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Old 10-31-2008, 03:37 AM   #16
Ole Juul
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Thanks for the hints Electro. I'm asuming that the noapic and noacpi or apci=off or pci=nomsi go in /boot/grub/less menu.lst but I don't know the exact syntax. I'll google it to learn.

Yes, Biostar isn't something that I would buy on purpose. This was one of those computers that you buy in a store with MS-OS installed - bad choice. (Kind of funny actually )

The USB current limit is an interesting point and I'll try a hub just to see. Note however that there has been an inability for most Linux distributions to install on this computer - even with USB devices unplugged. Nevertheless, if aus9 doesn't find the problem through the info that I just posted, then I'm putting my money on the suspect flash drive. I'll pull it and see.
 
Old 10-31-2008, 05:21 AM   #17
aus9
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firstly Electro's tips are easy to try so try them please

if you are still in live mode (not yet hard drive installed) when you get to menu there is an option to put in some stuff...that is what Electro is referring to

if you have installed already to hard drive...when grub starts up...if its a graphical grub press the Escape key to get to text mode...press E to Edit the menu item highlighted ....arrow down to kernel line...press E to Edit line...takes you to end of the kernel line and type in various extra settings.

2) That you can see the products with mint means we have kernel drivers ...good.

3) now we need to talk to the device and this gives 2 main options.

Let us know if you can do a hard drive install as its easier to talk about from there.

Backup your old data

I assume you know how to re-install MS?

I assume you know mint has a graphical partition tool if ms can not handle what it sees if you decide to ditch it etc

so

a) either the kodak is not recognised by your linux kernel (now eliminated but was prob before)
b) as Electro says (I did not know that) there is not enough juice to handle all of your devices
c) you lack the software to data share to the Kodak
d) there is a gremlin in the udev daemon...and kodak starts but is lost due to a conflict in udev rules (or lack thereof)

4) Lets look at data sharing first

according to HCL your device is known already
http://www.linuxquestions.org/hcl/sh...t/4125/cat/all

not a lot of info there but its a start.

google not a lot of help so far either....hmmm

5) card reader is an option...can you specify the type of memory card you are using pleasing ie
brand size eg sandisk SD 512 megs as it may affect your current card reader

4b) back to data sharing

altho your device is a camera I found a bit on data sharing usb devices by creating a network but I am sure you will not too excited by this technuque

http://zsrep.sourceforge.net/docs/deb_etch_cradle_conf/

Of course I have a camera and can read it directly thru a cable or putting the memory card into a simple usb reader so I can not help you any further in 4b)

6) which leads us to (6)...and assumes you may decide to do a hard drive install. Really its going to be a hassle re-doing this in live mode because altho you can save settings and file to a usb/floppy etc it is not convenient as using ms

Assumptions

a) Electro could be correct on power juice so you only try this after borrowing a ps/2 mouse from a freind
b) so after a fails......a bit rude to forecast that but I am writing this to prepare your mind heh heh
you do a hard drive install of mint
you write a udev rule for your mouse ....which is now not a power issue
you connect kodak and get UUID for it ...not entirely sure what you mean by Konqueror showing nothing when kdeinfo shows devices.
----and you write an udev rule for the kodak

Goal

Hal to show kodak in Konqueror new window when you plug it in
 
Old 10-31-2008, 05:31 AM   #18
aus9
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next is a pdf link on explaining dynamic device management with udev, hal and d-bus...which is the new way of doing things
http://www.linux-magazine.com/w3/iss..._in%20Udev.pdf

more on udev
http://linuxvm.org/present/WAVV/udev.pdf

writing howto (new udev rule)
http://www.reactivated.net/writing_udev_rules.html
 
Old 10-31-2008, 05:58 AM   #19
aus9
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konqueror revisited

Maybe knoq is missing the one or more plugins?

try
Code:
apt-get install kamera metacam
kamera
This is a digital camera io_slave for KDE which uses gphoto2 and libgpio to allow access to your camera's pictures with the URL camera:/

metacam
MetaCam also supports vendor-specific extensions from Nikon, Olympus, Canon and Casio.

