Linux problems with motherboard chipsets?
 

I'm researching topic to decide which is the best motherboard to buy for my legacy build, avoid incompatibilities, and determine what expansion cards are needed. Chipsets are:

Nvidia nforce 720D
AMD 770
AMD SB710
Realtek 8111C
8111D
8111C/D(L)
ITE IT8720
T.I. TSB43AB23
JMicron JMB362

I welcome comments or documentation on any known Linux problems connected to these chipsets. Also, I'd be interested in patches, workarounds, etc., provided implementation is within reach of a Linux newbie (i.e. extensive command line work like kernel modds would be outside my skill level). Thanks.

I used a Gigabyte GA-MA770-UD3 with Linux for quite some time without any problems. This motherboard uses most of the components you are asking for.

AM2+/AM3 isn't what I would call 'legacy' yet.

Both will work, I wouldnt get the nForce 720D if you can have an AMD 770 (though to be honest, I wouldnt bother with AMD 770 either, might as well get a current 970 board).

Southbridge for a 7XX and some 8XX AMD chipsets. Works fine, apart from the very annoying to me USB flash drive bug....

Variants on the realtek 8111 gigabit networking chip. Works.

Super I/O chip for hardware monitoring and a fan speed controller. Works.

IEE/1394A/'FireWire' controller chip. Should work, dont know for sure, and do you really need firewire anyway?

SATAII controller chip. Works..but please dont use it, they are awful and the drivers for both windows and linux are dodgy. Use the chipset SATA ports instead.

Yes, its one of seven motherboard choices on my parts list. Great to know it has no problems, and if chosen, I'll not have to look for expansion cards. Thanks!

Thanks for all the great info! In what way is AMD 770 better than nforce 720D? Need to know that before I kick nforce board off my list.

Do you have a link to more info on this "USB flash drive bug"? Never yet ran across any mention of it.

Yes, I really want Firewire and eSATA, since USB3.0 and SATA6 is out of reach. Any way to find out if firewire controller chip works or not? If not, I need to look for firewire PCI/PCIe expansion card.

I'm newbie so not sure what you mean by "use chipset SATA ports instead." Can you elaborate?

Lastly, my parts-list for this custom build is almost done. You seem very knowledgeable in Linux hardware stuff. Could I impose to ask that you give it a look over for incompatibilities or other problems that might of slipped by me?

nVidia chipsets started out good (nForce1) gthen ot better (nForce2) then got worse (nForce 3 and everything after).

I trust the AMD 7XX/8XX/9XX chipsets far more than the few nVidia chipsets still around.

Sorry, I dont have any more info on it.

Umm...you can get AMD A75 (socket FM2) motherobards for similar amount of $$$ to the older AM2/AM2+ boards. They come with USB 3.0 and SATAIII.

Firewire is OK, but its pointless to get unless you already have firewire devices.....and its not that much faster than USB 2.0. You'l pay a lot mroe for DDR2 over DDR3 as well. Unless you've got a pile of old parts you know 100% run fine, it would be cheaper to get a current FM2 board, CPU and DDR3 RAM than trying to find older (and slower) parts.

Youm can check using search terms like "T.I. TSB43AB23 linux". Dont expect to much though, not many people had/have firewire devices. I actualy have a motherobard with a T.I. TSB43AB23, but I turn it off in the BIOS, and I dont have any firewire devices to check with.

The motherobard chipset supports SATA ports, and the motherobard chipsets work better than the cheap and nasty addon SATA chips.

Sure.

There are thousands of variables in pc boards. Each day companies use different parts, different revision and different build date products in them. Unless the board is certified to run some linux OS it can't be know how stable it could be. If you need stable and certified then go with a server or other linux system from big name companies with linux loaded on it from factory. It is the only way to be somewhat sure.

No link, but some of the 7XX (and earlier) southbridges were known for their bad USB performance. With the Gigabyte board I mentioned earlier I never had this problem.

Okay, I'll ditch the nVidia board from my parts-list. Thanks for the warning. I did thorough search of the motherboards starting from the most recent (that was about six months ago),and worked my way back...the AMD770 boards were the only ones I found to meet my needs. All the rest either had junk I didn't need (zillion PCIe x16 slots, SATA 6Gb/s, USB3, etc.) or didn't have what I do need (lotsa PCI/PCIe x1 slots, FDD connector, USB2, SATA3Gb/s, double PS/2 connectors, and so on).

