Looking for new Desktops to run under Linux

CurrentWave · 09-21-2021, 06:18 PM

I'm not sure where to post this, hoping this is the place.

I just had to return a new ACER, booting from USB was disabled/not allowed. Now I'm looking at 2 Dell Inspirons 3891 that may have to go back too, they only boot in UEFI, and so no options for DVD drive or USB. They do show boot options for IPv4 & IPv6 - What?

I've been lucky up to now installing Linux on old laptops, old desktops. I want one desktop to run Proxmox (SP?) and play around on. The other for a simple home PC.

**I found this: posted 2019 on Dell Community**
EGACY Booting is no longer supported past SKYLAKE.

32 BIT OS and Drivers are no longer supported by anyone.

64 BIT windows 10 or Linux in UEFI mode is the only thing supported going forward.

This means ancient Linux that uses GRUB/MSDOS MBR booting is also not supported.

CSM with MBR legacy booting is gone as is support for windows 7.

The good news is that the Current UBUNTU works on current systems as well as ancient ones.
---------------------------------------

So does this mean I will need to learn a new way of installing Linux? I've only read about the one: booting ios from USB stick - can anyone point me to other methods for installing under UEFI boot?

And good "Hardware for running Linux" info? I find the Linux systems very high end and targeting gammers. Is there a middle ground?

I really am confused as to why finding this info is proving to be so hard.

~Thanks for your thoughts on this topic

enigma9o7 · 09-21-2021, 06:41 PM

What makes you believe that usb booting was disabled/not allowed?

Almost all linux iso from almost every distro for past decade or so support UEFI.

Plug in the USB drive with ISO properly written to it, go to boot menu, select it, boot it, then install.

Timothy Miller · 09-21-2021, 07:16 PM

I know of VERY few machines made in the last decade that can't boot linux from USB.

CurrentWave · 09-21-2021, 07:20 PM

Quote:

What makes you believe that usb booting was disabled/not allowed?

I could not disable secure boot in the bios - so I spent most of the day on Acer forums, and typing in what I was seeing, until I hit on a post with the same issue and found out that that model of Acer did not allow one to use another OS other than the one it came with - period. Some kind lock, I do not remember now since that was last month.

Fast forward to these two new desktops:
As I said, not only will they only boot in UEFI mode, but they do not offer CD or USB boot options, they do offer IPv4 and IPv6 - ?.

And yes I tried my bootable Linux Mint 20.2 USB thumb drive, which I just used to boot up another older Dell, the system starts right up as though there was no bootable medium in the drive - just like the Acer...... So they are going back.

I'm sure there is some tiny notification somewhere to let one know when a PC is locked to it's OS of choice, but I cannot find it for the life of me. Dell tech support would not discus the topic of installing a different OS.

Anyone else run into this?

Timothy Miller · 09-21-2021, 07:27 PM

Secure boot doesn't stop linux from booting unless you're running one of the few OS's that don't support it. Even the eternally outdated and archaic Debian supports booting secure boot.

No Dell that comes with Windows made in AT LEAST a decade doesn't allow booting other OS's. Same with HP (again, Windows pc's), Lenovo (same).

DavidMcCann · 09-22-2021, 10:53 AM

Firstly, all modern systems will boot from usb. You may have to have it plugged in before you can choose it, but it will work. The Acer one would if you asked it the right way: https://www.ninjastik.com/support/acer-laptop-boot-usb/

UEFI relates to the hard drive, not to the installation medium. Any Linux you're likely to want will recognise a UEFI drive and use it properly. The only difference is that you need an extra partition, the ESP partition, formated in vfat and about 0.5 GB in size and set as bootable.

You can certainly disable secure boot on Dells. Their official statement is "… you can disable secure boot … [but] Dell does not support dual boot or any other OS that is not shipped with the system." Which just means that if you install Linux, don't ask their support service for help.

