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Old 08-14-2013, 04:40 PM   #1
Cocolate
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UEFI BIOS experienced user info help please


I purchased a new computer recently. The mobo is ASUS E45M1-I DELUX this is running a UEFI BIOS and an Integrated ATI Radeon™ HD 6320 GPU.

So heres the issue: I n00bed a couple days ago when I learned about "flashing the BIOS". I have flashed my Android, but never my PC mobo. I feel like its similar. Apon studying how to flash my BIOS I learned that this isn't as common knowledge on a UEFI BIOS utility. Also I learned it is likely that my drivers will have to be updated/ before OS installation.

The first OS I tried to install was my fav distro at the time last year Blackbuntu. I got a static screen and figured that the OS wasn't compatible. I didnt use the computer for a couple months and recently got back to it and attempted installing Ubuntu 10.04 which gave me a blank black screen. The ubuntu support forum told me 10.04 did not support UEFI BIOS and to install 12.04 (which I am now). A few days ago I decided I needed Back Track R3 for a project, and school begins next week (5 days) and I would have liked to have BT5 dual booted with my system before semester begins. If you must know the tool I need to use for BT it is the wifi sniffer.

I have since learned that updating the drivers while still in grub is probably why my OS's are not showing the desktop. Everything I have tried though is not prevailing. And this is a common problem.

http://www.backtrack-linux.org/forum...ight=uefi+bios
http://www.backtrack-linux.org/forum...t=40224&page=8
http://www.backtrack-linux.org/forum...ad.php?t=40224
http://mygeekopinions.blogspot.com/2...yst-linux.html
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2147295
http://crunchbang.org/forums/viewtopic.php?id=17948&p=1

These are all links with information on flashing BIOS, UEFI BIOS info, and updating GPU drivers causing installation problems.

I have read every page on the forums but nothing is really connecting for me. I'm not taking the right steps it would appear and I am lost with which the first proper step to take is. Right now I'm attempting to update my drivers through grub somehow, using one of the links from "mygeekopinions" listed above. That is the closest workwaround I can believe is what my main issue is, but I also learned of secure boot for UEFI. Here is a video just for the sake of anyone coming across my thread and this thread is thoroughly informative for anyone seeking help or taking the initiative to help research the solution:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAnlhkbMang

I think this has to do more with flashing the BIOS and even though I am interested in making sure my BIOS is updated I do not think this is why I cannot install my prefered distro. I think its only the GPU.

I do not think it is this complicated. UEFI BIOS is supposed to make things simpler, but I'm struggling with where to find help. I can't take on any new projects until this one has been victorius and I am feeling worn out with searching everywhere just leading to dead end after dead end.

So can anyone here help point myself to the helpful thread/forum/member/patch? Otherwise thanks for taking the time to read this if you did.
 
Old 08-14-2013, 06:01 PM   #2
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The only things you haven't told us are what BIOS version shipped with the unit and where you got this flash update from?
Seen this? http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/E45...rt_Download_29

Perhaps you can get back to what was shipped with the mobo within "5 days" of starting "school"...
 
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Old 08-14-2013, 06:16 PM   #3
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You overcomplicate things. Unless you have serious issues or you need support for a newer CPU (which by the way integrates the GPU, on modern mainboard there is no GPU on the board itself anymore) or better compatibility with certain RAM modules there is usually no need at all to flash the BIOS. Also, it is not possible to install or upgrade drivers from Grub.
Your real problem is that older versions of the distributions you use are simply not compatible with the new hardware. You learned that already with Ubuntu and installed a newer version. But Backtrack 5R3 is also based on Ubuntu 10.04, so you are still out of luck. I would recommend to just use Kali Linux, which is the successor of Backtrack, this should solve your issues.
 
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Old 08-14-2013, 06:48 PM   #4
Cocolate
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habitual View Post
The only things you haven't told us are what BIOS version shipped with the unit and where you got this flash update from?
Seen this? http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/E45...rt_Download_29

Perhaps you can get back to what was shipped with the mobo within "5 days" of starting "school"...
The BIOS is the in the specs I posted.

