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Old 10-23-2008, 11:56 PM   #1
Ole Juul
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USB and VIA VT8237


I need to know if I should give up on installing Linux on this computer or spend money on a new MB/CPU. I do not have the expertise to discern if there is a Linux bug or a hardware flaw (scam?). The computer was purchased new with MS-XP and has functioned as well as expected. The object is to run Linux instead.

I am unable to make a satisfactory installation on this Biostar K8VGA-M board. Various live distributions have been unsucessful but I was recently able to install Ubuntu 8.04.1 via the Debian installer, although with somewhat buggy results. There seem to be several problems (some of which may be solvable) but the main one is USB. Installing with all USB devices unplugged makes no difference and, in fact, still results in the installer asking for a (non present) Bluetooth.

There is a USB mouse which works, but any other USB devices are not recognized. Several installation attempts with different distributions also hung on USB recognition. I believe that there is either a bug in the chipset which makes it incompatible with Linux, or there is a kernel bug which shows up here. How can I tell?

Hardware info:
- K8VGA-M board with Athelon CPU and 2GB Ram. South bridge: VIA VT8237

Software info:
- uname -a: 2.6.24-21 generic
- lspci: USB controller: VIA TechInc. VT82xxxxx UHCI USB 1.1 Controller (rev81)
And more info than I can easily transcribe
- lsusb: hangs with no response
- sudo dmsg: command not found

The lspci output is surprising because the manual with the MB clearly states that it supports USB 2.0. That is what makes me think that the board has a flawed design but I do not have the expertise to determine this. If that is the case, I will stop wasting my time and get a new MB sometime.

Any info or suggestions gratefully accepted.
 
Old 10-24-2008, 07:08 PM   #2
aus9
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hi

there could be a number of reasons first I share your chipset but diff m/board

Code:
lspci
00:00.0 Host bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT8385 [K8T800 AGP] Host Bridge (rev 01)
00:01.0 PCI bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT8237 PCI bridge [K8T800/K8T890 South]
00:0c.0 Multimedia audio controller: Creative Labs SB Live! EMU10k1 (rev 0a)
00:0c.1 Input device controller: Creative Labs SB Live! Game Port (rev 0a)
00:0f.0 IDE interface: VIA Technologies, Inc. VIA VT6420 SATA RAID Controller (rev 80)
00:0f.1 IDE interface: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82C586A/B/VT82C686/A/B/VT823x/A/C PIPC Bus Master IDE (rev 06)
00:10.0 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82xxxxx UHCI USB 1.1 Controller (rev 81)
00:10.1 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82xxxxx UHCI USB 1.1 Controller (rev 81)
00:10.2 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82xxxxx UHCI USB 1.1 Controller (rev 81)
00:10.3 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82xxxxx UHCI USB 1.1 Controller (rev 81)
00:10.4 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. USB 2.0 (rev 86)
00:11.0 ISA bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT8237 ISA bridge [KT600/K8T800/K8T890 South]
00:13.0 Ethernet controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL-8169 Gigabit Ethernet (rev 10)
00:18.0 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] HyperTransport Technology Configuration
00:18.1 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] Address Map
00:18.2 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] DRAM Controller
00:18.3 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] Miscellaneous Control
01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation NV34 [GeForce FX 5200] (rev a1)
1) Lets look at your bios first please.....can you check it8705 which IMHO is the chipset that provides usb ports

In my award bios ...integrated peripherals...there is usb1 and usb2 settings that need to be enabled pls

2) That you have had trouble with other distros could be right or could be because the bios is not quite right so only you can tell if the bios setting was wrong.

Personally I think you have done the right thing by trying mainly live cds.

try sidux if you like...its a live cd/dvd or can be an install if you like it?
 
Old 10-24-2008, 07:10 PM   #3
aus9
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try

Code:
sudo cat /var/log/dmesg | less
 
Old 10-25-2008, 12:55 AM   #4
Ole Juul
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Thanks for the suggestions aus9.