SlowCoder · 09-22-2021, 12:22 PM

Do you remember what model Acer it was? Is it possible it was a ChromeOS machine, or one with a crippled BIOS/UEFI? I think that statement about Grub not working is a fallacy, as many modern Linux distros use Grub2.

CurrentWave · 09-22-2021, 07:50 PM

Okay, I finally got things working after spending many hours. The information was in pieces, but as I had a success I took notes knowing I'll have to do this again

The bios settings of these newer Dell machines look so very different than what I'm used to, so here are the steps for setting up Linux on a new Dell 3891 using UEFI mode -

1. During boot up - Press F12 to enter the bios (Dell)- and upgrade your bios firmware.
The system will reboot after.
2. Enter BIOS again, and disable secure boot
3. Make sure there is no 'legacy' selected anywhere, Save/Apply, and Exit
4. With the computer off, insert your Linux ios USB flash drive
(search how to make one from your distros home page)
5. Turn on the power, and enter the UEFI boot menu F2
(F2 instead of F12 for regular bios)
6. Find the USB drive in the boot menu, and move it up in first position. Save/Apply

7. Disable fastboot Save/Apply
8. Disks on AHCI Save/Apply
9. no CSM (found in security) Save/Apply
(with this new bios I had to 'Apply' each new change, or they won't save on Exit)
10. I would re-apply the secure boot feature. Not sure about the CSM....

Steps 1 - 6 are just to boot from USB (if you have a bootable OS USB to boot from)
Steps 7 - 9 are so your Linux install can make partitions, copy files, etc. I got a Manjaro install errors and so I had to add these bios steps to finally complete my install.

I hope this is helpful to someone else searching for answers.

pan64 · 09-23-2021, 02:59 AM

in that case you might want to mark the thread solved

Timothy Miller · 09-23-2021, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CurrentWave

Okay, I finally got things working after spending many hours. The information was in pieces, but as I had a success I took notes knowing I'll have to do this again

The bios settings of these newer Dell machines look so very different than what I'm used to, so here are the steps for setting up Linux on a new Dell 3891 using UEFI mode -

1. During boot up - Press F12 to enter the bios (Dell)- and upgrade your bios firmware.
The system will reboot after.
2. Enter BIOS again, and disable secure boot
3. Make sure there is no 'legacy' selected anywhere, Save/Apply, and Exit
4. With the computer off, insert your Linux ios USB flash drive
(search how to make one from your distros home page)
5. Turn on the power, and enter the UEFI boot menu F2
(F2 instead of F12 for regular bios)
6. Find the USB drive in the boot menu, and move it up in first position. Save/Apply

7. Disable fastboot Save/Apply
8. Disks on AHCI Save/Apply
9. no CSM (found in security) Save/Apply
(with this new bios I had to 'Apply' each new change, or they won't save on Exit)
10. I would re-apply the secure boot feature. Not sure about the CSM....

Steps 1 - 6 are just to boot from USB (if you have a bootable OS USB to boot from)
Steps 7 - 9 are so your Linux install can make partitions, copy files, etc. I got a Manjaro install errors and so I had to add these bios steps to finally complete my install.

I hope this is helpful to someone else searching for answers.

Just a couple notes.

With MOST OS's nowadays, you do not need to disable secure boot, MOST now support it so you won't even notice it.

If not dual booting w/ Windows, you actually can leave fastboot on, it only causes issues when dual booting with Windows. If dual booting, yes, disable or it will cause headaches.

Dell (and HP, Lenovo, Acer, Asus that I've used) allows you to directly boot from alternative UEFI options in the F12 (or whatever the OEM uses) boot menu, no need to enter setup, move to the top, then exit. You can just go into the boot menu and select it.

obobskivich · 09-24-2021, 03:30 PM

Also you'll need CSM enabled depending on add-in hardware present in the machine - if you're using only what came on the original motherboard and all add-in devices support UEFI it can stay off, but many older expansion cards will require CSM support to work. Wikipedia summarizes it well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unifie...ce#CSM_booting