Code:
32 Mb Flash ROM , EFI AMI BIOS, PnP, DMI 2.0, WfM 2.0, ACPI 2.0a, SM BIOS 2.6 , Multi-language BIOS, ASUS EZ Flash 2, ASUS CrashFree BIOS 3, F12 PrintScreen Function
And I have downloaded the first link under BIOS. When Archive Manager opens it I get this error.

"Could not open "E45M1-IDELUX-ASUS-0405.ROM
Archive type not supported"

I believe this is because of the .ROM extension, but I'm not sure exactly how to burn it on a USB if possible (that is my only method available currently).

Yes I have school starts on Monday and I am taking a networking class.

I am sorry for taking so long to respond I was having a throbbing headache earlier and needeed a short break.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TobiSGD View Post
You overcomplicate things. Unless you have serious issues or you need support for a newer CPU (which by the way integrates the GPU, on modern mainboard there is no GPU on the board itself anymore) or better compatibility with certain RAM modules there is usually no need at all to flash the BIOS. Also, it is not possible to install or upgrade drivers from Grub.
Your real problem is that older versions of the distributions you use are simply not compatible with the new hardware. You learned that already with Ubuntu and installed a newer version. But Backtrack 5R3 is also based on Ubuntu 10.04, so you are still out of luck. I would recommend to just use Kali Linux, which is the successor of Backtrack, this should solve your issues.
Kali Linux would then be compatible with UEFI I'll have to look into that.

Why is it possible for older OS's not to be compatible with BIOS? Should there be workarounds or patches later down the road? Or that is a get older hard ware to use older systems patch?

Actually theres tons of info on Backtrack-linux.org of BT5 working on UEFI BIOS's as I have posted links in the first post. Isnt that true?

Last edited by Cocolate; 08-14-2013 at 06:52 PM.
 
Old 08-14-2013, 07:26 PM   #5
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The problem is not at all your UEFI firmware, your problem is that the hardware in that machine is to new for those old distributions.
 
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Old 08-14-2013, 09:24 PM   #6
Cocolate
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TobiSGD View Post
The problem is not at all your UEFI firmware, your problem is that the hardware in that machine is to new for those old distributions.
You are right, however what I have found is that if I disable secure boot I can install some of these older distros.

I have the manual for the motherboard which goes in depth with updating the BIOS using windows, but there is no information on disabling secure boot. There is some information on Youtube of enabling secure boot, but the reason why I need to install BT5 is my Internet will not load Youtube videos, and its not a ISP issue, its not a hardware problem with the computer either. I guess I'll explain. The reason the videos will not load is I am on a free open network near my new apartment I just moved into 2 months ago. I can buy Internet for $50 per month, but I do not have the extra income to pay this rent, food, phone, and bills so using one of the other 30-40 Internet connections located around my apartment during the beginning of school looks pretty good for a while.

The information I found online for disabling secure boot mostly goes in depth with Windows 8 and some information on signed OS's such as more recent Ubuntu versions, and Fedora. My version of UEFI seems to be 2.6, and the video with the most recent version of UEFI disabling secure boot seems to be version 2.3 and using Windows 8. So thats why I feel so stuck.

When I tap into BIOS I cannot find an option to enable/disable secure boot. And when looking for a way to do this the options in the tuts look different than my UEFI BIOS screen. When I find one that looks similar it is not showing how to enable/disable secure boot.

So that is what I am working most likely for the next couple days. Any and all help is greatly appreciated.
 
Old 08-15-2013, 02:03 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cocolate View Post
The BIOS is the in the specs I posted.

