IMHO, If you're looking for quality sound, avoid Creative. In a nutshell, the hardware just wasn't there for years and they ended up with massive windows drivers. I got suckered into one, and found a kernel note in Documentation/sound telling me in no uncertain terms exactly how bad their e31371 chip was.

Start with the sampling rate. Chances are if they gave the soundcard away, it wasn't worth much. You can get soundcards with 192khz sampling rate. Go after them.

Next, turn to the speakers, which imho are a matter of taste.

People who still prefer a valve amp (adding about 10% THD) should be listened to politely, and totally ignored.

That said, I run a sucky intel laptop sound, with crappy speakers and don't care. I know what good sound is, I've got better things to do than go chasing it.

I don't know your experience with linux. You might be a long time user or a newbie, tried just one distro or many, have an old cheap sound card or the best one made, etc. Having just signed on to this forum then ranting with this type of post about something is just that, a rant!! and certainly will not gain you any fans or supporters.

If your concern is sound quality, as in you might be an audiophile, then I might suggest you focus on good quality sound equipment instead of whining about linux. Sound equipment ranges from the source (file types) to codecs to hardware converters (digital to analog) to amplifiers to speakers (or headphones) and any weakness at any point affects output quality.

Get a life instead of whining.

Just some experience with various cards:

Creative:
- SB Live! all seem to work flawlessly in any OS I've tried - they're on the supported list for FreeBSD, and seem to work just as well in linux (they also work nicely in various versions of Windows). There are concerns about SRC and general quality on these, and they're quite dated, but they work 'well enough' depending on your needs, and some of them do surround sound analog outputs.
- SoundBlaster based on 'SoundCore 3D' all work swimmingly in linux, and have official kernel suport in more recent (I think 5.x) kernels. I use a ZxR in one of my desktops (it runs Xubuntu) and I've had no issues with it, or its daughterboard (it doesn't even have the 'resume from sleep' bug that sometimes happens in Windows). I've tested out my Recon3D card as well (which is a little bit cheaper model), and that works just fine (but is currently in a Windows box).
- Audigy and X-Fi are the 'nightmares' that people seem to dislike, but even in Windows those cards can be pokey. I honestly would avoid these cards in any modern OS - they will work fine in WindowsXP (and Audigy in Windows98), but even in Windows 7 or 10 these can be pretty shaky in terms of stability/functionality. They really are from 'another era' and are predicated on a lot of different assumptions about how audio works on a PC.

C-Media:
- This is your Asus/Razer/Sondigo/Auzentech/etc cards, and these generally work great in every OS - Windows, Linux, and BSD. I have a CMI8788-based Razer and some lesser card from Asus (its a cheapo HHHL PCI card) and both work to the limits of their hardware. Something to note about that qualifier: a LOT of the 'advanced features' on C-Media cards (like Dolby/DTS/etc features, simulated surround, EQ, etc) are software packages built for Windows, so unlike the Creative cards above that do some/most of those things in hardware (and in the case of the ZxR that's all exposed in alsamixer just fine), none of that will translate to *nix because you aren't running the C-Media/Asus/Razer/etc application suite. But in terms of 'it will do a nice 7.1 output' or 'you can get A/52 over SPDIF' or whatnot, yeah it works just fine. Note that physical hardware (in terms of what ports/circuits/etc) varies between manufacturers - some include dedicated mic preamps, headphone amps, digital I/O, etc and others do not, and you have to pay attention to that vs what exists on the chipset itself.

VIA:
- Probably the most universally compatible soundcards ever made. I've only used M-Audio built boards, but these work literally everywhere - Linux, BSD, Windows, macOS, etc. Everything just works, and works consistently whether in M-Audio's driver blob (Windows, macOS) or alsamixer (which will mirror 1:1 the settings M-Audio's driver exposes for the most part) in linux/BSD/etc. The downside is I think these are all PCI cards (I don't think there's any PCIe boards), and they're all probably pretty old at this point (like coming up on 20 years old 'pretty old').