Yes, checking the BIOS is a good idea. Mine seems to read slightly
differently. On closer inspection it is called "Phoenix-Award BIOS".
I had looked before but on your suggestion I now went through it
with a fine tooth comb. Under "Integrated Periferals" it lists:
VIA OnChip IDE Device ->
VIA OnChip PCI Device ->
SuperIO Device ->

The pertinent listings and settings in PCI Device are:
OnChip USB Controller [All Enabled]
OnChip EHCI Contoller [Enabled]
USB Emulation [ON]

There is no USB1/USB2 reference in the BIOS.
Regarding the 8705, I didn't understand your reference.
My knowledge here is quite skimpy and I had thought, probably
wrongly, that the VT8237 was the controller. A "little" Googling
is a dangerous thing!

Certainly, something is very wrong - especially considering
that lsusb hangs.

Regarding the dmesg log: thanks, I found it now and can
read it. There are a lot of references to USB but I don't
really understand, and none of them indicate obvious fails.
 
Old 10-25-2008, 04:34 AM   #5
aus9
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Code:
lsmod | grep usb* (output culled for relevance)
usbcore               142576  3 ehci_hcd,uhci_hcd
you can see ehci and uhci are my usb modules that then enable usbcore, but yours may differ as there is also an usb module
ohci

If you have kernel documentations installed you can see ehci is usb2 but uhci or ohci is acceptable for usb1


now we can see if you have the modules how they affect devices
http://www.linux.it/~rubini/docs/usb/usb.html

try it and post your results if different...
 
Old 10-26-2008, 02:01 AM   #6
Ole Juul
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That's a lot to digest at once.
Here is my lsmod usb* output:
Code:
cpufreq_userspace       5284  0
usb_storage            73735  1
libusual               19108  1 usb_storage
usbhid                 31872  0
hid                    38784  1 usbhid
ac97_bus                3072  1 snd_ac97_codec
usbcore               146028  7 usb_storage,libusual,usbhid,ehci_hcd,uhci_hcd
scsi_mod              151436  5 usb_storage,sd_mod,sg,sr_mod,libata
fuse                   50708  5
but I don't see any ohci.
 
Old 10-26-2008, 06:44 PM   #7
aus9
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no ....ohci is an alternative module nothing to worry about...I was just forewarning you that you will have ehci and one of 2 others.

ok modules look fine.

I think we need to see your lspci output please....as according to your modules you have ehci (usb2) so lets take a fresh look at that.
thats small so can be posted here.

2) I know you stated you have a usb mouse but can you now list your usb devices

3) your moudules show usbhid which stands for (AFAIK) human interface devices

4) I think we may also need to see every bit of your log for usb stuff....if you already have a online storage link to it
i use http://www.ripway.com/default.aspx otherwise try this link which is good for 72 hours pls
http://paste.debian.net/

5) another nice live product is linuxmint which seems to be usb friendly for you to consider
 
Old 10-27-2008, 03:00 AM   #8
Ole Juul
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Thanks. I understand about the ohci now.

1. lspci:
[CODE]00:00.0 Host bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. K8M800 Host Bridge
00:00.1 Host bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. K8M800 Host Bridge
00:00.2 Host bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. K8M800 Host Bridge
00:00.3 Host bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. K8M800 Host Bridge
00:00.4 Host bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. K8M800 Host Bridge
00:00.7 Host bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. K8M800 Host Bridge
00:01.0 PCI bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT8237 PCI bridge [K8T800/K8T890 South]
00:0f.0 IDE interface: VIA Technologies, Inc. VIA VT6420 SATA RAID Controller (rev 80)
00:0f.1 IDE interface: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82C586A/B/VT82C686/A/B/VT823x/A/C PIPC Bus Master IDE (rev 06)
00:10.0 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82xxxxx UHCI USB 1.1 Controller (rev 81)
00:10.1 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82xxxxx UHCI USB 1.1 Controller (rev 81)
00:10.2 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82xxxxx UHCI USB 1.1 Controller (rev 81)
00:10.3 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82xxxxx UHCI USB 1.1 Controller (rev 81)
00:10.4 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. USB 2.0 (rev 86)
00:11.0 ISA bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT8237 ISA bridge [KT600/K8T800/K8T890 South]
00:11.5 Multimedia audio controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT8233/A/8235/8237 AC97 Audio Controller (rev 60)
00:12.0 Ethernet controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT6102 [Rhine-II] (rev 78)
00:18.0 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] HyperTransport Technology Configuration
00:18.1 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] Address Map
00:18.2 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] DRAM Controller
00:18.3 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] Miscellaneous Control
01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. S3 Unichrome Pro VGA Adapter (rev 01)

2. usb devices:
- mouse
- built in card reader
- external card reader for Olympus
- HP scanner

I forgot the internal reader before and was not aware that
it was usb. The computer is constantly in use so I didn't
recheck that it actually is a usb device but will check if needed.
Also the HP scanner is OK in XT but too old for Linux drivers.
On several installation attempts, I unplugged all USB devices
except the mouse and the internal reader.

