SunRay 3, use as Thin Client? Feasible or pointless?
 

I’ve posted this in hardware but it’s mainly a software solution I’m looking for. Please move as appropriate.

Hi, I volunteer at a charity which refurbishes and repurposes old computer kit before donating it to charities at home and abroad for use by school kids who wouldn’t otherwise be able to access remote education facilities.

We’ve had a donation of “never been used” SunRay 3 clients which, if it were possible, would be ideal to set up multiple clients run from a laptop “server”. I’m thinking remote display, keyboard and mouse with user accounts on the server.

I’ve previously played with Sun Xterminals (microSparc processor) using a program called SLXT 0.7a way back in 2001 which did the job back then.

What I’ve found out so far…

The SunRay 3 has a Mips RMI Alchemy Au1550 processor, production was discontinued in 2014.
Needed Oracle’s SRSS (SunRay Software Server) software which is/was proprietary, though free. A $100.00 licence per client was required.
The last version was 5.4.5 which requires a “My Oracle Support” account. I’ve managed to download version 4.2. It runs on SuSE (SLES 10) or Red Hat RHEL AS 5)
Looking at Admin PDFs I think it’s far more complicated than is needed. The install scripts need tweaking; e.g. for “ print” read “echo” being the easiest. They just get more complicated! I’m hardware not software!

Also, I’m using Fedora 37 as the host OS instead of Red Hat which further complicates matters.

Other “solutions”:

jOpenRay (also kOpenRay). Java based with the code released in 2010. Only works with VNC (Virtual Network Computing) or RFB (Remote Frame Buffer_ Display, written for SunRay 2 devices, probably doesn’t work with SunRay 3. Software discontinued in 2014 along with the hardware. Problems as Apache Ant needs to be built and installed. Aaaarrgghh!

LTSP (Linux Terminal Server Project)

Nearly ideal but uses up to 10 clients with i3-6100 processors and 4Gb Ram. No Mips alternative.

Has anybody worked on anything like this using SunRay 3s or is it a pointless task?

If we could get somewhere, deploying Internet in a Box would also be worthwhile.

Thanks for reading this far without falling asleep!

Play Bonny!

:hattip:

Soadyheid,

Is it worth sending an email to DTU Compute asking for help/advice?

https://itswiki.compute.dtu.dk/index...y_thin_clients

https://itswiki.compute.dtu.dk/index...erminal_Server

https://www.compute.dtu.dk/

Also, have a look at this video from 17.00:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMaSR2B06xM

clabretro videos:
https://www.youtube.com/@clabretro

Cheers beachboy2! Might well be worth an email. :D

Thanks for the info!

Play Bonny!

:hattip:

Soadyheid,

Also try this LQ link:
https://www.linuxquestions.org/quest...-a-4175596330/

I assume they pxe boot over network. I tend to spin up a Knoppix dvd and start it's terminal server.

Soadyheid,

Some used Sun Ray 3 thin clients on ebay at £49.99:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/305256914673

The vendor also has the Solaris 9 x86 Operating System Software:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/304358657...wAAOSw3I1iC80c

Solaris 9:
https://www.oracle.com/solaris/techn...ingsystem.html

@beachboy2
As originally posted, I'm talking somewhere around 2,000? We're a charity, we don't have money to buy kit. Also, the server OS again has to be free Open Source stuff, not Solaris.
The "Internet in a Box" project runs on Raspberry Pi OS, Ubuntu 22.4+, Mint 21+ and Debian 12+

Thanks for the thought though. :)

@jefro

I'll check out your Knoppix suggestion but as the SunRay 3 has a Mips processor rather than X86 or ARM, not sure...

Play Bonny!

:hattip:

Ok, the computers sound like crap, but that's all that's needed really, isn't it? It gets libreoffice and a browser running. through some server.

That's a Mips cpu? I'd approach that by getting any pre-compiled linux OS for Mips. From the RPi experience, I know that code written & tested on x86 (as glibc was) doesn't necessarily compile painlessly on any other cpu. The software will be frozen in time, as there's no updates.

Have you got one up and running? mips.com & linux-mips.org are two useful sites for you, I imagine. PXE mightn't be practical in all circumstances. Disk images would do if you had a live cd/dvd/usb. I'd make that my first goal. Plans come later.

EDIT: For sure, gentoo did a mips version. Might still do.

It's worth noting that the SunRay series of thin clients require a proprietary back end or server side software suite. This suite is quite expensive and uses expensive to implement and maintain.

Soadyheid,

You misunderstand me. Perhaps I should have been clearer.

If all else fails, SELL some of the Sun Ray 3s to get some funds for the charity and buy some more suitable hardware.

Good luck.

@niceflipper8827

as I mentioned in my original post:@business_kid

The SunRay 3 is effectively a sealed box, no disk, no memory, nothing worth trying to open the case for. Whatever it uses is in the internal firmware. All the heavy lifting is done on the server via the SRSS software or hopefully some open source hack which is why I was asking. Not looking good though.