Since you say Konq is blank I am now thinking it just something simple like no plugin....I like simple so
Try Electro's suggestions first
Next install the plugin/software to try and get konqueror to play ball

if that fails then read the other stuff and decide if you want to waste some time with no guarantee it will work.

I repeat...that kdeinfo can see your camera so we are further into success than ever before

good luck
 
Old 11-01-2008, 02:54 AM   #20
Ole Juul
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Yes, my installation of Mint is to a hard drive and there won't be
any important data just yet. Don't worry about the MS-XP, it's safe
on its own HD. I installed a new drive just for Linux.

On a human interest note: I'm sure I can figure it out, but you assume
incorrectly that I know how to install MS. (VBG) Actually, I have never
used MS past DOS which I use daily as my OS of choice. I now use Linux
for my more modern needs and although I've played with it since Slackware
first came out on BBSs, it is just in the last couple of years that I started
using it for more than just browsing. I am now getting a bit of confidence
- thanks to people like you.

Back on topic: The concept of USB current draw referred to by Electro
seems to pan out. I disconnected the internal flash reader, the external
(Olympus) flash reader, and the scanner. I also changed the mouse to ps2.
This produced some interesting results:

I got the popup menu recognizing the addition of a device, and Konq now
gets an entry. If I reconnect two or three devices, there's a problem
again. The USB mouse by itself, makes no difference one way or the other.
Perhaps it is true that the electrical characteristics of a cheap MB is,
in fact, the main source of all of this. I have no idea if there is a gremlin
in the udev daemon.

Unfortunately, we still don't have a functional camera. I will post the
information which I have and you can see if there is something which you
can suggest. Since that part of it is perhaps not a hardware problem,
I should maybe repost that as a seperate problem in another thread. Let
me know what you think.

I did my homework. Electro's suggestions were to try noacpi or apci=off,
and if that didn't work then try pci=nomsi. I did that and there was no
change in the results. One note though, I edited the kernel line adding
the above (one at a time), but I am not 100% sure the config got saved.
It was not there on the next boot. Is that correct?

Here is the results after removing USB devices which are the same with
any of the above boot options: When the camera is turned on there is an
(aprx) 18 second delay and then a device window opens. About 10 seconds
later the camera icon shows up on the desktop. In the window, I chose "Open
In New Window". The response is "initializing camera" followed by "stalled".

In Konq there is a camera icon. Click on it and it shows 2 directories
(I think) and 2 txt files. Clicking on any of those gives the response
"Could not read file Could not lock the device". It would seem that
therein lies the clue. Only problem is I don't get it. (grin)

Regarding your other suggestions:

1- I installed kamera and metacam and checked for any other plugins
which could be relevant.

2- The camera uses an SD card and the one we were using is 4GB.

3- It is instructive to note that the Olympus camera works like a charm
on this system now that I disconnected some USB devices, so that test was
useful. The fact that the Kodak is recognized as a device but the files
can not be read would perhaps hint that Kodak is not playing ball here.
3a- The Kodak is quickly recognized on my very reliable Kubuntu system
but the files are not recognized. Hmm ...

Misc:
-- Thanks for the info on udev. I did not know about the change in
systems. I guess I need to do some studying.

-- Once I get the camera going (perhaps if), then I can reintroduce other
devices, such as the card reader, and deal with the problems as they show up.

--- Let me know if you wish to bow out here since it may not be a
hardware problem any more. (I could repost on a software forum)
 
Old 11-01-2008, 08:07 AM   #21
aus9
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ok now we know its the lack of juice going to the usb ports we have a couple of options

A) I gather the memory card to one camera can not be swapped to the other olympus?
b) Consider buying a pci card to usb to bypass the motherboard design and there is a site you can go to check your wattage for your power supply versus mb, cpu ram and devices....can't remember it at this stage altho I linked to it years ago....but me thinks your psu will have enough juice to run a pci card to usb slot.