Regarding TSB43AB23, can you or anyone translate this:
http://hardware4linux.info/component/17439/
to simple terms...like are they saying it works, or sorta works, or not at all? Cannot seem to find any 'key' to this site; looks like it should be very helpful though.

I'll try to give my parts list tomorrow, as today I wasted too much of my public computer time finding a replacement for Lavabit, and I'm not a fast typist. Thanks for saying you will look it over! I'm always paranoid I'll get this PC done, only to find I overlooked some problem, and have to take it back to the custom-build shop for major overhaul.

They are saying that it works out of the box on all distros mentioned on that site, except Mandriva 2009.0 i586, where it only partially worked. The key to understanding can be found here: http://hardware4linux.info/

Hmm....interesting. I've got a GA-770T-USB3 here and it does have some problems with USB flash drives (very slow!)

PCIe x16 slots work with all PCIe devices. x1/x4/x8 cards work in x16 slots, a x1 slot will only work with x1 cards (unless uou want to cut down the physical conenctors..not recommended)

SATAIII ports will work with SATAII devices.

You can get 970 chipset boards with 2 x ps/2. You'll also get a better southbridge, SATAIII, USB 3.0 + USB 2.0. Most of the AXX (FM1 + FM2 socket) have at least 1 x ps/2 port, and using a USB-> ps/2 adapter isnt hard. About all that will be missing is a floppy port....What possible use could anyone have for a floppy drive these days? If you really need one USB floppy drives are around....

Been trying to research this bug, but Google is being obstinate- any idea of search terms to use?

Excellent!
 

Many thanks...think this site may now be a major help!

My parts-list
 

Before giving my parts list I wish to remind that this is a legacy-oriented build (to what degree you can decide), and this emphasis extends to the software. Linux distro versions I've acquired for trial use kernels 2.4.31 (DSL) to 2.6.29.6, and my first goal in choosing hardware is to ensure this range of kernels are supported.

My parts list still has some holes that need filling, such as the video capture card, so user recommendations are needed. Some other components (such as the NIC) I'm deadlocked between two or more models and welcome tiebreaker assistance. Also, warnings of incompatibilities are welcomed. So on to the list:


CONSOLE- Requirements:full-size tower;at least eight 5.25" external bays;seven expansion slots...ports:2eSATA, 2 firewire, 8 USB2.0, & headphones jack. Would like one 3.5 external bay. Prefer construction of steel frame & aluminum panels, but will settle for all steel or all aluminum. Would like to make PC quiet. Looking at:
Cooler master STC-TO1-UWK
" " RC-810-SKN1
Thermaltake VA8003BWS
Xigmatek CCC-HSA0DS-U01
Antec Twelve Hundred

CASE FANS-
Enermax Marathon Enlobal UC-12EB
Noctua NF-F12 120mm

*CPU-
Phenom II X6 1055T (95W)

CPU FAN-
Noctua NH-D14
Coolermaster Hyper 212 EVO
Zalman CNPS1OX

PSU- Various power calculators say I need 650 to 675W, but I'm wanting a bit more. Choices are:
Seasonic 760W 80Plus Platinum SS-760XP2
Corsair TX750
Kingwin LZP-750
Corsair AX-760

MOTHERBOARD- in order of preference:
GA-MA770-UD3
GA-MA770T-UD3
GA-770T-UD3P
GA-770TA-UD3
GA-770T-USB3

MEMORY- Depends on board chosen, but I want the high end sort, and to fill all DIMM sockets...if anyone wants to recommend memory modules for the five boards above, please do!

NIC CARD- in order of preference:
DGE-528T
Intel EXPI9301CTBLK PRO/1000
Netgear GA302T
Startech ST1000BT32

*SOUND CARD-
Asus Xonar D2

*GRAPHICS CARD-
Either Geforce 6800GS or 6800GT (PCIe x16, 256 to 512MB)

VIDEO CAPTURE CARD- Must include 'framegrabber' function.
No idea! Suggestions welcomed for PCI or PCIe card type.

IDE/EIDE DVD BURNER- Would much prefer one I can easily make into 'all-formats' or 'region-free'.
No idea! Suggestions welcomed.