Realtek:
- This is a lot of your onboard sound stuff, and seems to work okay. Implementations vary wildly from motherboard to motherboard, and chipset to chipset - in some cases everything 'just works' but in others (especially on laptops I tend to find) lots of things don't work or don't work as expected/advertised. For example on my laptop, the mic simply does not exist in linux.


Overall I would probably look at the SoundCore Creative cards if you want an add-in board these days, since everything 'just works' in linux, and they also have good/stable Windows support (seriously 'night and day' improvement over X-Fi and Audigy, especially in post-kmixer Windows (e.g. Vista+)) if you need to dual-boot, and they're available as PCIe cards with decent build quality. If you have a PCI slot and need universal compatibility everywhere, VIA-based M-Audio cards are really nice, if you can find one. C-Media-based cards are great if you can live without all of the 'killer features' that they advertise for Windows users. All of that said, the original post mentions HTPC use, and I can tell you for my HTPC setups I'm either using basic USB audio (since a lot of newer gear seems to accept that, and its a standard across Windows/linux/mac), or HDMI via my graphics card (and I've had this work just fine with all three vendors - Intel, nVidia, and AMD), and that works just dandy and means no add-on card (my 'big' living room HTPC does still have an M-Audio card in it, but that's mostly because I can't come up with a better use for a PCI card in a PCIe world).

Specific cards/types of devices I would avoid:

- USB audio devices that do multi-channel. These generally do not comply with the USB Audio spec, and rely on proprietary drivers in order to do n.1 or some other features. For example the Creative Extigy series.

- Any soundcard with HDMI. These were/are relatively rare and came out in the mid-late '00s right before nVidia/ATi started shipping working HDMI audio solutions on their graphics cards, and the idea was to pass-thru the graphics card into the soundcard, and end up with a 'complete' HDMI audio+video solution. These were pokey in Windows, and as far as I know are mostly abandoned by their developers, so I doubt the features would work with linux (or honestly even modern Windows 10) as a result. They are also kind of pointless these days, as even low-end GPUs do just fine with HDMI audio (like Intel IGPs or basic nVidia/AMD cardS).

Stuff I would be unsure about (and reasons why):

- Analog Devices sound cards. I remember a few motherboards with Analog Devices built-in audio, and this was generally very unstable (often to the point of being unusable) in Windows. I have no idea how this would or would not translate to *nix, but I'd certainly not buy something based on the presence of an Analog Devices chipset.

- FireWire audio in general - at one time there was support in linux for this (at least for some devices), but I think the whole thing has been largely abandoned both by hardware vendors and software developers, so while you can probably get some really good deals on retired studio hardware (most of this stuff will be pro audio, not gamer/HTPC fare), who knows if you can get it to work. IF it works though, it can be supremely nice stuff in terms of the hardware. Of course you'd need FireWire (usually FW400) ports on your machine available as well.

Agreed, some say Creative also lacks output quality to our ears.
Take a look at the list of working Creative models I posted, almost all of them have missing features under ALSA.

I think Asus truly pioneer the market, all non-USB audiocards are manufactured with 192kHz and have full & excellent Linux support.

We require however, to get more working models on Asus's list, it's not updated since Kernel 3.8.

My life is Music, and it's not complete without Linux.

Sorry for the rudeness, I edited my post's intro.
Following it I provided guidance of value for those who are looking for cards.

It was because just recently my audiocard became extinguished from its life and it's a hard effort to find a working model
under ALSA among 150 products that fits budget and stability.

Audiocards suffer the preconception of not being an essential component of a PC build and most people think they won't even
notice a difference. If you sit and listen to all your favorite songs, you'll begin to notice the richness in details and much more.
It's an essential piece of hardware for audio production, let's say Ubuntu Studio.

I wouldn't call myself an Audiophile when these people spend an absurd amount of money on speakers and hardware, but don't
always get the best results, really.
I'm more of an 'audio aficionado', I can hear a needle falling on a Transformers factory.