@beachboy2

Sorry, you meant sell them. We've actually been using some as packing items (instead of styrofoam pellets) in pallets of HP all in ones being sent abroad, but selling is a thought. I'll check with the boss.

Hmmm... Why would anyone want to buy one for £50 if they're so hard to stage now?

Play Bonny!

:hattip:

Soadyheid,

DTU Compute may take a few off your hands, but probably not 2000!

They may know of other organisations who may be interested in the Sun Rays.

clabretro was planning to make a fourth video about the Sun Ray 3.

It might be useful to contact him and ask if he has made any progress:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMaSR2B06xM

https://www.youtube.com/@clabretro

Soadyheid,

Worth a look.

Victor Bart-RETRO Machines:
https://www.youtube.com/@victorbart

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dfK0RS6wN4

Cheers beachboy2, Most of the content you've highlighted is Sun Microsystems related (I used to maintain a whole lot of their Sparc based Enterprise servers and Ultra boxes, even installing Gentoo on an Ultra 2 which was fun!)

Unfortunately... Internet-in-a-Box runs on Debian Based Linux. I've tried installing it on a couple of laptops, one worked but no WiFi hotspot, the other fails and gives a "403 Forbidden" error. (The install/upgrade didn't work properly though.)

Oracle's SRSS SunRay software runs on Red Hat or SuSE Linux, not Debian, so that's a problem.

I may have to revisit the kOpenRay solution which is Java based so should be OS agnostic. It has a lot fewer bells and whistles, i.e. the USB connections on the SunRay 3 won't work.

Play Bonny!

and thanks again.

:hattip:

Just a word, Soadyheid:

I lost interest in this over the memory situation. You won't be able to give kids the PC experience, or even play games with each other. The longer this goes on, the more danger there is of this becoming a time trap for you - something that guzzles your time without positive results or feedback.

You'd be better off with RazPis

@business_kid

I think you've missed the point. We're not trying to give kids PC experience or have them play games. We're trying to give them facilities to gain education via a stand alone non internet connected resource.

As a charity we're trying to repurpose old IT kit which has been donated free, (We've got about 2,000 brand new unused SunRays as I've mentioned previously)so if there's some way we can build a little network of say, 10, of them plus a laptop using open source software we've, as they say here in Scotland, "Won a watch!"

If you know of someone who'd like to donate 2,000 Raspberry Pis we'd be delighted to accept them. (They work particularly well with Internet-in-a-Box software!) Their use is something we are looking into though.

We're mainly old (grumpy) retired volunteers, so trying to find out if something like this is possible is probably good for stimulating a brain which otherwise might start to fall into a state of disrepair and decrepitude.

As per the title of the post, is it feasible or pointless? Looking increasingly like the latter but I don't think I've exhausted all the possibilities yet.

Thanks again for your comments.

Play Bonny!

:hattip:

To me, the issue would be memory. Can't you have any local memory cache?

Well, the bottleneck I'm looking at is network. With 1Gb ethernet, you'd have a total memory bandwidth (for the class) of ≅100MB/S. That's painful. I bought two "usb-3.0" drives, which behave like slow usb-2.0 drives. hdparm -t reports 101.5MB/S. Firefox, etc. won't run in any sensible way from a live usb on them. Click on firefox - it does nothing ... nothing ... nothing ... then it unfolds. But you can't click on anything for perhaps another minute. I couldn't log into LQ because I think it got events in the wrong order.

Now divide that by 10 for a class of 10 all clicking together :twocents:.

Soadyheid,

I think the Internet-in-a-box idea is truly brilliant.
https://internet-in-a-box.org/

IIAB hardware:
https://wiki.iiab.io/go/FAQ#What_har...hould_I_use%3F

Any Raspberry Pi (used or new) donors out there?

For anybody interested in thin clients have a look here:

https://www.parkytowers.me.uk/thin/

I read that.

It took me back to the days of CP/M "Mini-Computers" which ran small companies over here (1970s/early 1980s). I was there and working. You'd arrive at a 'trade counter' and order your part. The store man would know or look up your part, and enter a one line stock query. A minute or two later he would get back: "No Stock," or a quantity in stock and bin number. And you couldn't get anything out on Thursday morning while the wages went through. But the whole company ran on that Z80. If you got bigger, you needed a couple of mini-computers or blow a million on an IBM...

Now those things had 4Mhz Z80s (≤1Mhz instructions) You plainly have more poke than that; so IF THE KIDS WOULD BE SATISFIED WITH CONSOLE INPUT, you could do stuff. You could teach programming, use nano or the like. I don't think you could provide X for more than a couple. But if you could link one X session onto one monitor, you could keep the monitors on the server and have up to 4 X sessions. IN THEORY, linux ought to be able to do this stuff. In practise, it's an awful big ask. Any of your grumpy old farts know Linux?

Are there grants available? If you teach a computer syllabus, or something?