3. I don't know of any "usb human interface" devices other than
the mouse.

4. I posted the dmesg file as dmsg.oj.txt at http://paste.debian.net/20083
That was the easiest for now as my evening is a little tight. I'll
check out the ripway.com link too as it looks very useful. BTW, your
suggestion of looking at sidux is a good one. I tried it and will
give it a closer look. On the computer in question here though, it
was pretty much a given that it be Kubuntu - but we'll see how it goes.
I will also check out linuxmint because you suggested it. In the
long run the computer should, however, be able to run anything.

Cheers,
Ole
 
Old 10-28-2008, 09:39 PM   #9
Ole Juul
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I ran a live disk of sidus and it booted the first time (yayy!) but I was unable to repeat the experience. Now it hangs on hardware discovery like everything else has done.

I am still working on getting a copy is linuxmint. My own computer runs Kubuntu (and any version tried to date) just fine and mint looks like something I would use. With the KDE interface the user of the computer in question here would probably be fine with it too. But alas, so far my download has stalled three times and I don't see any torrent seeders. Ahh, the perils of living in the mountains with only wireless service.

The computer with the questionable hardware is still running MS-XP and will continue to do so until a satisfactory (non broken) install of Linux can be achieved and USB devices are recognized. That may not happen without a MB/CPU switch which is certainly desirable but not affordable for a few months. Whatever happens, in the end there will be one more person in the world who switched to Linux.
 
Old 10-29-2008, 06:31 AM   #10
aus9
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your lspci shows usb2 00:10.4 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. USB 2.0 (rev 86)

your lsmod shows usbcore has usb 1 and usb2 modules....so in theory you should have usb2 enabled now the drivers

2) hp scanner check out
http://www.openprinting.org/driver_list.cgi

and

http://hplipopensource.com/hplip-web...ces/index.html

3) you appear to be running apparmor...have you considered disabling it....check /etc/init.d/ find apparmor and you root powers to un-execute?

4)
usb 3-2: new full speed USB device using uhci_hcd and address 2 appears to conflict with earlier
usb 1-1: new full speed USB device using uhci_hcd and address 2

looks not good by later message
usb 1-1: USB disconnect, address 2

but it may have moved to
usb 2-1: new low speed USB device using uhci_hcd and address 3

5) as you claim only one usb device is working...the mouse...maybe we need to look for a conflict in interrupts so try

Code:
cat /proc/interrupts
           CPU0
  0:        369   IO-APIC-edge      timer
  1:       1972   IO-APIC-edge      i8042
  3:          2   IO-APIC-edge
  4:          2   IO-APIC-edge
  6:          5   IO-APIC-edge      floppy
  7:          0   IO-APIC-edge      parport0
  8:          2   IO-APIC-edge      rtc0
  9:          0   IO-APIC-fasteoi   acpi
 12:     136250   IO-APIC-edge      i8042
 14:      18890   IO-APIC-edge      pata_via
 15:          0   IO-APIC-edge      pata_via
 16:     131649   IO-APIC-fasteoi   EMU10K1, nvidia
 18:       8468   IO-APIC-fasteoi   eth0
 20:      14944   IO-APIC-fasteoi   sata_via
 21:          0   IO-APIC-fasteoi   uhci_hcd:usb1, uhci_hcd:usb2, ehci_hcd:usb3, uhci_hcd:usb4, uhci_hcd:usb5
NMI:          0   Non-maskable interrupts
LOC:     369237   Local timer interrupts
RES:          0   Rescheduling interrupts
CAL:          0   function call interrupts
TLB:          0   TLB shootdowns
TRM:          0   Thermal event interrupts
SPU:          0   Spurious interrupts
ERR:          0
MIS:          0
 
Old 10-29-2008, 08:11 PM   #11
Ole Juul
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- I disabled apparmor, but with no apparent effect.