Lets revisit the issues

keep posting here please...does not matter we have sidetracked its your questions

kodak and other usb devices...my theory is this

1) at some stage we lacked a good kernel (inbuild drivers or modules supplying drivers) to see the hardware
2) then we saw the hardware
3) then the hardware let us down (not enough juice) so I think pci card can bypass that issue
4) and you could see some hardware and talk to it....except kodak which is new main issue
5) but these devices need a plugin or data translator to extract the info...I call it a plugin but its not the same as the driver...its the communications software like Kamera but not sure what it will be

Now back to kernel parameters

these can be done one time...booting now and editting the kernel line....OR
have it on all the time by using root powers to edit your
/boot/grub/menu.lst at the kernel line

eg my kernel line is (one line)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.27-3.slh.2-sidux-686 root=UUID=6ad3c8cb-2adc-46bc-832c-9ee707137a79 ro quiet vga=791

add each parameter that you need after the vga=791 bit...but relevant to your line ok?

(XX) but you say you tried it and no change so ...there is not much point saving something that does not work
but...there a heap of kernel parameters....also called cheatcodes...and maybe there is a combination that will work?

(XY) You may wish to pm the member who submitted the HCL entry and see if they can help?

Personally I think you are very close to full success....as you know the main reason for the usb device not working so can now bypass it.
 
Old 11-01-2008, 08:20 AM   #22
aus9
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ignore the rebuilding warning this online calc works
http://www.journeysystems.com/?power_supply_calculator

or

http://www.silentmods.com/modding/PS...alculator.html

Naturally you can get excited by too much info but if your psu is bigger than the estimate with usb devices connected you should be ok?
 
Old 11-01-2008, 06:03 PM   #23
aus9
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kodak communications issue part 2

OK the term I was looking for was io-slave.

since Kodak opens for you but does not display I need more info

is the box completely blank or are there folders that you click into?

2) I appreciate you have looked at others but it appears gphoto and its library are the main players to talk to cameras and something different for you to try is

gphotofs

GPhotoFS is a filesystem client based on libgphoto2 that exposes supported cameras as filesystems; while some cameras implement the USB Mass Storage class and already appear as filesystems (making this program redundant), many use the Picture Transfer Protocol (PTP) or some other custom protocol. But as long as the camera is supported by libgphoto2, it can be mounted as a filesystem using this program.
 
Old 11-01-2008, 06:11 PM   #24
aus9
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just found this site
http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Kodak-Digitalcam-HOWTO/index.html



EDIT
which links to this
http://ods.sourceforge.net/

Last edited by aus9; 11-01-2008 at 06:13 PM.
 
Old 11-01-2008, 06:16 PM   #25
aus9
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ok and ignoring the date and its the wrong Kodak some info in HCL shows it can be done
http://www.linuxquestions.org/hcl/sh...t/2198/cat/256
 
Old 11-01-2008, 06:36 PM   #26
aus9
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ok the file to give your c613 communication support appears to be

libgphoto2 2.4.0

http://sourceforge.net/project/shown...ease_id=528571

look under PTP2 driver
Kodak EasyShare C433, C613, etc
 
Old 11-01-2008, 08:54 PM   #27
Ole Juul
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There is probably not a power issue although it could look like it.
I believe that is the case because this computer allows numerous USB
devices to run when loaded with MS-XP and it will also run several USB
devices when loaded with Mint. There is one problem device, however,
and that is the internal flash card reader. I think that there is another
problem such as a chipset gremlin or faulty BIOS. Remember that this
computer does not play ball with live Linux CDs and installers - the
notable exception being Mint.

Just to avoid confusion for now, the only USB devices in use are the ones
which are actually being tested, and only when needed.