IDE/EIDE HARD DISC DRIVE- 500GB size required. Maybe:
WD5000JBRTL
WD5000AAJB
WD5000AAKB
WD5000KS
WD5000AAKB-OOH8AO

IDE/EIDE HDD MOBILE RACK- Maybe:
PCTek KF-201DF
Lian Li RH-32
" " RH-600

SATA (3Gb/s)DVD BURNER- I'm considering Plextor PX-880SA, but welcome suggestions, just no Sony brand.

SATA HARD DISC DRIVE- SATA 3Gb/s & 750GB required. Maybe:
WD7500AVCS
WD 7500AAKS-OOBA0

SATA HDD MOBILE RACKS- Maybe:
Kingwin KF-201-DF
" KF-1000-BK
SNT-SAS136B
Vantec MRK-300ST-BK
iStarUSA T5F-SS
iRack MRA300

5.25" BAY DEVICE-
Lian Li BZ-UO1

5.25" HDD COOLER- Want two to fit between the three HDDs.
Akust 5.25 PC Front Grill Cooler #FG00-0037-AKS
Lian Li 5.25" Triple 40mm Extreme Bay Cooler
Evercool 5.25 Cross Flow Fan

EXTERNAL HDD DOCKING STATION- For making backups. eSATA or Firewire preferred. Maybe:
Orico 6618SUS-BK
Rosewill RX-DUS100

FLOPPY DRIVE- For internal floppy drive connector.
Bytecc BT-145
NEC FD1231

PCI/PCIe EXPANSION CARDS- Depends on motherboard chosen, and which chips Linux rejects, but will likely need at least eSATA and Firewire cards that work with Linux:
LaCie eSATA PCI Card #130823
Startech PEX1394B3 Firewire PCIE Card

LCD MONITOR- Require 1024x768. No touchscreen.
ViewEra V151HV-B

MOUSE-
Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer

KEYBOARD-
Microsoft Multimedia Keyboard

WIRED ROUTER- Require NAT & SPI;gigabit WAN.
TP Link TL-R600VPN
Netgear FVS336G
Trendnet TWG-BRF114
Cisco Linksys RVS-4000

UPS- It must cover minimum 675W, and have quiet operation.
Cyberpower CP1350PFCLCD
APC BR1500 LCD

MEMORY CARD READER-
Plugable Technologies Plugable 2.0

SCANNER-
Canon Canoscan LIDE 30

COLOR INKJET PRINTER- Require each color to have separately replaceable ink cartridge; above average color graphics & photo print quality, & easy Linux setup. Much prefer single-function printers.
HP Officejet Pro 800 Enterprise
" " 6000 Wireless Printer
Epson WF7010

MONOCHROME LASER PRINTER- Require double sided printing (auto-duplex), use reasonably priced toner, have above average text print quality. Single-function printers much preferred.
Brother HL-2040
" HL-5370DW
Dell 2350D
" 3330DN
HP Laserjet Pro 400 M401DN
" " " " M401DNE
" " " P1606DN
Xerox Phaser 3250


* These components are already decided on, so its very unlikely I'll change them.

That is one of the most confusing 'everything including the kitchen sink' setups I've ever seen.

You've got parts all over the place, many of which are pretty much useless. Why buy a gigabit network card when you'll get gigabit onboard?

Some of those parts you'd have to buy 2nd hand, _if_ you can find them at all, and they are outclassed by newer parts that you could find cheaper, e.g. Phenom II X6 1055T, Geforce 6800GS/6800GT.

Some things are stil avaible, but stupidly priced. Who is going to pay $220 for a 15'' 1024x768 ViewEra V151HV-B LCD?

Some stuff was pretty much a joke when it was new, e.g. the bay coolers. 3 x 40mm fans blow very litle air and are noisy.

A lot of it makes no sense at all to me. Why on earth have 1 x SATA burner and 1 x IDE burner? (and BTW, plextor used to be amazing, these days they are just average and have been rather anti-linux a few times) . Why on earth 'fill' all the RAM slots when at least with the DDR3 boards you can max out the RAM with 2 sticks (less RAM sticks tends to be more stable). Why look at HDD coolers when there are various cases you've listed with hard mounted fan spots for the 5.25''/3.5'' bays?

I keep looking at all those 'mobile racks', which are fine if you need and have a use for them, are actually counterproductive if you dont...think that doesnt make sense? Well, its pretty hard for the airflow from a 3 x 40mm bay cooler (or better yet, a 80mm+ fan mounted to the case) to reach the HDD at all if its stuck into a 'mobile rack'. There is also stuff like the eSATA card, which is an error on various levels IMO- its PCI so its limited to 133MB/sec....2 x eSATA can use more than 133MB/swec bandwidth. Most of the gigiabyte AMD 770 (and others as well) chipsets support chnaging 1 or 2 SATA ports to eSATA.

