can, of course. And maybe that is an issue in some cases. But I'm rather under the impression that this problem is related to a specific change in GNOME, since it reportedly didn't exist in Ubuntu 11.04, but suddenly appeared in 11.10 - and Mint 12 is a derivative of Ubuntu 11.10, as I understand it.
Yes I have found the same issues after reading through countless forum posts and bug reports. I feel the same but I lean towards upower, as it is the service that gnome utilizes that is related to our problem.

Ok I could write all night. Sorry for my long posts.
 
Old 02-09-2012, 05:31 AM   #8
Doc CPU
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Hi there,

Quote:
Originally Posted by NEQTAN View Post
I even stopped using the [Google] email service shortly after setting it up.
I never trusted that company enough to use their e-mail service. Plus, when it started, it was nearly impossible to get an account. You had to be invited by another account holder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NEQTAN View Post
Quote:
Temperature readings and battery status interface
Well I think the link for the battery program I posted is what you might have been referring to?
That wasn't really a quote of what I said. But anyway, no, at that point I was referring to GNOME's native panel indicator applet in Ubuntu lucid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NEQTAN View Post
Temperature readings. This is something I was working on just recently. There are some programs that can help for use in linux mint.
But if your pc does not have the proper physical temperature sensors on board then it is no use. A program called fancontrol works directly with lm-sensors witch reads temperatures. I wanted to use these to slow down the loud cpu fan on a laptop.
Some time ago I played around with lm-sensors, but it seems this package reads just bogus numbers on Intel Atom based systems. Both on my notebook (Ubuntu Lucid at that time) and on my little domestic server (customized Gentoo) I got readings that looked like lottery numbers, but not like actual temperatures. Fan speed would be meaningless anyway; the notebook's little fan runs just occasionally and it's barely audible, the server machine doesn't even have one, it's perfectly silent (apart from some quit ticking when the HDD restarts).

Quote:
Originally Posted by NEQTAN View Post
Well I stand enlightened. I had seen in a few tutorials that the V was not standardized, so you could see laptops that have various outputs.
That's why I wrote it's a "de facto" standard. It's not an actual standard, but most manufacturers have it like that now. The nominal voltage varies a little - some say 18V, some say 20V, some say 19V. But that's all within the usual tolerance, and with a generic 19V power supply you should be able to operate about 80% of the laptops around there.
Except DELL, because they do the same sh** as Apple: They have a little µC in their power supplies that communicates with the charging circuitry in the computer itself. That's why you won't be able to run a DELL notebook with a non-DELL power supply, even if the power ratings would match... *middle-finger at DELL*

Quote:
Originally Posted by NEQTAN View Post
From what I can find in the files associated to upower. The dict entries are the only ones that show any real configuration as to how upower gets it's readings. I may be wrong, but logic tells me that has to be it. I will keep working on it.
Last night, between going to bed and finally falling asleep, I thought a had a clever idea: Based on the idea of setting "hibernate" as the default action for the battery-low event and at the same time not allowing to hibernate, I thought, why not simply set the action to "Do nothing".
Unfortunately, "Do nothing" isn't available for this event. :-(
But trying to play with the settings, I had another strange effect: Just out of the blue, my mouse seemed to freeze. The system didn't react any more to moving or clicking the mouse! And I couldn't get it back to life again except by restarting the whole system. That's weird. Maybe Mint isn't as stable yet as it should be? Note that I'm running it with "Classical GNOME, no effects".

Quote:
Originally Posted by NEQTAN View Post
Ok I could write all night. Sorry for my long posts.
Never mind, you're welcome as far as I'm concerned.

[X] Doc CPU
 
Old 02-09-2012, 10:11 PM   #9
NEQTAN
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brainstorming and all of the above

Hey Doc,

I do think I was invited by a friend to use gmail at the time. That is funny.

Quote:
That wasn't really a quote of what I said. But anyway, no, at that point I was referring to GNOME's native panel indicator applet in Ubuntu lucid.
I know, I was merely using quote as an organization method. So I just used some keywords from that part in your post.
I have seen the applet your talking about in something I read. Trying to find answers.

Quote:
Some time ago I played around with lm-sensors, but it seems this package reads just bogus numbers on Intel Atom based systems. Both on my notebook (Ubuntu Lucid at that time) and on my little domestic server (customized Gentoo) I got readings that looked like lottery numbers, but not like actual temperatures. Fan speed would be meaningless anyway; the notebook's little fan runs just occasionally and it's barely audible, the server machine doesn't even have one, it's perfectly silent (apart from some quit ticking when the HDD restarts).
I did not find much help with lm-sensors either. Got more frustrated if anything. I ran lm-sensors, got some readings. Then followed up with fancontrol and get a message stating something about certain temp sensors were missing. Well how did lm-sensors get a reading if the correct sensors were not in place!

