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Old 11-09-2012, 12:02 PM   #16
johnsfine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TobiSGD View Post
Minicomputers, despite their name, where everything else than mini.
That is just a matter of perspective. When a "computer" filled a large room and a "minicomputer" was the size of a refrigerator, a minicomputer was certainly "mini".

The first "minicomputer" was the size of five full size refrigerators, but that was still pretty mini compared to ordinary computers of the time.
 
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Old 11-09-2012, 01:18 PM   #17
stf92
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And do you know the size of a mainframe nowadays? For I don't and would like to, if you do not mind, johnsfine.
 
Old 11-09-2012, 01:41 PM   #18
johnsfine
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I don't even know what "mainframe" means nowadays.

A "super computer" is now an interconnect system for tightly coupling thousands of AMD X86-64 CPUs (other brands of server class CPUs might be used, but AMD is common).

Such interconnect systems (by Cray and others) are configurable in size/performance from not much above an ordinary server up to the most powerful super computers in the world.

Before such systems, there was a gap in the performance range between a server class machine and a super computer. That gap was filled by "mainframe" computers that had fundamentally different designs from server class machines.

Probably old software creates some demand for "mainframe" computers that are still something other than a large number server class microcomputers tied together. But I don't pay attention to that market.

But there is no gap in the performance range of multi-CPU systems. From four physical CPUs (of multiple cores each) up to thousands, there is no point at which a fundamentally different approach (as big as the old difference between mini computer and mainframe) is needed. There is a big price gap in server hardware between a powerful server with two physical CPUs and a slightly more powerful, but far more expensive, server with four physical CPUs. Other than that, the range from desktop to super computer is largely free of gaps.

The economies of scale in production of enormous numbers of micro processors has overwhelmed any of the reasons that an architecture designed for the desktop computer market might not be optimal for mainframe or super computer use.
 
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Old 11-09-2012, 01:56 PM   #19
stf92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnsfine View Post
The economies of scale in production of enormous numbers of micro processors has overwhelmed any of the reasons that an architecture designed for the desktop computer market might not be optimal for mainframe or super computer use.
That is understandable but, for me, disappointing. A thing designed from scratch has to be better than those things.
 
Old 11-10-2012, 02:15 AM   #20
cascade9
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Originally Posted by stf92 View Post
That was very kind of you. One of the main considerations for choosing to buy the machine with the G620 (motherboard Gigabyte H61) when I already had one with motherboard P4i65G (Celeron D) was the fact that while this admits only DDR, the former admits DDR3, and in this way I have assured RAM availability in the market for a good many years in case I want to extend my memory.

But anyways I wanted to make sure I wasn't being fooled by the seller, who happened to offer me the Gigabyte H61 machine when he saw my P4i65G one.
'Fooled', not really. 'Selling you bottom end stuff and making out its good'? Probably. 'Saw you have an old computer and wanted to sell you something newer'? Certainly.

H61 is limited to 16GB RAM and most of them have only 2 memory slots (the 'better' intel chipsets go to 32GB and have 4 memory slots). H61 also only have 4 x SATA-II ports, the better intel chipsets ahve 4 x SATA-II posts and 2 x SATA-III ports. Some of teh H61 chipset boards also only have a VGA port, not DVI/HDMI.

I dont know what prices in Buenos Aires are like, and I'm not sure what you use your computer for (apart from audio ).

Depending on your use, prices and what you might like in the future, a 'better' intel chipset (e.g. Z68 or Z77) LGA 1155 motherboard, or an AMD AM3+ setup, or maybe even an AMD FM2 setup might be more usable now and have more future upgradability.
 
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Old 11-10-2012, 03:44 AM   #21
stf92
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Originally Posted by cascade9 View Post
'Fooled', not really. 'Selling you bottom end stuff and making out its good'? Probably. 'Saw you have an old computer and wanted to sell you something newer'? Certainly.
Selling me bottom end stuff: true, because I have no reason to disbelieve you, given your remarks further above. But considering I was about to by an excelent machine a year ago and left the opportunity go away out of indecision and then the government change the rules and now that machine would be impossible to build except at astronomical prices (very few material entering the country and all low end), when the seller showed me that by only 1750 pesos I could have something far above the P4i65G, I thought I was at Eden. I now recognize however I could have acted with more cold blood, because after very little research I gave him half the quantity asked.

