Most durable storage media?
 

Let's say a guy wanted to construct a time capsule. I'm referring to one of those boxes or containers that you drop in the ground, and decades later you (or someone else) digs it up to learn things from that time.

And let's say you wanted to drop several Gigabytes worth of digital data in that capsule. What kind of storage media would you put it on? CD-ROM? DVD-ROM? USB stick? SATA drive? Magnetic Tape?

I would put whole computer in it because it may be hard to read sata drive 100 years latter.

Depending on conditons (low-high temperatures, etc.)

I think usb stick and sata drive are best option. Also tape can sustain long periods with little errors.

I would not say that you need whole computer. You can still read clay tables, even though nobody is producing them now.
As yooy say, it depends on conditions. If you put it in absolutely protected and hermetical capsule, then SATA drive would be best option. Othewise put book printed (embossed?) on plastic pages. 8-)

Hi,

I would say any of the suggested media presented for the time frame in a sealed conditioned container for a few decades would suffice.

@OP look at time degradation for the storage medium suggested. Tape is notorious for long term losses and dryout if not handled properly. Masked media would be the first choice. You would need the means to present the information formed on the die. Limited by density! No decay, no losses due to physical traits or handling poorly. Costly to produce but would store forever. Magnetic media does have a short live as compared to a mask prom. Fuse-able linked proms can be produced by consumers but you would be limited in storage and would need to provide the means to read at a later date.

This to would introduce potential problems, any passive or active devices may be damaged due to poor handling. Any electrolytic device would be damaged over time if used.

Someone mentioned clay tablets, these to required years to interpret. Not handily understood! You would be assuming the person who opened such a container understood your intent and able to discern the information presented if long term. Not just decades.
:hattip:

Hi,

Not on topic and not constructive to the thread!

You did read the whole thread? OP wants to have a time capsule, not a backup. Whole different criteria than a backup.

/off topic
If you want long term cycled backup then look at storage drives. You would cycle and grandfather the backups. Do a Search here on LQ & Google as this has been covered many times. For your queries I suggest that you create another thread if you don't find information on your topic.
/back on topic

My approximate times that each would last:

USB stick / flash media = maybe 5-10 years (would discharge and loose all data)
SATA / ATA / magnetic tape = maybe 20-40 years, but data would degrade over time or with elecromagnetic interference, at least make sure to put it in a sealed metal container.
CD / DVD / optical media = I would say 50-100 years if you have good media. I think they make ones specifically for backup purposes. See:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=14582362
http://www.gizmowatch.com/entry/japa...g-alternative/

I always have to laugh a little bit at those who think CD/DVD is a durable media. Many consumer articles refer to it as something which last long. Maybe it is long (10 years?) in a consumer point of vieuw, most of the magazines or web sites such an article is printed in themselves do not even exist anymore after 10 years. Besides, it is in the interest of publishers to promote anything what can be sold, not to be critical about it.

I started building my CD collection in 1984. Many of my CD's, I would say 10-20% contain so many errors they cannot be played anymore. No, that is not my CD player, when I can look through the holes there is something wrong.

In 1992 I had a CD recorded for me, at the time that was quite an enterprise at $30 for an empty disc. 10 years later while stored in a controlled environment the CD already showed defects.

First, storage media are developed to store more than the media sold 6 months ago. Data retention is nice, but it doesn't have to last longer than until the 2nd generation of media after that. Media will be replaced by the manufacturer at failure, the data is not. It is much cheaper for a manufacturer to replace a defective media than to develop something which lasts.

That having said, forget anything feasible for consumers. It won't serve. At least it should be targeted at professional use. Something which really lasts could be a golden plate with an engraved pattern of 0's and 1's. I know, data density is not much. In history something which can hold a gigabyte and lasts for a megayear has simply never been developed. You are still in the 1950's as it were.

jlinkels

Hi,

Yes, the content would be limited for certain storage media but a fused-link PROM density would store enough information for OP. Your not going to place a copy of large body of text but you could still store limited long term information.