Code:
32 Mb Flash ROM , EFI AMI BIOS, PnP, DMI 2.0, WfM 2.0, ACPI 2.0a, SM BIOS 2.6 , Multi-language BIOS, ASUS EZ Flash 2, ASUS CrashFree BIOS 3, F12 PrintScreen Function
And I have downloaded the first link under BIOS. When Archive Manager opens it I get this error.

"Could not open "E45M1-IDELUX-ASUS-0405.ROM
Archive type not supported"

I believe this is because of the .ROM extension, but I'm not sure exactly how to burn it on a USB if possible (that is my only method available currently).
The BIOS specs arent going to help much. What Habitual didnt exactly say but (IMO anyway) meant is 'what BIOS version are you using, because there might not be an update'.

The manual tells you what to do with the .rom file., section 2.1.2. You just copy the .rom file to the / of a USB flash drive and run EZ flash2 (probably requires the drive to be fat32 as well, though that is not mentioned).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cocolate View Post
I have the manual for the motherboard which goes in depth with updating the BIOS using windows, but there is no information on disabling secure boot.
Because there isnt any secure boot in that BIOS. Just because its UEFI doesnt mean it will have secure boot.

E series CPUs are an early 2011 release, and were a new architecture. Distros from before early 2011 will have huge issues or just not run at all. TobiSGD is right, its hardware too new for those old distros.
 
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Old 08-15-2013, 04:17 AM   #8
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I doubt that installing backtrack5 will allow you to view youtube videos if your network denies.

Anyway first get a distribution up and running and after that take care of other problems like youtube videos.
I downloaded the manual of mobo and there is a way how to upgrade the bios with the rom on a usb stick and freeDOS boot cd. Page 2-4 (34/56).

Regarding the secure boot I did not found anything in the manual however are you aware of the BIOS having two modes? Normal and Advanced? The top right corner seems to toogle it. Maybe you can find some option there.
 
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Old 08-15-2013, 05:54 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cocolate View Post
When I tap into BIOS I cannot find an option to enable/disable secure boot. And when looking for a way to do this the options in the tuts look different than my UEFI BIOS screen. When I find one that looks similar it is not showing how to enable/disable secure boot.
UEFI is not disabled from the BIOS. Depending on your computer, UEFI settings are opened with F9, 10 or 11 during boot-up. If you do not want to include Windows in your multi-boot set-up, in addition to disabling Secure Boot, you must also engage Legacy mode.
 
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Old 08-15-2013, 11:12 PM   #10
Cocolate
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cascade9 View Post
The BIOS specs arent going to help much. What Habitual didnt exactly say but (IMO anyway) meant is 'what BIOS version are you using, because there might not be an update'.

The manual tells you what to do with the .rom file., section 2.1.2. You just copy the .rom file to the / of a USB flash drive and run EZ flash2 (probably requires the drive to be fat32 as well, though that is not mentioned).
Its version is 0306. I'll be back home tomorrow and try this on a USB. And thanks that helped alot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cascade9 View Post
Because there isnt any secure boot in that BIOS. Just because its UEFI doesnt mean it will have secure boot.
I also read that somewhere. But I also read I can turn off UEFI isnt that true? Then that would mean I could boot older distros? When someone gets a UEFI BIOS that has Win8 preinstalled and they want to dual boot another OS that hasn't been signed with Intel they turned off secure boot and somehow made it possible to boot both OS's. Before any Linux distros were signed there was a workaround to get these OS's on the same system as Win8. Its a little advanced for me.

This is one of the most detailed tuts I was able to find online so far but I just dont grasp all of it yet.

http://forums.opensuse.org/english/g...-uefi-etc.html

Also this one I found very valuable. Right now these are my two main study guides.

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2147295

Quote:
Originally Posted by cascade9 View Post
E series CPUs are an early 2011 release, and were a new architecture. Distros from before early 2011 will have huge issues or just not run at all. TobiSGD is right, its hardware too new for those old distros.
Thats exactly right it is a year 2011. If I didnt need the computer so badly before school to run faster I could take it slower and feel more relaxed. I just feel a little stressed with semesters first day in 3 days.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zhjim View Post
I doubt that installing backtrack5 will allow you to view youtube videos if your network denies.