Here is a lot of information from my testing, so it is a little difficult
to organize it clearly, but I'll try. The items in question are:

a/camera - Kodak EasyShare C613
b/4GB card - SD
c/2GB card - SD
d/internal card reader - Desknote UCR-61S2B
e/computer - MB Biostar K8VGA-M ; AMD Semperon 3300+ ; Award BIOS

In camera:
1/ both 2GB and 4GB chips work fine
2/ 2GB chip was inserted as it came new in package and worked
3/ I'm not sure what the original state of the 4GB chip was, but
the camera insisted on doing a format when it was inserted
4/ 4GB chip is the one which has been used in all tests until now,
and in its camera formatted state.


In MS-XP:
1/ camera is recognized with either 2GB or 4GB chips
2/ card reader reads 2GB chip but not 4GB chip
2a/ XP reports 4GB chip in reader as unformatted
3/ test pics were added to 2GB chip while in card reader
4/ XP does not automatically recognize when cards plugged into reader

In Mint:
1/ all devices show in kinfo/usb except card inserted in reader
1a/ cards not readable in reader
1b/ just to see, I tried a USB pen drive and it works properly
2/ camera recognized very slowly
2a/ camera not recognized when internal reader is plugged in
3/ camera not readable with 4GB disk (camera formatted)
3a/ camera readable with 2GB disk!!! (factory formatted)

Observations:
1/ The computer appears to have a hardware problem
2/ XP has a problem with the card reader
3/ Mint is confused by USB devices on this particular computer
4/ Both XP and Mint show difficulties regarding Kodak formatted chip
5/ A functional Kubuntu computer still can't read the camera, leading
me to believe that kamera or metacam as mentioned in previous posts,
is needed to get the camera working.

Conclusions:
The computer (running Mint Linux) can now work with the camera using
a 2GB chip so that is good enough for now. Perhaps reformatting the 4GB
chip can make it useful as well but it is not needed. The internal card
reader is not a necessity so I will leave it disconnected.

I suspect that the only real fix for what I see as a hardware problem
is to replace the MB/CPU. We can't afford the $200+ at the moment, but
it will need to be done at some point anyway.

The bottom line is that the user can now leave MS-XP and be equally
functional and twice as happy.

To do:
Check out applicable format choices for SD cards and perhaps get
a functional external SD card reader so as to avoid the Kodak in-camera
format. Also, thank aus9 for inspiring me to go on with this annoying
problem and helping get a little more educated about Linux.
 
Old 11-01-2008, 11:19 PM   #28
Ole Juul
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I was thinking before that the main reason for the USB devices not working is that they cannot be recognized and/or resolved. Remember that lsusb did not work at all. That is no longer the case.

After unplugging the internal flash reader I have now rechecked the USB devices with the very interesting result that everything shows up in lsusb when that is not there. I had moved to using the very excellent kinfo which seems to work under all circumstances. Now I went back to try lsusb and it too works and no longer hangs - as long as the reader is not connected. An added USB mouse is instantly recognized and both that and the ps2 device work, which is what I would expect. I did not do any further testing than run lsusb, but it showed me five (5!) devices, including the camera, when I plugged them all in. It appears that I was correct in villifying the flash reader. The fact that MS-XP does not automatically detect a card plugged into the reader is further evidence.

At some point I will try some live Linux distros again just to see if that is what was hanging the installs. However, the Linux Mint install will stay because it was an instant hit with the user.
 
Old 11-02-2008, 12:54 AM   #29
aus9
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well it is hard to argue with you as you have done lots I see. My only suggestion is ....as previously stated....for linux to see a device it needs a driver.

Mint is nice but may not use the most recent kernels?
http://linuxmint.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=12159

sidux of course tends to use the latest...heh heh.
 
Old 11-02-2008, 02:28 AM   #30
Ole Juul
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Well, I'll be looking for drivers soon enough because now, I'm getting into a fight with a printer.. hehe .. but I expect that to be an easy one. That ol' HP scanner might be worth a round or two as well.

My biggest lesson this time around is never to buy a computer from a store and just build my own like I've always done (ymmv)... that way I have someone to blame. (vbg)

Thanks again for your help... and I'll give that sidux a try too.
 
  


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