Seagate hard drives do not perform well for an OS or file server. I suggest Western Digital or Hitachi.

Is your present system still fast enough for you or just want a new computer because your neighbor or friend is bragging about his or her computer is faster than yours or you just want a computer that has virtual hardware extensions. I have a Pentium 4 2GHz with 1 GB of RAMBUS ECC memory and your computer is actually faster than mine. My next upgrade will be a faster hard drive because I do not see a point of upgrading the processor when the hard drive is the only component in my computer that is the bottleneck.

The sockets 939, 940, and AM2 will be phased out when the K8L comes. IMHO, DDR2 is slower than DDR even though DDR2 is clocked faster.

Any Athlon64 will be two times faster than your present computer, so the decision is up to you.


If I had to build a desktop computer, I buy the following.
AMD Athlon64 X2 4600+ (/w 1MB L2 cache)
SeaSonic S12 Energy Plus SS-550HT
(2) Kingston 1GB DDR2-800 ECC
ABIT NF-M2 nView
SILVERSTONE SST-SG01-B
Western Digital 'RE' 160 GB
Optional: Western Digital 'Raptor' 74 GB
Teac 1.44 FD with a special 5.25 to 3.5 adaptor

The DVD drive will be taken out of my first computer.

Though, I would buy a notebook computer instead of desktop because desktop cost too much space. Sure building them is fun, but I would like to try something new. I am thinking of an Apple Macbook.

Again whatever you get is up to you. I like to go a little higher or provide a better future path. It is fine to set a budget, but $500 is very low to make a complete system to be used for now and the future.

Electro,

My present system works for what it is... a patched together Windows XP machine. I started building it in the summer of '01... now it has virtually none of the originally components. It has been upgraded and upgraded to the point where it won't do any good to continue to upgrade.

I had linux on the machine at one point, but eventually went back to Windows for gaming. Now I don't have as much time to game, but would like to occasionally... and it looks like more things are becoming compatible with Linux, and if not, people are able to fake them out with Wine.

I don't want to keep pumping money into my old machine when it is pretty much at it's limit performancewise... obviously little things could be done here and there, but I feel I would be better off spending my money on something that's not as limited. And these components are becoming reasonable in price, so now is the time.

And as you said, it's fun to build desktops, and it's been too long for me

Finally, assuming everything goes according to plan, I can have this computer as a dedicated Linux box. I won't have to mess around with dual booting like I have done in the past. I think that I am pretty comfortable with the system that I have spec'd, and may go ahead and order it as early as tomorrow. I could spend the next several months flip-flopping my choices on the hardware, but by then K8L may be out Electro

I think the system I have spec'd out here is really about the best bang for your buck on a machine that should be well-supported in Linux. I don't think that you could get much of a real-world increase in performance without spending substantially ($50+) more money. Do you guys disagree?

knappster,
I know that your brain must be hurting because of all the advice you have been receiving but at least you are checking out your proposed system's Linux compatibility before buying and not afterwards, like so many people do.
I do not believe that you fully appreciated something that Electro mentioned earlier. To run 800MHz memory you will need either the x2 3800 or x2 4600.

See this link for DDR2 ram:
http://images.tomshardware.com/2006/...ration_big.gif

For what it's worth, my new AM2 system is as follows.
It retains my 4 existing IDE drives simply because I hear of so many SATA drive problems in Linux.

OS: openSUSE 10.2
Mobo: Abit kn9 nforce4 (2 IDE ports but no parallel or serial ports)
CPU: AMD x2 3800 2000MHz 65w Economy OEM (no fan). Fantastic value plus dual core power.
Memory: Corsair Twin2X1024-6400C4 800MHz @2.1volts (probably no need to get the C4 version)
PSU: Seasonic S12 430w
(Optional) CPU Cooler: Scythe Mine (superior and quieter to stock AMD cooler/fan)
Case: Akasa Mirage 62 (This is overkill but it is fantastic quality. The Lian-Li PC-7B Plus is also good but a cheaper case will do fine)
Graphics Card: Asus EN 6200TC512/TD/256 DDR2 PCIe (Does 3D graphics fine, is silent and not expensive). You probably require something better in this department.

Refer to Newegg's customer feedback on the cpu at:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819103733

Do note that the Abit kn9 has no parallel port so those people with parallel/parallel printer cables will need to buy a USB/parallel printer cable.

Phoronix also has a review of the Abit kn9 Ultra (5 series chipset) with a single IDE port at:
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...item=530&num=1

Also check out newegg's combo deals.
This was my first Linux self-build and everything works perfectly.
Good luck with whatever you finally decide upon.
PS Don't jump off the nearest tall building!

beachboy2, your link is bad. PCI-X is PCI Extended. PCIe is PCI Express.