Anyway first get a distribution up and running and after that take care of other problems like youtube videos.
Im running Ubuntu 12.04 which works well on this. I need BT5 for airmon-ng. I have authorization to do so. Also I was referred to Kali which should be UEFI compatible so thats under consideration presently.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zhjim View Post
I downloaded the manual of mobo and there is a way how to upgrade the bios with the rom on a usb stick and freeDOS boot cd. Page 2-4 (34/56).

Regarding the secure boot I did not found anything in the manual however are you aware of the BIOS having two modes? Normal and Advanced? The top right corner seems to toggle it. Maybe you can find some option there.
Yes updated from a USB stick is a good suggestion and very helpful at this point. Thats also my plan currently.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randicus Draco Albus View Post
UEFI is not disabled from the BIOS. Depending on your computer, UEFI settings are opened with F9, 10 or 11 during boot-up. If you do not want to include Windows in your multi-boot set-up, in addition to disabling Secure Boot, you must also engage Legacy mode.
I wouldn't mind enabling Legacy mode. I cannot turn off secure boot in this version of my BIOS. I dont mind turning off UEFI, using the program I need, and then turning UEFI back on and going about studying this without the anxiety. I am not sure how complicated/dangerous that is. I did not know F9-11 was a possible way to boot otherwise and look forward to trying when I get back home tomorrow. I am planning on bring Kali back home with me since I couldn't download it from my house.

Last edited by Cocolate; 08-16-2013 at 12:59 AM.
 
Old 08-16-2013, 03:27 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cocolate View Post
Its version is 0306. I'll be back home tomorrow and try this on a USB. And thanks that helped alot.
Initial release version, so its porbably not that bad an idea to update to a newer version. But its not going to help you run old OSes, it its likley there will be no real difference between 0306 and 0405.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cocolate View Post
I also read that somewhere. But I also read I can turn off UEFI isnt that true? Then that would mean I could boot older distros? When someone gets a UEFI BIOS that has Win8 preinstalled and they want to dual boot another OS that hasn't been signed with Intel they turned off secure boot and somehow made it possible to boot both OS's. Before any Linux distros were signed there was a workaround to get these OS's on the same system as Win8. Its a little advanced for me.

This is one of the most detailed tuts I was able to find online so far but I just dont grasp all of it yet.

http://forums.opensuse.org/english/g...-uefi-etc.html

Also this one I found very valuable. Right now these are my two main study guides.

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2147295
With some UEFI versions you can change to 'BIOS-compatibility mode', but not that motherboard.

Like I said before, just because its UEFI doesnt mean its got Secure Boot. That motherboard does not have secure boot.

Your issue is not secure boot, its trying to use distros with no UEFI bootloader.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cocolate View Post
Im running Ubuntu 12.04 which works well on this. I need BT5 for airmon-ng. I have authorization to do so. Also I was referred to Kali which should be UEFI compatible so thats under consideration presently.
airmon-ng should run with pretty much any distro. But I never help people with airmon/aircrack...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randicus Draco Albus View Post
UEFI is not disabled from the BIOS. Depending on your computer, UEFI settings are opened with F9, 10 or 11 during boot-up. If you do not want to include Windows in your multi-boot set-up, in addition to disabling Secure Boot, you must also engage Legacy mode.
'Del' to get into the UEFI/BIOS with that board (and most other asus boards as well).

You cant disable secure boot if its not present.

'Legacy mode' gets confusing, its used far too much. As far as I know with asus boards, when you turn off secure boot you change 'OS Type' from 'Windows 8 UEFI' to 'Other Legacy & UEFI'. There are distros that will run with secure boot enabled, you dont have to disable secure boot unless you want to use a OS with no secure boot support.
 