As for long term layered media, forget it for any long term. Short life!

Why not just place it all on punched paper tape or punched mylar?? :)

Last as long as your printed material would, if not longer.
:hattip:

The statement about sticking the entire computer into the box is a good idea. Try finding a drive to read 8 inch floppy disks today. While it is possible it is difficult to find a drive and machine that can handle the disks(after roughly 30 years).

Unless you get high end disks (better than verbatim DVD/CD) do not expect much over fives years storage even in a controlled evironment without being touched. After about five years they start to degrade pretty fast.

Right on the money.

Librarians who deal with archives and now digital archives have essentially dismissed CD/DVD as an option. Having no good passive options at the moment (storage crystals anyone?), they have determined that the solution is modern day monks, also known as sysadmins -- put everything on RAID arrays and actively maintain them, copying to new systems as needed. Current thinking would be RAID 6. They have also come up with peer to peer distributed digital archives, whereby participating institutions store data for other libraries as well as their own. If a Library data center blows up, they can rebuild by collecting their data from other Libraries' archives. No more Alexandrias.

Non institutional ordinary people are flying more by the skin of their teeth, but, active archiving and backups seems to be the key (cloud storage may be a reasonable option for ordinary people). There are lots of references to be found through google, but it's a little hard to find the definitive reference I was looking for. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_preservation, and check some of the links at http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/dpm/dpm-eng/resources.html.

As a side note, most of the enterprise level backup software provides media migration capability -- that old DDS/2 is no longer viable? Migrate it to current media before it's too late. When that becomes old, migrate it again -- assuming, of course, that the data is still meaningful and you want to keep it.

But, if you expect to just put something in a time capsule and have it last without degradation or loss of data, good luck. Try acid free paper, or perhaps the titanium version of a vinyl record -- something dependent on fixed physical structure rather than electronic, magnetic, moving parts or lubricant.

That's what I do at home as well.

But quite another issue. I hope I don't hijack this trhead -- the question is related.

Imagine I have my books/pictures digitized in JPG and archived it on a real non-volatile media. Civilization gets lost in 2012 as per Nostradamus' predictions. When civilization is back on the same level as it is now (what a blessing!) my JPG archives are found. But unfortunately all Wiki pages and documentation about the JPG algorithm has been lost (it was stored on DVD)

Now, without any knowledge of the current JPG algorithm, but with plenty of files, would it be possible to reverse engineer the JPG algorithm and recover my images?

jlinkels

Pressed CD's may be the best choice. Unless the safe was fully EMI/RFI resistant I doubt any magnetic media would survive a solar burst or nuke. A pressed cd is a real metal image of a master that has been fixed to a plastic disk. If protected in a vacuum and away from any light the plastic would maybe last a few hundred years. The metal may last 500 or so.


A home burned cd/dvd is by far the worst. I know that from real life and real tests. It is an organic dye and decompressed in a few years.

One of the systems I used a long time ago was supposed to last like 100 years. It was magnetic doughnut memory core in a nuclear resistant case. Oddly they failed once in a while too.

No magnetic media would be secure. It is almost impossible to protect from radiation and that could degrade the magnetic media.

The space plaque was platinum and was physically engraved. It could last for maybe a few thousand million years if protected.

I forget why the ink on old documents last but one could still use "paper and ink". I forget the name of the ink being sold but it is supposed to last as long as the stock it was penned to.

If protected in a vacuum and away from light you might be right. Otherwise the metal disintegrates from the plastic.

jlinkels

"Pressed CDs": Can you buy the equipment to make them at home? Or order them made in small quantities?

I remember there was some company that made special durable storage media, but I can't find the link anymore.

It may be possible to purchase small runs. The master is what costs.


@H_TeXMeX_H if you are anything like me, brains are not that durable either. Hehee :) My brain is the worst media.