I'd be rethinking this whole setup.

*edit and the Phenom II X6 has turbocore, which requires linux kernel 2.6.35 onward. Old distros without turbocore support might work, but I wouldnt use them with a turbocore CPU.

What is the intended use anyway?

I've been doing Google search: Realtek 8111c+linux problems. I have not found alot, but what I have seen, I ain't liking much. Why buy a gigabit network card? The Realtek chip might not work with my chosen legacy kernels, or it might not work at 1000Mbit, or the onboard could fail after year or two. Call it contingency planning, call it risk mitigation, call it future proofing, call it hoarding...whatever floats your boat. I call it a spare parts bank. I sure cannot depend on Newegg,
TigerDirect,etc., to have what I want when I want it! Despite my network of legacy suppliers, I can no longer find Asrock K10N78D, M3N78D, & M3N78d FX. As for the network card, I'll include it with the parts I present to the custom-build shop, with instructions to confirm that the onboard will work with Linux at 1000Mbit, and if not , disable, and install the card.

Everything on my parts-list I have a source for (how long I can't say). Legacy parts come, they go, sometimes they return, sometimes not. Some are used, some refurbished, some new (i.e. unopened). I've no desire to cheapskate this build, nor to spend more than necessary. A bargain is no bargain unless its worth more than you pay, and its exactly what you want. If I have to pay $220 for the specific LCD monitor I want, I got no problem with that....yet I'm quite unwilling to waste $1000 for some 50" next-gen LCD that the herd is drooling over...go figure! Guess my priorities are just all screwed up, huh? What can I say but that going legacy comes at a price, and I'm content to pay it. Some components are a lot cheaper than when Newegg sold them, and some a lot more expensive.

I'll re-evaluate the bay coolers. I'd intended to sandwich them between the three HDDs:
HDD #1
cooler
HDD #2
cooler
HDD #3
Maybe leaving the two 5.25 bays empty will add a little cooling via better air circulation? FYI, I was aware of the 51.5dBA of the Lian Li cooler, but was planning to replace the Sunon fans with quieter ones if I'd gotten it (but was leaning towards the Evercool). Why look at HDD coolers? Maybe because I had anticipated the problem of using mobile-racks, and thought any additional cooling of 'bay coolers' and added 'case fans' was wise? If you don't agree, then tell me what will get the job done, as I'm out of ideas, and I absolutely need the mobile-racks.

One SATA burner & HDD for those kernels that support it; one IDE/EIDE burner & HDD for any that don't.

I got no big crush on Plextor- two Linux sites gave PX-880SA a cheer, but if you want to suggest a model number from when they "used to be amazing", I'll look for it. If you want to suggest a better brand/model number, feel free (just no Sony).

Research indicated that the only thing more expensive than high-end RAM is the bigger size modules of high-end RAM. But I'll listen to your recommendations...whether or not I can afford to act on them is another story.

Thanks for the eSATA card tip-exactly sort of info needed, as that mistake would of sailed past me. So would a eSATA card for PCIe x1 slot work? Is the firewire card good to go if needed?

Total overhaul? I think not! All is needed is to iron out the wrinkles, and trim the fat.

The intended use is inconsequentia. Any junk computer on sale at Walmart could do the usual uses. The purpose is what's important. Focus on making sure this build supports kernels 2.4.31 through 2.6.29.6, and that there are no fatal incompatibilities. That's what I need help with...rest will take care of itself.

I still don't quite get what your actual goal is for that machine. Need support for the kernels you mentioned? Just use a VM, no need for some legacy build.

I dont see anything at all specical about that 15'' ViewEra V151HV-B. $220 at newegg-

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16824138063

You could get a 4:3 17'' 1280x1024 for half the cost, ASUS VB178T $110 at newegg-

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16824236291

A 19'' would only cost afew $$ more, and you could even get a refurbished 20'' 1600x1200 for about the same cost. Lenovo ThinkVision L200p 20'' for $115 at newegg-

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...9SIA2PF0V95398

Research has left out a few major details then.....

DDR2 is now expensive, DDR3 is cheap.

4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR2 800 is going for $55+. 2 x 2GB DDR2 1066 (more 'high end') is $65+.