From my experience the less you convert, I'd say do nothing, the original sound created in the first place, the better. No DACs and amplifiers,
Flac and .wav are excellent, just an audiocard and a good set of speakers between that, 7.1 or 5.1 surround feel, preferably.

I'm impressed, you got serious amount of time spent and knowledge of cards, nice.
Thank you for contribution, it will count to readers.

May we know specifically what is your area of interest for your gear? HTPCs?

Well, Realtek is the great onboard chipset that comes with 98% of pre-built computers, motherboards and laptops.
Usually they are weak in output, but will never fail you.

I think FreeBSD have better functionality with Creative cards, what does it use instead of ALSA?
I'm surprised to see this rate of success, taking a look at

https://www.alsa-project.org/wiki/Ma...-Creative_Labs

where everything has missing features.
SB Live! models works well, but not other products and there are several of them.

Where ALSA prevails with Asus and C-Media, I think FreeBSD lacks support.
I don't care the artificiality of software suits, just a straight wire on the card does the job for me.
Generally people say Creative cards are better for Gaming and Asus for media, I absolutely stay with music and Asus.

My Asus Xonar D2 is the first soundcard released by Asus in 2008 and I bought it in 2018. It's not old at all when it has
excellent features that are still being used today in Blu-Rays like 7.1 audio, 192/23 kHz Full Duplex HD and more. It sounds like... heaven.
And it's PCI, doesn't cause any hassle.
I'm really saddened it's gone.

I think my theory is right that if at least the chipset is present on ALSA's list, the audiocard may work even if not listed in detail.
I found 3 recent reviews in Amazon from guys who say the Asus Xonar AE works well under Ubuntu 18.

I'll take my shot on that, and if doesn't work, well I can always return it back to the seller

I haven't owned a removable PCI soundcard in many years. I don't own a computer that would accept one. I have a Xonar U3, and it's a good piece of hardware, but I can't tell any difference between it and the built-in Intel card on my NUC. I run my computer audio into an external amplifier, to passive speakers, so the amp (an old Onkyo that I keep because it has multiple inputs including a phono) does most of the work. The speakers are probably more important than the soundcard anyway. I have some decent speakers that were a birthday gift from my children, so my computer audio is pretty good. Certainly good enough for my old ears.

Again, you have to consider how many of these 'features' are software or hardware - a lot of the DSP-accelerated boards are designed for DirectSound 3D HW ("DS3DHW") which assumes a Windows-only model, but even on Windows that interface is deprecated (it has been for about 10 years). Most things like EQ, SVM, etc are not hardware features, they're driver features.

Asus isn't relaly doing anything 'pioneering' - most (all?) of their non-USB cards are C-Media based, and work as well as other C-Media based boards (that is to say, they have good support). Razer, Sondigo, Auzen, etc all fit into this too.

Basically 'everything' - some are in an HTPC role, some do other things. I use computers for most audio playback for convenience (vs CDs or LPs or whatever).


That page looks super dated - nearly none of the products listed on it are even made anymore, and many of them were made/sold in the mid-90s or early-00s.

See here:
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...tem&px=MTEwNTg
https://www.reddit.com/r/SoundBlaste..._linux_driver/
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...ster-ZxR-Linux
http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/k...9.3/07093.html

Note that I was mistaken - kernel support for SoundCore has existed a lot longer than I thought, it was just the ZxR that lagged (and I think this was probably due to the testers not having one - they're somewhat pricey).

I would not expect any modern system to be using an AWE, SB128, Ensoniq, Extigy, Audigy, etc - these are all very old cards.

'Gaming' or 'Music' is kind of a marketing thing that has been exploited very aggressively by 'new' PC audio companies, to brand all of the existing on-market products as 'for gaming only' and therefore 'unwashed masses' as they push whatever new product. It either measures/performs well or it doesn't, and what it says on the box matters not one iota. I'm not at all trying to be an apologist for the bad old days of Live! and Audigy and their shaky drivers, but I wouldn't put too much stock into the marketing literature for most audio gear. The SoundCore stuff seems to measure decently from what I've read, although off-hand I don't have a stack of links. I know the Asus card (the D2) you mention also measures well.