A cheap DVD from Wal Mart. It lasts a very long time... measured in dog years, that is. :D

If the world is going to end in Dec 2012 then it only has to last a few years?

Hi,

This is constructive to the thread how?Do not post in this manner again, you have been warned.

Maybe see:
http://www.gizmowatch.com/entry/japa...g-alternative/

I may have overestimated how long HDDs can last, it says 40 years, will change.

Hi,
From your link;
Look at the density! Now that is a Masked ROM with 2.5Tbits for eternity.
:hattip:

Stifling my comments on the wisdom of such time capsules, let me eliminate sata.

A friend of mine is IT Manager in a digital imaging place, and he routinely fills several hard disks with huge tiff files. He is careful, allowing devices to spin down before moving, etc. He has recently moved from ide to sata - his spec was: lowest price per Gb:-/. He noted a marked drop in reliability, and has had to up redundant copying accordingly.

Capacitors degrade. Metal rusts. No electronic equipment would last, nor mechanical stuff. Why not let their engineers do what patents force modern engineers to do anyhow, reinvent the wheel? Would the OP seriously want to pollute the future with mS windoze, and BSODs?

I would put the data on a cloud and prepay for the time needed. Then I would put put a hardcopy of the login information in the time capsule.

Hi,

That would be good if the cloud would insure that it would have the data available at a later date. Any system would be dependent on a data backup system. But that data may degrade over time if stored magnetically or even optically. Fixed state storage like ROM(masked or link type) will last for a long time.

This ROM is 2.5Tb and is masked. Still not a feasible storage for very large backup.
:hattip:

I recall an article a few month ago about libraries (national, regional and local) exploring the problem of long-term storage of electronic data (books? those last for hundreds of years if printed on acid-free paper). The consensus appears to be gold CD-R which cost at least $5+ each and are "guaranteed to last 300 years." Having been through laser-rot with LaserDisc's, unreadable mass-market music CD's, unwatchable mass-market DVD's I kind of wonder about the 300-year business (I'd probably assume, maybe 50 years, possibly 100, but I wouldn't bet the farm on either). From what I understand about gold archival media you've got a good shot at some decades, how many is questionable. I do know that if you arrange for storage in an old salt mine you've got a better chance of the things lasting quite a while -- they're dry, constant temperature, and not subject to much radiation (like cosmic rays that do penetrate you, the ground, steel, lead, and all sorts of stuff.

This discussion tickled memory of NASA's Voyager probes equipped with a gold-plated record (yeah, like pre-CD-ROM vinyl records) with pictographic instructions on how to read it right there in plain sight. Assuming a civilization that can actually see in the proper wavelength...

Anyway, hope this helps some.

Interestingly, Certain old books(not mentioning what purpose these books were for in view of moderator's comments) came down to us nearly complete on vellum, which is a leather parchment. The ones I have in mind (Mentioning no names)have indeed stood the test of 1600+ years. Sadly, I don't think electronic media could manage that.

"Most durable storage media" I have to ask myself what does that mean? Why would one need not only durable but MOST durable?

When I say the world will end in 2012 I am not only saying that in a half joking manner I also mean it in a real sense that does directly relate to the original post.


Since I now seem to have to explain what should be known to well educated people I will fully explain it here and to how all of it exactly relates to this post.

Overview.
Show recent historical doomsday dates, My relationship to some of those date. Decoding past data, Mayan calender. Decay of the earths magnetic field. Massive solar ejections.

Doomsday dates in recent times that I know of are 1994, 2000 and 2012. 1994 being based on a book held little worry for me. It tended to scare some people and may still be a cause. YTK was really a western problem of the original PC. 2000 is a date that not all civilizations and cultures even use. I retired from one of the largest computer companies before YTK and was 99.999% sure that no end of the world would happen because of this original bios clock issue. We even sold services, and made a bunch out of it. A real or even a perceived threat to civilization can or could cause a great deal of worry. One may be inclined to try to make a time capsule in order to move data to the next humans. OK, I was worried during the Cuban Missile deal but that didn't have a time line but it may have been the start of the original "time capsule" fad in the 60's ... man.

