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04-14-2021, 04:40 PM
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#1
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LQ Newbie
Registered: Jul 2012
Posts: 17
Rep: 
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Looking for small , inexpensive , fanless , P.C. for live Linux experimentation ......
Non - UEFI ?
I like experimenting with live Linuxes via USB .
With pre UEFI I could set the BIOS to boot from
USB first , and go from distro to distro .
The newer UEFI models ( even though there is
a supposed ' legacy setting ' ) seem to not be
able to work this way . Does anyone know of a
small ( mini ? ) P.C. that still uses BIOS ,
or does in fact have a working ' legacy ' mode ?
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04-14-2021, 06:47 PM
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#2
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LQ Addict
Registered: Nov 2013
Location: Tokyo
Distribution: Mostly Ubuntu and Centos
Posts: 6,316
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Raspberry Pi and other single-board computers are certainly inexpensive, fanless (most of them) and don't use UEFI. Not sure if they use BIOS though, but you can experiment by formatting an SD card.
On the other hand, UEFI computers allow you to boot from USB. Otherwise all those live media would be out of business.
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04-14-2021, 07:43 PM
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#3
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LQ Newbie
Registered: Jul 2012
Posts: 17
Original Poster
Rep: 
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> Raspberry Pi and other single-board computers are certainly inexpensive,
> fanless (most of them) and don't use UEFI. Not sure if they use BIOS though,
> but you can experiment by formatting an SD card.
I should have mentioned Intel . My main P.C. is Raspberry Pi .
Not that many distros to play with .
> On the other hand, UEFI computers allow you to boot from USB.
But do not allow USB as first boot choice .
> Otherwise all those live media would be out of business.
Live media works ( again first boot choice ) best on pre UEFI
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04-14-2021, 08:22 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Registered: Aug 2016
Posts: 3,345
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hitsware
Live media works ( again first boot choice ) best on pre UEFI
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That is a personal opinion (although most UEFI systems do not allow the USB to be first boot choice for security reasons). After all, if USB were the first boot choice then all someone would need would be a flash drive and all the enterprise security would be gone when the PC was powered on.
For me live media works very well on all systems I have tried, both UEFI and legacy boot.
Most systems work well with USB boot, the only real difference is how you select it. Most linux live images can be booted either way, and many of the UEFI BIOSes give you both selections to pick from on the same image (as long as the BIOS is not set to UEFI only).
Last edited by computersavvy; 04-14-2021 at 08:26 PM.
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04-14-2021, 08:35 PM
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#5
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Moderator
Registered: Mar 2008
Posts: 22,284
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I'd guess most of the modern computers allow one to use some sort of emulated (old style) bios. The problem is that it may be named some odd deal. Usually CSM but you may have to disable some setting then reboot then change it. Then some onboard things may not be available to user like embedded storage.
I have a few Liva X2's that I use. Fanless, not an Atom where you have to fool with 32/64 bit loaders. They need a M2 card if you want to access storage but boot correctly from usb.
They do have a problem with increasing efiboot entries so you have to remove then once in a while. I'd think most of the Intel Celeron are possible choices.
The prices of the new mini computers has gone up in the last few years. No more $80 models.
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04-14-2021, 08:59 PM
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#6
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LQ Sage
Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Saint Amant, Acadiana
Distribution: Gentoo ~amd64
Posts: 7,675
Rep: 
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Don't know about small and fanless, a few years ago I got myself an i3 based refurbished PC from eBay for $99 shipped (Dell Optiplex 790). With 8 GB of RAM and 500 GB drive it was perfect for my Hackintosh project.
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04-14-2021, 10:57 PM
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#7
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LQ Addict
Registered: Nov 2013
Location: Tokyo
Distribution: Mostly Ubuntu and Centos
Posts: 6,316
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UEFI allows configuring any boot source as the default. You can even configure it while your OS is up and running, then reboot into the other boot source. See the efibootmgr command, and for an example: https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=251058 (random internet search result).
Last edited by berndbausch; 04-14-2021 at 10:59 PM.
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04-15-2021, 04:43 AM
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#8
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LQ Guru
Registered: Sep 2011
Location: Upper Hale, Surrey/Hants Border, UK
Distribution: One main distro, & some smaller ones casually.
Posts: 5,781
Rep: 
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To get a regular fanless PC desktop box will cost about £200 new.
This one is similar to what I use - https://www.novatech.co.uk/pc/range/nspireminib10.html
But if all you want to do is experiment with lots of different distros, just buy a pre used older machine, but you won't get fanless.
Nearly all machines made in the last decade or two with a USB2 socket will boot from USB.
(Some ITX motherboards were very quiet, might be worth a look.)
Last edited by fatmac; 04-15-2021 at 04:45 AM.
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04-15-2021, 12:07 PM
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#9
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LQ Newbie
Registered: Jul 2012
Posts: 17
Original Poster
Rep: 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by berndbausch
UEFI allows configuring any boot source as the default. You can even configure it while your OS is up and running, then reboot into the other boot source. See the efibootmgr command, and for an example: https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=251058 (random internet search result).
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That example only lists UEFI USB .
In fact most distros are not UEFI .
More and more , but not most .
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04-15-2021, 12:13 PM
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#10
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LQ Newbie
Registered: Jul 2012
Posts: 17
Original Poster
Rep: 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatmac
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But will not boot from non-UEFI USB .... Right ?
Or be able to set USB as first boot choice ?
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04-15-2021, 03:58 PM
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#11
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Moderator
Registered: Mar 2008
Posts: 22,284
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Find something you think will work.
Go to the manual for your choice.
Look at the bios settings.
Things that may affect it could be the OS versions choice.
Secure Boot disable first.
Disable efi video first.
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04-15-2021, 04:12 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Registered: Aug 2016
Posts: 3,345
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hitsware
That example only lists UEFI USB .
In fact most distros are not UEFI .
More and more , but not most .
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Actually, most of todays distros are UEFI. Many (if not most) also boot legacy. Some (very few) are legacy boot only.
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04-15-2021, 06:34 PM
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#13
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LQ Newbie
Registered: Jul 2012
Posts: 17
Original Poster
Rep: 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by computersavvy
Actually, most of todays distros are UEFI.
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O.K........
But the distro being UEFI doesn't make the PC boot on it.
I.E...Still need to be able to set for USB boot first.
( for my purpose )
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04-15-2021, 07:55 PM
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#14
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Moderator
Registered: Mar 2008
Posts: 22,284
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Most modern computers don't boot to a usb choice as such. They are actually booting to a hard drive order choice. Each computer may have some oddity. No bios is standard.
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04-15-2021, 09:28 PM
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#15
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LQ Newbie
Registered: Jul 2012
Posts: 17
Original Poster
Rep: 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jefro
Most modern computers don't boot to a usb choice as such.
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I guess if I want to pursue it , I ' ll
have to go used .... Or NOS ?
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