- here is the output of /proc/interrupts
Code:
           CPU0
  0:        400   IO-APIC-edge      timer
  1:        349   IO-APIC-edge      i8042
  4:          2   IO-APIC-edge
  6:          5   IO-APIC-edge      floppy
  7:          0   IO-APIC-edge      parport0
  8:          3   IO-APIC-edge      rtc
  9:          0   IO-APIC-fasteoi   acpi
 14:       7743   IO-APIC-edge      libata
 15:          0   IO-APIC-edge      libata
 16:       5750   IO-APIC-fasteoi   uhci_hcd:usb1, uhci_hcd:usb2, uhci_hcd:usb3, uhci_hcd:usb4, ehci_hcd:usb5
 17:      10853   IO-APIC-fasteoi   sata_via
 18:        256   IO-APIC-fasteoi   eth0
 19:       1675   IO-APIC-fasteoi   VIA8237
NMI:          0   Non-maskable interrupts
LOC:      33572   Local timer interrupts
RES:          0   Rescheduling interrupts
CAL:          0   function call interrupts
TLB:          0   TLB shootdowns
TRM:          0   Thermal event interrupts
SPU:          0   Spurious interrupts
ERR:          0
MIS:          0
- Yes, the only working USB device is the mouse. The scanner is probably too old to expect support but a new one can be gotten at some point as XP will remain on its own drive and can be fired up for special occasions like scanning. Perhaps indeed there is some way to get it to work, but I will look into that later.

The problem (and idicative) device is USB recognition of a camera. I have tried two different cameras and there is no indication that the computer knows they are there. Both cameras work in XP on the same computer and both are recognized in Kubuntu on another.

Ubuntu is still there on it's own HD but I just now tried Mint Linux 5 KDE in live mode and all results are the same. Neither camera is acknowledged and lsusb hangs. One positive note though: Mint did not hang at the hardware recognition stage like other distributions do.

PS: I appreciate all the work you are doing here.
 
Old 10-30-2008, 07:57 AM   #12
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thanks but I have not solved your problem.

1) our boards are very similar with zero errors so I would like you to plug in usb camera and post last few lines of /var/log/syslog even if nothing is detected please.

2) mint kde has kinfocenter which IMHO shows better info to lsusb
Or any distro with kde will do.

3) can you name make models of camera please....we can then research HCL and

4) do you have a card usb reader...not sure what the true name is called but I pull out memory and insert into usb device and then plug usb card reader into usb port. Have you tried that?

they cost $10-30 ...I got mine free in buying a magazine
 
Old 10-30-2008, 09:27 PM   #13
Ole Juul
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aus9: "thanks but I have not solved your problem."

Yes, but there has been considerable improvement. Here is what I have done and the results:

I hope this is not causing too much of a movable target, but I have now installed Linux Mint 5 KDE CE. It installed without any glitches, including hardware discovery. The user is thrilled with the functionality of KDE/Linux and the general improvements over MS-XP-sp3. So, the 1st goal of getting a decent install with KDE has been achieved. (hurray!) Based on what I've seen I may consider Mint for my own machine too.

1. Re syslog: I connected the camera twice and noticed it made a difference in the address (6 and 7) so I included a few more lines so you could see that.
Code:
Oct 30 18:03:01 CDX kernel: [ 6137.896261] usb 4-1: new full speed USB device
using uhci_hcd and address 6
Oct 30 18:03:01 CDX NetworkManager: <debug> [1225414981.689045] nm_hal_device_
added(): New device added (hal udi is '/org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/usb_device
_40a_5b7_C613_003183463').
Oct 30 18:03:01 CDX kernel: [ 6138.121820] usb 4-1: configuration #1 chosen fr
om 1 choice
Oct 30 18:03:01 CDX NetworkManager: <debug> [1225414981.805260] nm_hal_device_
added(): New device added (hal udi is '/org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/usb_device
_40a_5b7_C613_003183463_if0').
Oct 30 18:04:49 CDX kernel: [ 6245.544685] usb 4-1: USB disconnect, address 6
Oct 30 18:04:49 CDX NetworkManager: <debug> [1225415089.334596] nm_hal_device_
removed(): Device removed (hal udi is '/org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/usb_device
_40a_5b7_C613_003183463_if0').
Oct 30 18:04:49 CDX NetworkManager: <debug> [1225415089.363521] nm_hal_device_
removed(): Device removed (hal udi is '/org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/usb_device
_40a_5b7_C613_003183463').
Oct 30 18:04:55 CDX kernel: [ 6251.376954] usb 4-1: new full speed USB device
using uhci_hcd and address 7
Oct 30 18:04:55 CDX kernel: [ 6251.608517] usb 4-1: configuration #1 chosen fr
om 1 choice
Oct 30 18:04:55 CDX NetworkManager: <debug> [1225415095.403216] nm_hal_device_
added(): New device added (hal udi is '/org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/usb_device
_40a_5b7_C613_003183463').
Oct 30 18:04:55 CDX NetworkManager: <debug> [1225415095.487422] nm_hal_device_
added(): New device added (hal udi is '/org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/usb_device
_40a_5b7_C613_003183463_if0').
2. Re kinfocenter: That does indeed seem to have more info than lsusb. In fact, it shows devices getting added in real time. The information may be instructive so I typed some of it out. (gui won't alow cut of whole screen so I hope I didn't mess the info too much).
Code:
EHCI Host Controller (5)
Manufacturer: Linux 2.6.24-21-generic ehci_hcd
   - usb ver 2.00
   Flash Reader
   Manufacturer: SanDisk
   - usb ver 2.0