Decoding the past. If one wanted to make a capsule they would need to have it able to be decoded. As noted above what we have here is not what may be possible to be viewed. I could send a simple anything today but it may not be decoded. A fantastic show was decoding the past. The story of how the Mayan writing was decoded. (by a child no less). So your data has to be decoded if it is really durable. I was corrected in that pioneer did use a gold plated aluminum plaque to present various types of data. So the data has to be able to be decoded for any use. Rocks have been the standard it seems.

Mayan calender was finally decoded. It does in fact end in December 2012 as part of a progression. Some give the end of the world statement to it. I can't say I belive in future telling. I do know that the calender has no known way to be added to for 14 but other records show larger progressions. The series of progressions have no base to either add in a progression or make a super set but most Mayan data was lost due to the Spanish. Why the Mayan's left it at 13 that is unknown but still a valid reason to make a time capsule. The 13th progression ends on in Dec 2012.

Now we start getting to the meat of the truth to my statement. I have prior in the post been against magnetic media. In the past 50 years the earths magnetic field has started to decay and shift. In fact many places on the earth have no magnetic field or has become way off. This is shown on magnetic variation charts. Now exactly what would happen to any modern electronic society without a magnetic field has never been proven. Many thoughts on it suggest that electric generation and electric motor function may not work. Anyone with somewhat advanced knowledge of how an electro-magnetic field is created knows that it starts by the earths magnetic field. What would happen? Clearly a cause for concern based on real science and real data.

Lastly is the real threat to any electronic based magnetic storage. Massive solar ejections. Last time the Sun had this level as projected to occur was in the 1800's. Civilization was almost not effected by it then. Even though the bulk of the damage was to wiring other related hazards from fires were noted. Modern day thoughts on what may happen tend to deny the full effects in my opinion. What is real is that every year some damage may happen by the normal bursts or EMF and RFI the Sun puts out. If 2012 shows to be equal to or greater than the 1859 storm then not only the OP but every one on this post has a real reason to protect data due to real doomsday threat. In fact I can say that 2012 to me is as real as the Cuban Missile crisis. What doomsday prediction? Magnetic media on most parts of the planet is destroyed. I was in the Navy and trust me, we easily erased tapes and burned out tv's with fire control radar mile away. It may be that the entire electrical grid of major parts of the world are left in shambles. Problem there is every vehicle's computer was damaged, every factory's computers were damaged. There would be simply no way to fix it. Every electric and electronic device in vast areas may be rendered almost useless. Electric caused fires could rage for months over cities and open spaces. There would be no where to hide from such an event. No food production and storage to maybe a billion or so. Think of the Katrina deal instead of the size of a small state to the size of a continent.
Combine lack of an earths protective magnetic shield at the same time as a corneal blast may be a source of worry.

If not all that, one has to concede that a reasonable sized chunk of matter from space could end it all in a few seconds.


Do I think one should leave a time capsule for enjoyment? Sure. A family may enjoy digging up past memories. As to what the OP wanted for this time capsule would be that no, he did not intend it to be a family task.

Most durable means to me the end of the world deal. And worthy of doomsday survival.

Most of the optical disks I've recorded or been given over the years are now unreadable. To expand on what MacDawg mentioned...you can use a RAID 1 system. HDD's now are starting to use 3TB drives, but with SSD's your going to have to pay a lot to get more storage space.

There isn't one. The problem is that when digital media degrades, information is lost. A clay tablet can wear down, but still be readable. Paper can degrade and still be read, but when a DVD or hard drive degrades, bits of information just disappear.

DVD's/CD's: Supposedly decades for a good brand, but some say the degrade after months. I've got Verbatim CD's burned 10 years ago that work just fine. Kodak (and probably others) sells archival CD's that last (supposedly) 300 years, but you are you going to read it in that time?