Must be nice to work in peace. Both notebooks I have been working on are HP and the fan runs loud and proud full time.

Quote:
That's why I wrote it's a "de facto" standard. It's not an actual standard, but most manufacturers have it like that now. The nominal voltage varies a little - some say 18V, some say 20V, some say 19V. But that's all within the usual tolerance, and with a generic 19V power supply you should be able to operate about 80% of the laptops around there.
Except DELL, because they do the same sh** as Apple: They have a little µC in their power supplies that communicates with the charging circuitry in the computer itself. That's why you won't be able to run a DELL notebook with a non-DELL power supply, even if the power ratings would match... *middle-finger at DELL*
I guess I should have googled de facto Im on the same page now. Thank you for the clarification.

Seems dell and apple are doing some sales security with those kinds of features. It is understandable from one standpoint but as a user I get annoyed by those kinds of road blocks. If in a pinch a need to utilize a part or adapter I like to be able to do so without having to match manufacturers and so forth.

Quote:
Last night, between going to bed and finally falling asleep, I thought a had a clever idea: Based on the idea of setting "hibernate" as the default action for the battery-low event and at the same time not allowing to hibernate, I thought, why not simply set the action to "Do nothing".
Unfortunately, "Do nothing" isn't available for this event. :-(
But trying to play with the settings, I had another strange effect: Just out of the blue, my mouse seemed to freeze. The system didn't react any more to moving or clicking the mouse! And I couldn't get it back to life again except by restarting the whole system. That's weird. Maybe Mint isn't as stable yet as it should be? Note that I'm running it with "Classical GNOME, no effects".
I have had the same problem with doing some modification tests. I ran some commands and altered a upower file. On reboot the mouse arrow was missing. Keyboard shortcuts were working. So with ctrl-alt-del I restarted the box and magically the mouse cursor was back.

I do believe it was a gnome problem. Not 100% sure. Since I could not replicate the problem I did not look to hard into it. I was and still am focused on this battery problem.

I have been thinking of writing an event handler on my own. That is to replace or upgrade the acpi event handler found in linux mint 12. Upgrade would be easier as replacing would require linkers, more work. I may go this route if need be. But modifying the existing event seems more logical for a test avenue. I believe if my memory serves me well the path to the event is etc/acpi/event/battery

Currently the event is engaged when ac is disconnected. Then it links to power.sh, the chain of problems begin from there in my opinion. That is being the start of upower's involvement in the process. So if I could stop the event process at the initial acpi battery event with a small script to check the battery and report to gnome. In attempt to do what upower is failing to do with less files required.

Here is a reference link to a similar train of thought:

http://askubuntu.com/questions/33062...-power-manager

Then look at these for some script idea examples:

http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/ACPI_a...battery_events

http://mindspill.net/computing/linux...ttery-warning/

I used search query "etc+acpi+events+battery". There are a few other links that looked appealing. But Im going to call it a night.

EOF

Let me know your thoughts.

Neq
 
Old 05-03-2012, 06:33 AM   #10
woshishui
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Manual repair, perhaps short period of time to solve your problem. I've also encountered similar problems, after repair, battery or often, therefore, change the batteries (buy here:deal-battery.com), then there is no similar problem occurs. If your battery is low, a long time, the battery quality is getting worse, relatively large impact on the computer, if you short-term support, repair to, to long-term consideration, to change the battery.
 
Old 05-14-2012, 08:44 AM   #11
Doc CPU
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Hi there,

Quote:
Originally Posted by woshishui View Post
Manual repair, perhaps short period of time to solve your problem. I've also encountered similar problems, after repair, battery or often, therefore, change the batteries (buy here:deal-battery.com), then there is no similar problem occurs. If your battery is low, a long time, the battery quality is getting worse, relatively large impact on the computer, if you short-term support, repair to, to long-term consideration, to change the battery.
looks like you completely missed the point. This thread isn't about a bad or worn battery - it's about software reading and reporting a wrong battery condition.

That hasn't anything to do with the actual charging cycles, as they are controlled by a hardware circuit. Software can only monitor what's going on, but not interfere.

[X] Doc CPU
 
  


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