A better explanation of what I previously posted is at http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets...px?i=2762&p=10. Since 6000+ came out, I am not sure if it can qualify to run at DDR2-800. I think the 5600+ can qualify to run at DDR2-800.

To make the decision even more confusing, AMD Athlon64 X2 3600+ (Brisbane) maybe more interesting when including its overclocking potential at a very low price. If you can overclock it to 2.8 GHz, then it will be a steal at around $100. One problem is the cache is a little slower than the 90 nm versions. Though, overclocking is harmful to the processor, so be careful.

electro,
I have amended the link about DDR ram and changed the PCI Express reference.
The new AMD cpus you refer to are not yet available in the UK but they do sound very interesting. Correct me if I am wrong but,in order to run at 800MHz, shouldn't the processor speed be exactly divisible by 400?
knappster did not mention overclocking in his plans so I deliberately avoided raising the subject. I thought that he had enough on his plate.
Best wishes.

I understand what both of you are saying about the DDR2-800 memory. But to quote from that Anandtech link, Electro:

"While we haven't seen any significant downside to only running at DDR2-742 vs. DDR2-800, it is something to keep in mind when deciding what CPU to purchase."

I have also read elsewhere that they noticed no real-world performance decrease from running DDR2-800 at the lower clock frequency.

I like what I am seeing on that Abit KN9 nForce4 board, beachboy... I think I may change my mind and pick that now, lol. I'm looking at the manual online right now and it looks very helpful. I will probably stick with the stock AMD heatsink/fan unless I am not happy with the volume or temperature.

My head is hurting, but that's my own fault, haha. I have gotten what I asked for in this thread, lots of useful advice that I couldn't have just googled. The only question that remains for me, is does the onboard NIC work? It doesn't say what chipset it uses, so I am curious what your experience has been. Thanks for the input.

edit:
I just noticed the AMD Windsor 4600+ dropped $11 in price, so I might go ahead and spend the $30 extra on it over the 4200+

knappster,
The NIC works fine. It is probably good to go for the x2 4600 at that price.
I am sure that you have already looked at the newegg customer feedback on the Abit kn9:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...127010&Local=y

There are several happy Linux users on there who will confirm my sentiments.

As you will have seen from the online manual,Abit's documentation is pretty good and streets ahead of some I could name.
Just do as the manual says and first clear the CMOS. Also a 3 pin connector from the cpu cooling fan (you may have a 4 pin on the retail AMD cpu) DOES fit the 4 pin connection on the motherboard (CPUFAN1).This confuses many people but it will only fit one way thanks to the design of the connector.
Depending on what memory you choose you MAY have to increase the default voltage from 1.8 to 2.1 volts in the BIOS SoftMenu Setup.
Consult the memory manufacturer on this first. If you do have to do that then use a single stick of ram first. This may not apply to your memory so don't worry.
Remember to use round ide cables not the supplied flat ones if you are concerned about airflow through the case.
I have no personal experience of the stock AMD cpu cooling fan with regard to noise or efficiency but I can strongly recommend the Scythe Mine. I also use Akasa Amber 120mm case fans although they are probably overkill. My cpu temp is 22 C, system temp 24 C and Power Management temp 42 C.
Good luck with your new Linux box!

knappster,
Having looked more closely at the prices of the x2 3800 ($119) and the x2 4600 ($215) I would personally get the former and put the $96 to much better use elsewhere (memory, case, graphics, case fans etc).The Enermax or Seasonic psus are fine.
If you can get the OEM version of the x2 3800 (65watt ADO prefix) which is even cheaper than the retail version then for $33 the Scythe Mine is an absolute steal! It was tested in the same edition of the magazine below and was a convincing winner on both AMD and Intel cpus.Just remember to use Arctic Silver5 thermal paste.
PC Pro magazine (December 2006) in the UK did a comparison of 58 cpus.The x2 4600 has approximately 15% more speed for about twice the price.This is not good value for money.
At the end of the day it is your decision. You pay your money and take your choice.
Best wishes.