These estimates of longevity are based on theory though, no one has actually had a burned CD for 50 years let alone 300 years. But, if you are certain there will be means of reading them (and unless civilisation collapses, there will be, or one can be made), then gold archival CD's are probably the best option.

All human made objects will when left alone, slowly convert back to their original state. Metal rusts, plastics degrade, dyes fade. It all goes back to dirt. Because gold is a precious metal it doesn't corrode, and it is already at its 'natural state' in an elemental form, therefore not going to be subject to the same ravages of entropy. Think of all the gold jewellery that still exists frorm thousands of years ago, yet iron objects have disappeared.

Ideally, I would literally etch data onto a gold surface, but thats kind of difficult. Next best thing is a gold CD, stored in an airtight container with no moisture and no light.

However, make multiple copies. That I think is most important. The data that I have retained for 15 years, even more, still exists because of multiple copies and transferring it from medium to medium. NEVER put all your digital eggs in the one storage basket. Make multiple copies and store them in different locations. All the books of antiquity exist because of copies and pieced together from copies.

a bit of a side note relevant to this thread but someone once said the 20th and now the 21st centuries (particularly starting with the late 20th century) have been the most documented centuries to date yet project the same time into the future as we have come from ancient times and archiologists from the future will have as much if not MORE difficulty deciphering our era then we do the egyptians, simply because technology advances so fast and leaves archived data on obsoleted mediums in the dust.

long story made short, durability is essentially irrelevant if there is nothing left to read the medium

that being said i would probably burn to more then one copy on more then one medium and if possible, store it in a vacuum to help prevent oxidation and decay, and leave a computer capable of reading the media with it (cheap laptop or something like it)

Oh, and I should mention. Parity files. Use par2 or dvdisaster. This allows you to lose some bits of data without losing the information completely. By adding some additional information during the archival process, you can lose up to a certian percentage of data and be able to 'resurrect' it.

This is an absolute necessity. In the last year I have begun to do things this way with my consumer grade stuff; it's better to set aside 10% of your DVD space for parity than lose your data forever. Well, at least you have an increased chance of avoiding the latter. I'm an insurance guy... why wouldn't this be a logical move? :D

/tongue in cheek
@jefro: We're drifting dangerously close to religion pondering the significance of the Mayan calendar.

In fact, no reasonable discussion of the possible reasons for a time capsule can take place fully without discussing the end (Including religious aspects). But let's pretend you (or your kid) survived an event that knocked us back so far we lost all the progress of recent centuries. Without batteries, petrol, or generated power. Today's consumer goods and archive material would be shiny useless junk. Somebody would have to wind a generator onto a watermill, and get close enough to your power supply before anything could be recovered. Even then any PC sent forward in time would fail because of the capacitors.It would be much more likely your cds would be used as frisbees until they smashed off some rock.

Do so many people really believe the world will end in 2012 just because it's a significant date on some old calendar?!?

What do you mean "discharge"? Flash memory is not like RAM with a built-in capacitor.

It's not, but they do discharge after a long time, at least that's what the wiki says. I think it's possible, although I've never tested it myself, they usually break before then anyway.

Hi,

The problem is that everyone misinterpret that the calendar ends in 2012. Loads of people misread into that as a end of the world as we know it. FUD!Not a significant date with modern day man unless a conspirator or doomsday believer. The Mayan calendar presented after the final date as winter solstice on the Mayan calendar. Therefore a new beginning after that date by their rituals.

Look at the calendar.
Cell degradation over time is a problem with modern flash and can be attributed to frequency of writes along with the level. A problem if not managed properly. Throw away device;
Flash is improving but there is a 'life' for retention. The referenced paper is rather dry reading but valid.
:hattip:

So each bit in a flash memory chip is like a little capacitor, and will drain over time?

Flash (usb pocket type) can be stated to act like a bunch of caps that would slowly diminish unless powered and that is different and you'd need to supply power until the unit is found and used. It has no physical change that secures it.