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Old 08-16-2013, 04:41 AM   #12
Cocolate
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cascade9 View Post
Initial release version, so its porbably not that bad an idea to update to a newer version. But its not going to help you run old OSes, it its likley there will be no real difference between 0306 and 0405.



With some UEFI versions you can change to 'BIOS-compatibility mode', but not that motherboard.

Like I said before, just because its UEFI doesnt mean its got Secure Boot. That motherboard does not have secure boot.

Your issue is not secure boot, its trying to use distros with no UEFI bootloader.



airmon-ng should run with pretty much any distro. But I never help people with airmon/aircrack...



'Del' to get into the UEFI/BIOS with that board (and most other asus boards as well).

You cant disable secure boot if its not present.

'Legacy mode' gets confusing, its used far too much. As far as I know with asus boards, when you turn off secure boot you change 'OS Type' from 'Windows 8 UEFI' to 'Other Legacy & UEFI'. There are distros that will run with secure boot enabled, you dont have to disable secure boot unless you want to use a OS with no secure boot support.
Although I do believe you because I have watched/read somewhere that not all UEFI systems have "secure boot en/dis" or that you can "switch on/off UEFI". I forget with all the amounts of information. But what I do remember is in the Intel video and a few other places I came across they stated that secure boot MUST be a possible on/off feature.

The reason for this is that Win8 will be preinstalled on UEFI systems which means all other OS's will either have to join or not be able to boot. This even would effect MS because their own Win systems cannot all boot on UEFI. This is why it is a standard mandatory feature that secure boot IS possible on all UEFI systems. I do agree with you though. On THIS system I cannot find secure boot anywhere so I can't argue with you.

Here is the Intel video where he talks about secure boot
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAnlhkbMang
@2:15 en/dis secure boot optional

I know this is difficult, but I'm becoming addicted to learning about this. I love how difficult it is to learn, but I think once I understand it, its really not that confusing.

I'll be really disappointed if I can't boot some of the distros I've been dying to try. You know whats interesting Cascade9 is about 2 years ago I joined this forum...I forget the email/pass I think my name was 0ptim4. I needed help with learning of building a new machine and alot of things you told me back then I still remember to this day and even still basically remember that thread I made that guides me with how I think of my PC today.

I now have that new PC. Its the fastest computer I have ever used. I know its a little small, but its perfect for the steps I am taking to learn. I was excited to use this system with trying out Gentoo, #!, OpenSusa, Debian, to name a few. But this would mean that that will never be possible with my current motherboard? That can't be true

!

Well anyways nice to be back and see you still filling in those bits and pieces that just dont seem to be adding up.

Btw heres another really good link I found that helps decipher UEFI and really simplifies it in English:

http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/UEFI_Gen..._Install_Guide

Last edited by Cocolate; 08-16-2013 at 04:46 AM.
 
Old 08-17-2013, 05:29 AM   #13
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I think I know how you're got confused.

UEFI (Unified Extensible Firmware Interface) is a development of EFI (Extensible Firmware Interface) originally made by intel in the mid 90s for 'itanium' systems to get around some of the BIOS limitations.

EFI wasnt used much, the 1st big user was apple. They used it on the intel macs.

UEFI became a bit more popular when 2.2TB+ HDDs came out (BIOS MBR booting is limited to drives smaller than 2.2TB). That is (IMO) probably the main reason why your ASUS E45M1-I DELUX has UEFI, so it can boot with 2.2TB+ HDDs.

Microsoft requires secure boot for system with the 'Windows 8 Certified' sticker. They also require the ability to turn off secure boot for x86 systems (not ARM). However....that doesnt mean that all Win 8 systems will have the ability to turn of UEFI (you dont 'need' the 'Windows 8 Certified' sticker)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cocolate View Post
I now have that new PC. Its the fastest computer I have ever used. I know its a little small, but its perfect for the steps I am taking to learn. I was excited to use this system with trying out Gentoo, #!, OpenSusa, Debian, to name a few. But this would mean that that will never be possible with my current motherboard? That can't be true
Because it has been around for a while, and is now going to be 'industry standard' EFI/UEFI booting is something most/all linux distros have worked or are working on currently.