Manufacturer: Linux 2.6.24-21-generic uhci_hcd
UHCI Host Controller (1)
  - usb ver 1.01
  HP Scanjet Scanner
  Manufacturer: Hewlett-Packard
  - usb ver 1.01

UHCI Host Controller (2)
  Manufacturer: Linux 2.6.24-21-generic uhci_hcd
  - usb ver 1.01

  USB OPTICAL MOUSE
  Manufacturer: PIXART
  - usb 1.01

UHCI Host Controller (3)
  Manufacturer: Linux 2.6.24-21-generic uhci_hcd
  - usb ver 1.01
  USB Storage Device
  Manufacturer: Generic
  usb ver 1.01

UHCI Host Controller (4)
  Manufacturer: Linux 2.6.24-21-generic uhci_hcd
  usb ver 1.01

  a/ Plug in Olympus camera and we get:
  C-5000Z
  Manufacturer: OLYMPUS
  - usb ver 1.01

  b/ Plug in Kodak camera and we get:
  KODAK EasyShare C613 Zoom Digital Camera
  Manufacturer: Eastman Kodak Company
  - usb ver 2.0
Related events: Konqueror shows media as two disks and floppy. Turn on Kodak camera and then it shows nothing! Refreshing page shows same. Plug in Olympus camera and Konqueror still shows disks and floppy but nothing else.

3. Re make and model of cameras: The Olympus camera was only used as a test device here. The important one which needs to work is the KODAK EasyShare C613.

4. Re USB card reader: The one that is built in fits nothing that we've ever tried and perhaps it should be removed. There is an external card reader for Olympus cards only but it is just for temporary testing. Putting a memory card in it produces no response and Konqueror still shows nothing.

Buying another device to read the SD cards from the Kodak would be an excellent solution, but doesn't look hopeful just yet.

Notes:
Since there is now a functional install of Mint instead of a questionable install of Ubuntu I tried disabling apparmor again, but it didn't seem to make any difference.

The irony here is that this is the only computer (in over 20 years) that I have ever bought new! I always just buy parts. Perhaps I should not trust the OEM in this case - more specifically, that built-in card reader is suspect. Should I remove it?

Cheers, Ole
 
Old 10-30-2008, 11:25 PM   #14
Ole Juul
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Addendum:
I just noticed that the internal USB flash reader is a "Desknote UCR-61S2B". That's the one on UHCI Host Controller (3) that also advertises itself as usb 1.01. A net search shows me that some people have had problems. I will investigate further.
 
Old 10-31-2008, 02:05 AM   #15
Electro
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Did you try adding noapic and noacpi or apci=off at the boot loader?

You might need pci=nomsi if it does not work.

Not all manufactures complies to specifications. Since Biostar is an economy motherboard manufacture, they may skim on providing the maximum current that USB can handle. They may set the current limit less than what USB should have. If the mouse is consuming more current than it should, try using a PS/2 mouse. Also try using an active USB hub.

I suggest replacing the USB card reader with an IDE card reader. The following might work in Linux.

http://www.addonics.com/products/fla..._digidrive.asp

Next time, buy from better motherboard brands such as Gigabyte, MSI, or Abit.
 
  


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