I doubt that the Mayan calender has any other interest than hype. Just a statistical oddity. More like the YTK deal. It is a number based worry with no real facts behind it. However you get enough nuts together and one should worry.

My concern is that we did survive the Cuban missile crisis. One hopes that and I believe that any number of humans would survive the predicted effects of any number of issues. I suspect the world would survive corneal flairs that reached and affected the earth. I believe that some power lines would be damaged in the year 2012 but the earth is a big place.

I suggested pressed cd's as they would seem to me to have features that protect against EMF/RFI.

Hi,

Simplistic but the general idea. Gate of the cell is the weak point when power is removed. Longer term without power & previous use of the flash cell will determine retention because of leakage through out the cell at the gate layer;
Simple definition but easily understandable.
HTH!
:hattip:

Parity... that certainly makes a lot of sense in a long-term storage situation like this. Question: Are there any actual /file systems/ that automatically store parity data? (With provided file-system recovery tools?) Quick googling said ext3 could be modified to store parity, but that is all I saw.

On a separate, but related note: With a compact digital storage device in the capsule, we could also store some paper-based material documenting the format of the digital data or any other pertinent details that might aid in future recovery.

Simpler is usually better. The less complex you make it, the more likely the chance of recovery. Sure, parity files aren't as transparent, but really, if you're going to insurance over ease of use, go separate parity files than a filesystem based one.

But if you want to store information, I still think etching into precious metals is the best (though expensive). I would also avoid using a file system (not necessary). A CD burned, with the ISO9660 specification printed or documented with it.


By the way, I don't believe the world will end in 2012. The worst that will happen, is that the Mayan version of Linux will suffer a Y2K like bug. I think there is a patch for that.

2012 is BS, just like Y2K. Probably hyped by the media to take eyes off of other things.

That's probably the only way, to copy the data to be saved over and over again, eternally, making sure that each copy survives long enough to be copied again. Any "static" storage will disintegrate in some way sooner or later, and 'later' doesn't usually mean more than a few hundred to a few thousand years. Small bits of information, such as "this skeleton apparently had two legs" can survive for millions of years if the conditions are good, but even then there is a significant amount of destruction that has already happened. In case of information, as in storing photographs or code or longer texts or such, even a slight data loss may corrupt a lot. Lots of data loss, due to disintegration of the medium it's stored on, means usually that only bits and pieces can be revived, which is not sufficient if lots of information is supposed to be stored. The destruction is due to how things work: natural processes such as chemical reactions and radioactive decay (which not only changes the original medium, but may change other media as well due to energy that is emitted in the reactions) will wreck any static media over time. Not to mention volcanoes, earthquakes, freezing and heating and such. The only way to go for a really long period would be to turn everything needed into information, and then copy that information around to (try to) keep it safe. This is a process that goes against the natural thermodynamic routes, meaning that it tries to preserve order, and therefore it requires energy. This means that when energy is not pumped into the system anymore (for example when people cease to exist and nobody is burning coal or running a nuclear power plant anymore), this method stops working and the information is (after some time) lost, again.

Quite on the same lines. But even though gold is a "precious metal [and so] it doesn't corrode", it doesn't mean it stays like that forever. The processes are simply slower with it, but will happen (due to all real systems having a finite probability of transferring from one state to another, for example at the atomic level). Gold too will be subject to the same "ravages of entropy" as the rest of things, it just lasts a bit longer than some "weaker" subjects. And it's still a game of luck: even though you can find gold pieces (jewellery, so you know it's more or less human made) that has survived for thousands of years, you must understand that not all such things have survived. Some of it has surely been lost, one way or another, and that means you can't rely on gold, or anything else for that matter, in the end. The only thing you can rely on is having a copy available always when one is lost, which again means you'll have to supervise the thing all the time somehow, and keep it fuelled.