The P4i65G has its story too. My original intention was to get more RAM for my M758LT Pcchips motherboard. Although knowing I had an old and infamous machine, I considered it enough to have 1MB of RAM installed (I only have 256 on that machine). But that RAM is SIMM SDRAM, very difficult to get here today. Telling a friend of mine about my purpose, to get that memory and my frustration at not getting it, he offered to give me the P4i65G as a solution to the RAM problem (but this has provision for DDR only, an the amount installed is 512MB). This friend owing me some money, I considered, in front of this gift, for such it was, a matter of honor to cancel the debt (meaning he no longer owes me). So I got the P4i65G with 512MB DDR and he kept the 2000 pesos. A day after this, someone who builds computers gets in contact with me, telling me he can get the SIMM SDRAM. Too late. I had already renounce the 2000 and had a more modern machine. Here, had it not been by an accident, I would never have known the famous seller and his G620. For when going to inject the video signal into the CRT monitor (my dearest IT <<<<posession>>>>>), I do not notice there are two identical DB connectors on the P4i65G rear, and use the only I see. No video (black screen), I go to the store whose employee or owner is the seller, the seller shows me the second connector, problem solved and there I am before a new alternative and almost 2000 more money which I hope not to waste like the first quantity.

Quote:

I dont know what prices in Buenos Aires are like, and I'm not sure what you use your computer for (apart from audio ).
The change today 11/10 is 1 u$s = 4.79 pesos. This must be adjusted using a table of purchase power parity, giving a not very accurate result. And then there are the customs, whose taxes I do not know. I've always used computers to program. Program anything. A development system for some embedded microcontroller, where I personally designed the PC <--> development system interface too, a program to solve chess problems (mate in two, in three, ...) where no arcane algorithm is needed, a program to enter a musical score into the computer and making a midi instrument controlled by the computer play it, the thing was to program, not so much the application itself.

But that was DOS or, assembler. And now I'm stuck at Linux, not knowing when I shall end learning bash scripting. But there are so many things written as bash scripts, beginning by the boot scripts, that I feel obliged to understand them. Everything is done with scripts! It's a long while since I seem to have said good bye to programming. And therefor so much multimedia, and the hardware resources to be able to cope with it that make me waste money uselessly. Surely to listen to good music in the fantastic variety that internet puts it in my hands is a good thing, but the true fun is in the exercising of the intellect, the proposing oneself problems, the trying to solve them and, with programming, imagination is the limit.


Quote:
Depending on your use, prices and what you might like in the future, a 'better' intel chipset (e.g. Z68 or Z77) LGA 1155 motherboard, or an AMD AM3+ setup, or maybe even an AMD FM2 setup might be more usable now and have more future upgradability.
Well, its always good to have data at hand, and from reliable sources. Thank you very much.
 
Old 11-10-2012, 04:18 AM   #22
cascade9
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2000 pesos for a P4i65G/Celeron D 315/512MB system? Ouch.

I was so shocked at what you had written above, I actually did a bit of looking at computer shops in Buenos Aires. I feel sorry for Argentine computer buyers, I was seeing prices about 75-100% higher than what I pay here.

Pity you arent nearer to where I am, I've got a lot of machines of similar level I would sell you for 1/20th of what you paid for the P4i65G (2 x celeron 2Ghz, 1 x P4 2.53Ghz, 2 x athlon XP, 1 x celeron D (DDR2), 1 x pentium D, 1 x athlon 64 3000+, and some athlon X2s. That is just the stuff I know is working.....). With the way things are going, I'd probably give you a system about as fast as the P4i65G for nothing. I've got so many old machines here I'm on the point of installing antix to a few of them and trying to sell them for $20-25. Hmm, I might even find out how much it would cost to send stuff to south america and what the customs laws are like.

BTW, is the motherboard Gigabyte GA-H61M-S1 OEM?
 
Old 11-10-2012, 05:56 AM   #23
stf92
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2000 pesos for a P4i65G/Celeron D 315/512MB system? Ouch.
Plus HDD Western Digital WD800 (80GB) + LG CD-ROM RW burner in bad mechanical state + power source + cabinet.

In August 2 I ordered amazon.com a book and they charge me 18.64 for the shipment and handling (only that I did not receive the book yet). This does not include customs taxes here. Your offering is thanked in due form.
Quote:
BTW, is the motherboard Gigabyte GA-H61M-S1 OEM?
I'll know the week coming. Regards.

Last edited by stf92; 11-10-2012 at 06:06 AM.
 
  


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