16GB DDR3 1600 is going for $110+.

No matter what 40mm fans you get, they will still be either loud, move tiny amounts of air, or both.

At least some of the cases you listed have 80mm/120mm case fans...they blow more fair than 3 x 40mm fans, are quieter, and a lot cheaper.

You wont get good airflow through mobile racks. EVen if you do some hacking/moding (e.g hacking air holes into the rack case), the amount of airflow is still very low. Just one of the reasons why I really dislike removable HDD racks.

You'll find problems with every bit of hardware.

There is no point in buying a networkcard 'just in case the onobard fails'. Network cards are always avaible, mostly cheap, and very easy to install. Buying now in case of problems later is just increasing your costs for no gain.

Of course not. Old motherboards disappear and tend to never come back.

Really, really bad idea.

Sometimes the older stuff is cheaper..but a video card that used to cost $500+ on sale now for $250 is not a bargin if (as is the case) a $100 GT 640 is faster everywhere, has a much better 'feature set' and uses a lot less power.

I looked through some other threads you had on your 'legacy' stuff with ancient kernels.

I cant see any good reason to do it, and you havent given any when people have asked/wondered what the point is.

Sorry, but I dont like to help people who want to run obsolete and unsupported OSes.

TobiSGD has a good point. Dont bother with all this 'legacy' stuff that is going to cost you more than a modern system. Just run a current OS with decent hardware supoport and 'test' your ancient OSEs/kernels in a VM.

The suggestion of a VM presupposes that I do not really want to do a build using legacy hardware, and looking for some option that will allow me to do a 'latest&greatest' build using the freshest and most recent components.

The fact is I have absolutely no interest in doing any sort of 'latest&greatest' build, so it therefore follows I would have no interest in using VM to make possible the doing of such a build. This is a legacy build, and this is not going to change.

Of course you don't! The ViewEra uses 1024x768, which I know Geforce 6800 series can handle (and most of my targeted kernels too), it has VGA, and it does not have that gawd-awful touchscreen nonsense. Yeah sure, and if my video card or kernels cannot handle your "1280x1024" monitor, why that's no problem at all- just get a current graphics card (I bet this is where that GT640 sneaks in)and exchange that old Ubuntu 9.04 with a new Ubuntu 13.04 (that's sure to support it), and once I've been conned into going that far, I might as well go whole-hog; scrap the legacy build altogether and do a full-on 'latest&greatest' build!

Okay, point taken...research has left out a few major details. I'll look into it further, and welcome more info on RAM.

I still require mobile-racks. I doubt you like them that has built-in fans any better.

Network cards are always available. CPUs are always available. Graphics cards are always available. Question is will the network card, the graphics card, and the CPU I want always be available? The Asrock motherboards I wanted sure ain't, so I suspect the answer is no!

Let me clue you in. Whether or not you can "see any good reason to do it" is less than meaningless. I have absolutely no need to provide any such good reasons to justify myself, my build, my goals, or anything else to anyone. I do not require your approval to do a legacy build, nor do I require anyone's permission to do so. So if you "don't like to help people who want to run "obsolete and unsupported OSes", no apology is necessary, but I am curious as to why you're here. Just what is the raison d'etre for your presence and participation in this thread? From the get-go, I made it crystal clear this was a legacy build, beginning with legacy software, moving into legacy hardware, and asking for help choosing legacy components to support legacy kernels 2.4.31 through 2.6.29.6. Just where were you decieved into thinking this was not about "obsolete and unsupported OSes"?

You really dont know hardware do you?

There should be no problem running a 1280x1024 or 1600x1200 monitor with earlier xorg versions. I know that worked with debian 'sarge' which is ealier than your target. Geforce 6 series goes to 2048x1536 @ 85Hz (and earlier, I've run a GF4MX440 @ 1920x1440).

download.nvidia.com/ndemand/product_overview/PO_GeForce_6_series_24.pdf

If 'the XXXX' is just a model number picked because its old then there will be supply issues. Try finding replacement pistons for a model T ford.

But as long as you have currently supported hardware expansion slots, finding a network card that is linux friendly is pretty easy.

Its not like you're trying to find a ISA network card. PCI might go away soon, PCIe is going to be around for a long time...

I'm here trying to help people with hardware for use with linux.

I never said I was 'decieved', and there are some supported OSes which use very early kernels.