Whatever the method, practically the storage place affects the result too. One would have to stick to a place that is stable (i.e. no earthquakes or molten lava flows or such), mostly non-radiative for the period of storage time, dry (moisture typically does bad things), cool (high temperature allows transfer of energy which may modify the surroundings), and so on. But how would you know if it stays like that for thousands or millions of years? The things we've found that are very old have been spared more or less accidentally, not intentionally. The biggest problem might not be the medium, after all, but the place of storage.

No offence, but:

So it's "one joke & you're out" atmoshphere nowadays? Where's the sense of humour? I get it when people are warned for saying they're gonna [...] up everyone, but not if something completely harmless is posted. If every post should be "constructive", we could also say every post should be constructive enough (for example "more constructive than not constructive at all" and then "a bit more constructive than that, please"), which means that some people would get kicked out just because they weren't helpful enough. Pointing out, for example, that a time capsule should only last a couple of years if the world is going to end next year is quite constructive in my opinion, because you couldn't possibly prove that the end of the world is not going to happen next year. If you could, you could see the future, which is rather bizarre.

No offence, but:

Do not forget to look at both sides of the mirror. I agree a little humor keeps an interest in a thread but from the other side too much could ruin a thread or be miss taken and offend.

I'm sure there are other ways, but beyond our technical abilities.

One way could be to invent a time machine. You can SEND the information to whenever you like.

The tragedy of what happened at the library of Alexandria shows that you can't put all your eggs in one basket. Copy, copy, copy.
DNA breaks down fairly quickly, but there are genes circulating millions of year old, because of copies made. A self replicating system, like a cell or nano bot containing a DNA like sequence of the information could do.

But to store information today, I think what I've suggested is perhaps the best for digital. But information as a shelf life. I'd like to keep my photos for as long as possible, but they only need to last long enough to ensure that I can make a copy to pass to kids. I dont need them to last 1 million years, what are they going to do with it?

There probably is a lot of lost information from pre-history, but was it of any use? Probably only a curiosity, nothing more.

Our entire civilisation, given enough time, just wont be important. There will come a time when no one, or nothing will care.

This was not a mistake on Moromendas01's part. If it was, he's had over two months to fix it. He very clearly did it on purpose, to: a) post his spam sig, and b) cover this tracks. To cover his tracks, he plagiarized a previous post in the thread. For the entire body of his own post.

That would be the hardest part is the container. A coffee can would not suffice. If you were here at the beach nothing short of thick stainless steel would work with a triple seal.

Hi,

Moromendas01's has not participated since 3-15-11.

We are handling the situation(s). Thanks for the input.

Hi,
Agree that the container(s) type along with the interior conditioning would be a priority.

A matryoshka principle would work; That way each container would have a seal for condition of the contained information. The level of containers would depend on the type or importance of the time capsule.

After skimming the thread, it seems we are agreed that normal dvd/cd are the worst material - they degrade without even being used - as was confirmed by a french study - 10 years max, but normally, as most of us have experienced, considerbaly less.

Engraved material seems to be best - hey, you can still play the old phonographs and 78's. There is a huge variety of material available for engraving - clay has been mentioned and the most expensive, gold, is one of the metals most resistant to oxidation etc. - even though it is a somewhat soft metal.

The danger of putting all ones eggs in one basket has been pointed out - so copy, copy and distribute.

Engraved material means also, that unlike chemical (cd/dvd) and magnetic material, one could reproduce and transfer the information to low tech material. The chinese were the masters of this, as was Gutenberg - engraved stuff can be "printed", i.e transferred to short or longer term optical material for general use.

But CD's and DVD's were an irresponsible swindle and I really hope that nobody put their family photos on dvd's expecting them to last until their grand-cchildren grew up.

I have got rid of all my dvd's and am investing heavily in external disks. Magnetic material isn't perfect, I know I must copy them periodically. But I hope that someone will come up with a permanent form of storage in a Henry Ford format - i.e. affordable.