I'm going to be out of the country all of next week, so I'll probably order my system tonight. I am going to stick with the 4600+, because it was about $210 (normal version, not energy efficient), now it's down to $199. I'll stick with the stock cooler, and if it sucks I can replace it later (not planning on overclocking at all). Thanks for all your help, I will post my final choices after I order tonight, and then I will post again once I have attempted to assemble and install linux.

edit:
by install "linux" I mean Debian Etch RC1 or RC2 (if it's released) or whatever the newest daily build is... (64-bit version)

I just placed the order:

1. ABIT KN9 Socket AM2 NVIDIA nForce4 Ultra ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
2. AMD Athlon 64 X2 4600+ Windsor 2.4GHz Socket AM2 Processor Model ADA4600CUBOX - Retail
3. G.SKILL 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F2-6400CL5D-2GBNQ - Retail
4. XFX PVT71PUDP3 GeForce 7900GS 256MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 EXTREME Video Card - Retail
5. Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3320620AS (Perpendicular Recording Technology) 320GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
6. Pioneer 16X DVD±R DVD Burner With 5X DVD-RAM Read Black ATAPI Model DVR-111D - OEM
7. COOLER MASTER Centurion 5 CAC-T05-UW Black Aluminum Bezel, SECC ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail
8. ENERMAX EG495AX-VE FMA ATX12V Ver 2.2 485W Power Supply - Retail

I won't be able to touch it for a week, but I will give an update when I do...
The price was $890.43 + $32.52 shipping, so $922.95 shipped, plus there's a $30 mail-in rebate on the video card. I think that's a pretty good price considering the original system I was planning to build would have been $1200 for just the hardware.

I still recommend buying ECC memory because two processors are going to share the memory. When using ECC memory, it will minimize data corruption. People disagree because they think that the processor's built-in code to predict data corruption when using non-ECC memory is good enough.

You are going to have a lot of fun with the Seagate drive. Seagate SATA have problems in Linux. I guess live and learn. Also Seagate is not as fast (high accessing time) as people thought.

I forgot to mention Pioneer DVD recordable drives are not as good as people said. I have a Pioneer drive and it was slow until I used a third-party firmware. The firmware included region free.

Though I would go with the KN9-Ultra because nForce4 chipsets have some problems with NIC if you enable hardware firewall.

I wish Abit makes an AMD based motherboard with their knowledge of better power supply and better capacitors that is seen in Intel based motherboard for LGA775.

Electro,

Your posts seem very condescending. I understand that you have opinions, but so does everyone else. I appreciate the input you have given, but you can be over the top with your comments.

That being said,

I got back this weekend and setup this computer yesterday with the daily build of Debian Etch NetInst (AMD64) and had no hardware errors. I had to change the RAM voltage from 1.8 to 2.0V in order for the dual channel to POST, but it sounds like that is typical. Also, in BIOS, the voltages fluctuate a little bit more than I expected, but I'm not sure if it's the actual power supply or the accuracy of the sensors (when the RAM was set at 1.90V it fluctuated between 1.90 and 1.95V). I don't know if that is a problem or not.

I was able to get the Nvidia driver installed, but it took a little bit of work. Booting to init 2 still started X and if I killed X, it would restart... I had to kill gdm and that crashed X without restarting. Then I could finally install the Nvidia video card driver.

The only 2 catches I have had are:

1. No Macromedia flash support for 64-bit installations...
2. When I'm browsing the Internet, there seem to be "pauses" where the onboard ethernet card just takes a nap for a few seconds before continuing.

I am sure I will run into other hiccups along the way, but all in all, I am very pleased. I have not attempted to burn any CDs/DVDs yet, but the DVD drive seems to be reading okay. I would definitely recommend this build to someone who is looking to spend less than $1000 on a computer with solid performance and compatible with Debian (AMD64). I can't speak for durability, but most problems should be covered under warranty if something does break.

So far so good

Here is a good link to setting up a 32 bit chroot for a second version of firefox that has the possibility of flash.

http://alioth.debian.org/docman/view....html#id292205

At present, there is no way to run flash on a 64 bit install. That is the last major hurdle to 64 bit, open office ported, nvidia has drivers, and java works, so it is just the guys at adobe holding up the flow, while much of the open source guys try to simultaneously reverse engineer flash and then port it to 64 bits.

Peace,
JimBass

Thanks Jim,

I'll try that out tonight... I saw an open source flash player, but it was several revisions behind Adobe's, so I didn't spend much time on it. I also saw a post on the pausing Internet problem saying that it could be caused by firefox (err... Iceweasel in the case of debian) attempting IPv6 then falling back onto IPv4, so I'll see if I can fix that too.

If both work, that will solve my only 2 problems (thus far), lol. I'll keep you posted.

Adobe only released the linux version 9 of flash maybe 2 months ago, it was in beta forever. Previously version 7 existed, but many sites had already been requiring version 8, so we were SOL from the start. I really dislike flash, and I dislike closed sources in my linux, but it has become so prevalent on the net that I cannot do all of my work (or play) without flash being enabled. If they can get an open source flash close to where the proprietary one is at, I'd be using it in a heartbeat.

Peace,
JimBass