I do debate how 'legacy' this is. A 2004 video card (6800 series) with a 2008 IIRC chipset (nVidia 720d) and a 2010 CPU (Phenom II X6 1055T) to run linux kernels from 2009 and earlier isnt really a 'legacy' build IMO, its a mess.

I suspect the only reason to suggest VM is because you wish to believe (along with so many others) that I don't really want to do a legacy build, using legacy components, as I'm really only looking for a way to do a 'latest&greatest' build, and so will embrace any alternative that makes this possible. The reality is that this is a custom-build,designed specifically to run legacy software, using legacy components chosen to support legacy kernels 2.4.31 through 2.6.29.6. As I already said so many times before that I'm starting to think I've been trapped in a TV commercial, where I must constantly repeat the product name and salient points endlessly.

The fact is I have absolutely zero interest in either buying or building a PC utilizing the newest, greatest, & factory-freshest components, so it therefore follows I got no interest in using VM to make possible such a build.

If all the components in this build can handle the increased screen resolution, and the linux kernels can also handle it, then I will reconsider the monitor choice. Just know that 'touchscreen', and non-VGA connectors are not acceptable.

I'll let you and the 'latest&greatest' zealots fuss it out as to whether or not my choice of CPU, video card, and motherboard is or is not legacy. As for "its a mess", maybe if you gave one-tenth the effort into trying to fix the mess, as you do in thinking up ploys to convert this 'legacy' build into the exact opposite, it would not be so. If you want to help me un-mess this build, and finish this parts-list, that would be appreciated. If you only goal is to talk me into wanting what I don't want, or not wanting what I do want, that is not appreciated. I don't care what the 'latest&greatest' CPU is called (Bulldozer? Atomsmasher? Planet Buster? Space-time Ripper?), how many cores it has, how much cheaper it is than Phenom2 x6,etc. I also don't care that XP Pro is about to go 'end of support', so it tends to follow that I'll have the same outlook about Linux distro releases that are 'EOL', no longer supported, etc. Your wants ain't my wants, your needs ain't my needs.

You realize that a machine with the CPU you plan to use (I actually have the same CPU in my main machine) is capable to run several VMs simultaneously without any problems? So you actually are already building a machine that you don't want to build.

'Designed specifically to run legacy software', eh?

If you want a system to run 'legacy software' then you really want hardware older than the oldest linux kernel version you plan on using.

2.4.31 is a mid 2005 release, so you want hardware older than that. Using 2008 chipset and 2010 CPU is more than likely going to run into some _major_ problems.

If you had given a decent reason for your pseudo-legacy build, maybe you would have recived a better expereince?

Suggesting using a 9XX chipset over a 8XX or 7XX does not make this a 'latest and greatest' build.

If you really want a hardware suggestion-

AMD 2500+ (or other 'barton' CPU), Abit NF7-S ver 2.0 baord. Or A Socket 939 board and a Winchester, venice or clawhammer athlon 64.

This is a troll thread if no one has noticed yet. Hate to bump it but seems no one has realized this. No one with half a brain would do this deliberately. If he/she really thinks they are gonna save money or make the build cost less by going ancient he / she is beyond help if this is a legitimate thread.





That or OP is a true real life hipster?\

I'll probably get reported for this post.

While the OP has been very quiet on some issues (like 'what is the intended use'), but I dont think its a troll thread.

I've seen many 'legacy' systems, and built a few (mostly for old DOS or Win9X era gaming). While this is one of the craziest parts lists I've seen, I can see how the OP picked at least some of the parts they want.

Its just overall the system doesnt make sense, and will not work properly with the ancient kernels the OP wants to use.....and could even cause hardware damage.

I doubt its about money....Even if you check the parts that are somewhat getable new now, they arent cheap.

You could build a whole new system for less than the cost of the bay coolers, mobile racks, docking station etc..

Yes, I'm aware that PhenomII x6 1055T is not perfect, it was just the best/most powerful I could find that would work with any/all the motherboards. I still got zero interest in using its VM junk.

Apparently, I will need to downsize my CPU choice anyway, if cascade9 is to be believed-getting harder to tell when he is serious,and when he's pulling another conversion attempt for the 'latest&greatest' cult.

Was wondering when the resident wannabe-censor would come a calling. Ain't nothing beats the shrill pig-like squeals of TROLL! TROLL! to silence them gawd-awful heretics, apostates, and other dissidents.