From what I remember of trying to take my 8788 card into BSD it was not particularly fun - I ended up just accepting SB Live! as 'good enough' after a point with that project. If I remember right (and I could be mis-remembering - this was a few years ago) there is a paid OSS driver that supports C-Media in BSD, but I wasn't keen on buying a driver licence.

They released an updated version of that card on PCIe, called the D2X, which should work with newer mainboards that lack PCI slots. From what I remember it's the exact same board just with a PCI to PCIe bridge chip for compatibility. There are some other Xonar cards for PCIe as well (they have a HHHL PCIe card, I forget what its called though). But I do agree with you here: PCIe options are few and far between, especially at the high end and that offer surround sound - the ZxR and D2X are probably the best two examples I can think of. By contrast I can probably list half a dozen (or more) PCI cards.

If you can figure out what chipset is on the board that can help gauge support - apart from Creative, everyone is using someone else's chipset these days - usually C-Media on newer cards (although older cards may also have VIA or (in some weird cases) Creative chipsets). So for example searching "will Razer AC-1 work in linux" is probably a lot less results than "will C-Media CMI8788 work in linux." Asus was (maybe still is) paying to have the chips re-labeled for them at the C-Media factory (I think Razer actually did this too, at least review pictures show this, but I don't feel like crawling under my desk to tear my tower apart and confirm it haha), from what I remember the CMI8788 became 'AV200' and one of the lesser-channel (5.1 vs 7.1) versions became 'AV100' - I think that's CMI8738. I know C-Media also has some 'new' chipsets that are likely just PCIe variants of the PCI chips (which isn't really a problem for audio - unless you're doing like a huge multi-track DAW, PCI has enough bandwidth), so even their naming scheme is not super clear. Of course a lot of newer soundcards have cosmetic shrouds on them, so it may not be possible to figure out what chipset its using without having the card in-hand where you can inspect it.

ALSA lists only Hardware related issues like 24-Bit, volume controls, SPDIF, etc.
Yes, very old indeed. Looks like they dropped support for Creative and favored C-Media.

Wow, that ZxR look hulky and absurdly expensive. Is it worth the cost?


There's the Usb U5 and U7 cards, and 2 more older models. I'm not an Asus cover boy, but isn't comparing Asus to Sondigo, Auzen and even Razer like Asus MoBos vs. AsRock, MSI? Despite the same chipset, for all other components of the cards Asus has a strong reputation of the highest quality and solidness on the market.


Even worse, it's was created some 10 years ago and they release it slowly to make customers spend cash every year for updated models.


Soon I'll send a feedback of my new card.

I've never seen a valve amp that added anything close to 10% THD. More like 2%.

And it really matters what kind of distortion we're talking about. Valve-based amplifiers primarily add 2nd harmonic distortion to the output, which sounds "soft" and "natural" to our ears. In fact, some studios have been known to artificially add 2nd harmonic distortion to recordings for this very reason.

The 3rd and 5th harmonics, on the other hand, sound awful. These odd harmonics comprise the bulk of the distortion added by modern amplifiers, and even though the THD is significantly lower (0.2%-0.1%), it may still sound subjectively worse. The "distortion" effect in Audacity can add various types of even or odd harmonics to a signal. Try it out and see (hear) for yourself which type of distortion sounds worse at which levels.

In my personal experience, all PC sound cards are plagued by hum and switching noise to a lesser or greater degree. An external DAC with an optical connection is really the only way to get rid of this entirely.

In the 1960s & 1970s, the figure was 10%. Ferrite was basically unknown, the art of winding a transformer was never learned. Iron cores introduced their own eddy currents. 2% is actually good.

As for the rest, I'm no audiophile. I left this stuff out and went industrial. The standard sample card sampling rate imho is a killer. The curse of the ISA bus still lingers in sound. I see there's 192khz sound cards now