You'll have to check with the distros you want to try. But most distros will run with UEFI, at least with 2012/2013 versions. It could take some stuffing around with some dsitros, some should work 'out of the box'-

Quote:
Debian Installer 7.0 Beta3 release

UEFI support (see "hardware changes" below).

Hardware support changes

Add EFI support for 64-bit PCs (amd64), allowing installation in EFI mode instead of using the legacy BIOS. This does not include any support for UEFI Secure Boot — that will come later.
http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-i.../2012/20121018

That also shows why UEFI/secure boot can be confusing- just adding UEFI support doesnt mean that it will work with secure boot.

Since you dont have secure boot, you shouldnt have a problem with it, all you need is UEFI support.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cocolate View Post
I'll be really disappointed if I can't boot some of the distros I've been dying to try. You know whats interesting Cascade9 is about 2 years ago I joined this forum...I forget the email/pass I think my name was 0ptim4. I needed help with learning of building a new machine and alot of things you told me back then I still remember to this day and even still basically remember that thread I made that guides me with how I think of my PC today.
Wow, thanks for the compliment.
 
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Old 08-19-2013, 04:17 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cascade9 View Post
I think I know how you're got confused.

UEFI (Unified Extensible Firmware Interface) is a development of EFI (Extensible Firmware Interface) originally made by intel in the mid 90s for 'itanium' systems to get around some of the BIOS limitations.

EFI wasnt used much, the 1st big user was apple. They used it on the intel macs.

UEFI became a bit more popular when 2.2TB+ HDDs came out (BIOS MBR booting is limited to drives smaller than 2.2TB). That is (IMO) probably the main reason why your ASUS E45M1-I DELUX has UEFI, so it can boot with 2.2TB+ HDDs.
Hmm. Well that answered a big question shadowing my thoughts. I was wondering exactly what UEFI is and why its there. So even though I've basically read that over and over in wiki and the like; that was pretty plain English for anyone to read loud and clear.

My motherboard is a mini motherboard. It could fit in half the size of average computer cases. Do you think that still has to with 2.2TB+ HDD's?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cascade9 View Post
Microsoft requires secure boot for system with the 'Windows 8 Certified' sticker. They also require the ability to turn off secure boot for x86 systems (not ARM). However....that doesnt mean that all Win 8 systems will have the ability to turn of UEFI (you dont 'need' the 'Windows 8 Certified' sticker)
Right thats true, I knew that but I didnt understand why. English, again, much good much good.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cascade9 View Post
Because it has been around for a while, and is now going to be 'industry standard' EFI/UEFI booting is something most/all linux distros have worked or are working on currently.

You'll have to check with the distros you want to try. But most distros will run with UEFI, at least with 2012/2013 versions. It could take some stuffing around with some dsitros, some should work 'out of the box'-

http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-i.../2012/20121018

That also shows why UEFI/secure boot can be confusing- just adding UEFI support doesnt mean that it will work with secure boot.

Since you dont have secure boot, you shouldnt have a problem with it, all you need is UEFI support.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Debian Hardware Changes
Add EFI support for 64-bit PCs (amd64), allowing installation in EFI mode instead of using the legacy BIOS. This does not include any support for UEFI Secure Boot — that will come later.
That all has to do with 'Windows 8 Certified'. Ahhhh, master jedi
Kinda scary making something like this industry standard with one sudden new OS release, not even all the Windows OS's can use UEFI, but I think its making a move for the best forward, do you?
[/QUOTE]

No thank you sensei, thank you
 
Old 08-19-2013, 04:25 AM   #15
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This was one of my favorite threads so far reading about UEFI which I have already listed above in my 4th post

http://forums.opensuse.org/english/g...-uefi-etc.html

One of the many
 
  


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