When you want to achieve your goal with spending much more money and getting parts not easily available for no good reason that is of course up to you. I was just mentioning that you already build a machine that you try to tell us we want to sell you.

If you believe cascade9 or not is also up to you, I personally would, he is one of the most knowledgeable members regarding hardware that LQ has.

Firstly, I've no doubt of cascade9's knowledge, but I've also no doubt of his fixation on herding me into using the latest'n'greatest components, newest distro releases, and so on. I've lost count of the number of times he has tried to do so...probably about as many times as I've said the word 'legacy'. I still have hope he will set aside this agenda.

Secondly, I'm trying to choose the best/newest/most powerful components possible that will still support and run Linux kernels 2.6.29 or prior. If I need to downgrade the CPU to Phenom II x4 ,or lower, then just tell me the best CPU I can hope for. So far as I can determine, the graphics cards and motherboards will do the job. If not, tell me what will, and don't tell me I need an AGP card, as I know that is bunk. Constructive criticism is okay, but pointless criticism (and disinformation) I can live with out. More help...less hinder.

First off, the fact you decided to target the distro with the absolute oldest kernel to base your suggestions on did not escape me. But point taken...its obvious to me I cannot alter my parts-list to accommodate DSL, just as I've no doubt it's obvious to you I'm unwilling to go back to Athlon/AGP graphics card era.

So you've picked the easiest target to deconstruct, let's hear your hardware recommendations for 2.6.29.

Or maybe there is absolutely no possible "decent reason" in anyone's mind, and had I stepped on this 'land mine', the debate-addicts, latest'n'greatest zealots, and wannabe-censors would of crawled out from under their rocks en masse and swamed me? We will never know.

The Phenom II X6 and the Phenom II X4 9xxT have the Turbo Core feature that will not work with kernels <2.6.34 and can even confuse the kernel so that the CPU will never run with its nominal frequency. So you are better of with a Phenom II that does not feature Turbo Core (one without the T in the name).

Telecolote, if you want any more help from me, then either-

Tell me what the intended use is, or
Apologise for all the 'you just want to do is push a latest and greatest build' posts.

Thanks for the info. Think maybe cascade9 already mentioned it, but it never quite registered with me (the conversion rhetoric has proven to be an effective distraction). Anyway, it looks like this means I gotta downgrade my CPU choice to Phenom II x4...can't say I like it much, as I really wanted six-core, but I'm willing to make any reasonable changes in my parts-list to accommodate kernels 2.6.28 through 2.6.11.

Unfortunately, when I decided on the Phenom II x6 1055T, I threw out all notes & printouts on the x4 CPUs, so I'm starting from scratch, and there are a lot of models to look over. I'd much appreciate knowing which one you think might work best for the kernels I'll be using. That would at least give me a 'start-point', and cut down research time. As I'm fast approaching deadline, such shortcuts are much needed.

There is no difference between the Phenom II X4 CPUs (except power consumption), so you can get anything with the T in the name (and of course the 920 and 940, which are AM2+ only).

Linux kernel 2.6.8 release date - 14-Aug-2004
Linux kernel 2.6.11 release date - 02-Mar-2005

AMD 770 chipset (inital) release date- 19-Nov-2007
nVidia 720d release date- Dec-2007

1st Phenom II release date- 09-Feb-2009

Using a kernel that much older than the hardware is stupid. And asking for hardware damage. Early kernels could have issues 'finding' multipule cores on AMD machines (or at all if you go far enough back), ACPI/frequency scaling might not work or if they work at all, work 'sub-optimally'........

*edit-

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...item=998&num=1

My mistake-I meant kernels 2.6.28 through 2.6.11. The distractions are starting to wear down on my ADD & dyslexia, and typos are one result. When it comes to this at least, we are in agreement, and you have no need to convince me. I'm already well aware that I will obviously not be able to conform my parts-list to meet the requirements of DSL...and probably some others nearly as old. For these, it will have to be 'pot-luck'. I'll give them a go as a live CD/DVD, if that works, I'll try an install, and if that works, I'll give them a week to month test-drive.

We definitely part company with your suggestion to start with the oldest kernels first, as common sense dictates its much more likely I can alter my parts-list to accommodate kernel 2.6.28 than 2.6.11, so I'm gonna have to go the opposite route, and start with the newest kernel first. The big question to answer is starting with kernel 2.6.28, how far back can I go (towards 2.6.11), before the component changes required become unreasonable?


]

I am not quite getting why you would do it that way, maybe you can elaborate on that. Common sense also will tell you that hardware that runs with 2.6.11 will also run with 2.6.28. Common sense will also tell you that you can save yourself the time and money if you would just build a middle class machine and use virtual hardware. It would really help us to help you if you tell us why you insist of using those old kernels, old hardware and why this hardware has to be physical. What is your intended use?

It should be obvious, but I'll spell it out....again.....

Wnat to use a Phenom II? OK. Whats the chance of a Phenom II running well if a Phenom wont run properly? Zero. You cant go any further back than 2.6.24 and get proper suppotr, even with a Phenom, let alone a Phenom II.

If you bothered to dig through old posts and reviews, you'll find plently of information-

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...item=478&num=3

So you wont run any AMD 7XX chipset properly on kernels earlier than 2.6.17, even if you use a Athlon 64 X2 CPU....

Either give up on running ancient unsupported kernels/OS versions, or use older hardware than you are planning.

Should the power consumption be important factor in deciding, or a non-issue?

I think cascade9 answered that question for me:
"You cant go any further back than 2.6.24", which means the range I will be trying to accommodate is 2.6.28 through 2.6.24, while the kernels 2.6.22 through 2.6.11.6 will have to take 'pot luck' with DSL.

I'm aware "that hardware that runs with 2.6.11.will also run with 2.6.28", but got no intention of going back to Athlon/AGP graphics card era, and it seems the older the kernel, the more likely this becomes necessary. According to cascade9, I would have to make unreasonable changes to my parts-list to provide hardware support for kernels prior to 2.6.24, so a lot of time has already been saved by not starting with the oldest kernel first. Its obvious to me that I'll be more likely able to make reasonable changes to accommodate the newest kernel(2.6.28.8) than the now oldest (2.6.24), and working backwards until I hit an impasse.

If I was interested it saving "time and money" and in "a middle class machine", common sense dictates I would skip the custom-build, trot on down to BestBuy/Walmart, and get a readymade junker that could easily do everything you're suggesting.

For them that still use Windows 98 & 2000, some go the VM route (but don't seem too happy with it), while most go for physical hardware...their only complaint seems to be finding the hardware. Like them, I got no interest in VM nor modern hardware, so common sense dictates I focus on what I am interested in, and not the reverse.

Jeez Louise!
 

...that was actually quite helpful. So now that I know the range of reasonable expectations, I'll focus on modifying the parts-list to accommodate kernels 2.6.28 to 2.6.24. This is not nearly as bad as I was expecting, being as it leaves only five of the sixteen distro releases unsupportable.

On the off chance this means you've actually decided to help, I'd like to hear your recommendations to alter my parts-list to support kernel 2.6.28?

Phenom II isn't going to run properly on 2.6.24, even if you get a non turbocore version.

2.6.29 should do it, but 2.6.30 is safer.

But are you even going to listen to that? I doubt it.

Depends...
 

If you're stuck on me jumping to 2.6.30...then no, that ain't on the menu. If you're referring to me dropping Phenom II, I'm now looking into Phenom x4 CPUs, but still no Athlon is being considered, and I've still no intention of dropping the motherboards or graphics cards.

Want to spend more money on less hardware that you'll possibly damage or blow up by using software to old for it? OK.

Phenom X4 is AM2+, you will have to use a different motherboard if you end up with that.

You're mighty good at whining about what I can't do, providing info you know to be useless (such as hardware suggestions to run DSL kernel), or advocating for the 'latest& greatest' dogma. Still not hearing much by way of useful info, useful criticism, ect., not that I'm surprised.

Yeah, well
 

You are partly right. GA-MA770T-UD3P & GA-770T-USB3 will not support Phenom x4...the other three will, says the Gigabyte site's CPU support list. Anyway, according to cascade9, I must rollback my CPU to either Phenom x4, Athlon II x4, or Athlon x2, in order to satisfy kernels 2.6.28 through 2.6.24. Three dismal choices. Which do you think is the best CPU for these kernels? I'll be doing some video editing, burning DVDs, and using GIMP/Photoshop CS3, in case it matters.

Athlon II is a modified Phenom II, so that won't help you. Phenom/Athlon X2 have horrible power/performance ratio when it comes to higher clockspeeds. For Photoshop/GIMP/video rendering the quadcore will be the better choice.

Not that a this build does make any sense for the intended purpose (at least the parts that you actually do tell us), but as always that is up to you.