I've started at the other end of the "feasibility study" and loaded up Internet-in-a-Box on an old HP Elitebook 725 G3 using the one line install: no sudo required! I'm using an empty laptop which I've installed Mint 21.1 on. I was surprised how easy the install went though I had to go through a couple of tidy up iterations using the command Setting the browser to http://box was enough to bring up the home page with the admin page at hhtp://box/admin. (You set up an admin account during installation.) There's a lot of stuff to take in and huge amounts of content you can download including maps, maths and language courses but I particularly liked the "ifixit" stuff which shows you how to service loads of different devices ranging from phones, tablets, desktops, laptops, etc. Just the sort of info that a mobile service guy might need to carry about. Need to diagnose some disease in the middle of the Sahara? There are loads of medical information also.

Very impressed!

I was able to connect my mobile phone to the server after setting the WiFi up as a hot spot but the SunRay stuff is still eluding me.
I installed jOpenRay which gives you a nice little window to set up your SunRays but unfortunately when I power up the client which is connected (as is the laptop server) via my router, it picks up an IP address but doesn't register in jOpenRay. That's as far as I've got so far.

Thanks for the interest!

Hmmm... We've also got shedloads of Wyse 5070 thin clients which you can stick Kubuntu on, Maybe they'd be better for the Internet-in-a-Box project. Must check with the Boss!

Keep using the SunRays as pallet packing fillers! :D

Play Bonny!

:hattip:

The CP/M stuff ran using 80x25 monitors and keyboard, referred to as a 'dumb terminal.' These fed into RS-232 serial ports. They came in several types, probably so sellers could force another set of terminal on whoever bought a pc.

Are you sure there's no way to add ram?

If you can stick Kubuntu on your Wyse thin clients, go that way. They sound much less antique. They'll have some ram. And I'd advise AntiX for size reasons

Of course, all today's kids would want to do is post on social media......

Soadyheid,

For the benefit of those who may be interested, could you let us know the procedure for installing Kubuntu/Ubuntu or Debian/antiX or Linux Mint etc on a Wyse 5070?

Thanks.

Dell Wyse 5070:
https://www.parkytowers.me.uk/thin/wyse/5070/

Certified on Ubuntu:
https://ubuntu.com/certified/201711-25935

https://ubuntu.com/certified/201711-25935/20.04%20LTS

The two below both use the Intel Pentium Silver J5005 @ 1.50GHz, rated by CPU Benchmark at 3088.

Dell Wyse 5070 Intel Pentium Silver J5005 CPU @ 1.50GHz 4GB RAM, 16GB SSD with PSU:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/176156925...Bk9SR7yt-6bGYw

Dell Wyse 5070 N11D Thin Client Pentium Silver J5005 8GB RAM, 32GB SSD With PSU:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/315176362...Bk9SR7yP5K_GYw

@beach_boy2
Ahhh.... There's the problem. I don't have access to how to install Kubuntu just now as the workshop is shut for a week or so. We had a very clever young lad volunteer who set up a bootable USB stick which automagically installed Kubuntu on the internal 16Gb eMMc flash memory using Clonezilla. I'd have to check exactly what he did to make it. His "Beta" version instructions related to the Clonezilla set up, the final version you just booted the stick. I'll check when I can. We'd limit the memory to 4Gb; one 4Gb SODIMM or 2 2Gb ones.

@buisiness_kid

Check out this, er..., SunRay strip down video, round about 8:49. :D :D :D Like I said earlier in the thread, it's a sealed box, nothing inside to work with.

Play Bonny!

:hattip:

Soadyheid,

I tried installing IIAB on an old laptop and all seemed well until I got the failed message below.

I used the "sudo iiab" command but to no avail.

I am not too bothered, but maybe you can see what went wrong from this:

Beachboy2

Sorry, I'm learning just as you are. I ended up running "sudo iiab" a few times and eventually it all went through ending with a Header "Internet in a Box (IIAB) Software install is complete" plus a screen full of info which it told me to photograph before hitting enter to reboot

It failed a few times, I even reinstalled everything to a new nVME drive a couple of times before succeeding.

Possibly a problem with the downloading?

Play Bonny!

:hattip:

Soadyheid,

No problem.

OK, here's the update. I reckon using the SunRays is a no go. Back with the Wyse 5070s... Trying to use the SunRays was the main brief, the Boss had already got the whole Internet-in-a-Box server/client thing up and running with the Wyse thin clients.

As mentioned, our whiz kid had built a bootable Clonzilla USB pen which did the install automagically, however, I've built one manually using a Kubuntu live distro on a USB pen and it works fine.

For those who want to know, you need to reset everything to default plus the BIOS password as below:
With your live distro plugged in, hold F12 while the box reboots, select the USB device and boot Kubuntu. Once running, click install Kubuntu and use the whole of the internal 16Gb eMMc drive as per normal.
You could fit more than 4Gb memory plus an M2.eSATA drive if you wanted but, hey, this is a thin client.

Thanks for all your help, hope the above is of some use to someone.

Play Bonny!

:hattip: