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Old 01-18-2020, 09:09 AM   #16
business_kid
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I don't follow Apple at all. Their policy of 'lock them in and screw them good & hard' drives me away. I'm aware Intel have made up ground (In that they've progressed fast) but there's a lot of catch-up to do and there could be patent issues for them. I've never spent hundreds on a graphics card - never ever ever. I'm no gamer , and my intel graphics suck. I just don't try too hard to soup up the card, because the law of diminishing returns applies.
 
Old 01-18-2020, 09:52 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by business_kid View Post
my intel graphics suck.
Measured how? How old is it?

I have i3-4150T & 8086:041e, Haswell, from Q2'14, plenty fast enough for watching HDTV transport streams saved from my satellite dish, which are much more demanding than Youtubes.
 
Old 01-18-2020, 09:59 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmazda View Post
It certainly makes no sense in a typical business environment, where tens, hundreds or thousands are employed.
My (previous) employer is not a typical business environment, but with over 1500 students (including master and PhD ones) using Linux at the University of Delft it isn't all that small either. And we've always found out that for them NVidia cards (not the real expensive ones, although we used some of those too for CUDA development) were the best for usage within Linux.
For instance, my own system (which is like the ones I used to use at my job) uses a Quadro FX adapter. The Dell workstations used a different NVidia Quadro card, with about the same functionality. I.e. the Dell Precision 3630 comes with a NVIDIA Quadro P2000 graphics chip.

For something a "bit more" then a pure home system I've always found NVidia to deliver the goods.
 
Old 01-18-2020, 01:05 PM   #19
mrmazda
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ehartman View Post
My (previous) employer is not a typical business environment, but with over 1500 students (including master and PhD ones) using Linux at the University of Delft it isn't all that small either. And we've always found out that for them NVidia cards (not the real expensive ones, although we used some of those too for CUDA development) were the best for usage within Linux.
When was that?

Quote:
For instance, my own system (which is like the ones I used to use at my job) uses a Quadro FX adapter.
How old? The first were launched in 2003. I have one much newer, NVS 310 (DP+DP) from 2012. I can't remember noticing it's any better than a 2014 Haswell (HDMI+DVI+VGA; nominally older than OP's HD 4600), much less a 2017 Kaby Lake (DP+HDMI+DVI), or (imagining) a Coffee Lake one can buy new today.

Quote:
The Dell workstations used a different NVidia Quadro card, with about the same functionality. I.e. the Dell Precision 3630 comes with a NVIDIA Quadro P2000 graphics chip.
Do you mean came? IME Dell thoroughly obfuscates any given models' introduction/production dates. Current 3930 models seem to offer only Intel or AMD GPUs, while all the SFF 3431 workstations apparently are only Intel UHD.

Quote:
For something a "bit more" then a pure home system I've always found NVidia to deliver the goods.
When did you acquire last? PC hardware has a history of fast changes that hasn't yet ended AFAICT. Intel graphics in particular had a series of massive performance improvements that began when the GPU was moved onto the CPU die.
 
Old 01-18-2020, 02:35 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmazda View Post
Measured how? How old is it?

I have i3-4150T & 8086:041e, Haswell, from Q2'14, plenty fast enough for watching HDTV transport streams saved from my satellite dish, which are much more demanding than Youtubes.
Mine is HD4000 (Ivy Bridge) end 2012, delivered 2013.
I didn't care. I streamed to two screens of different sizes once and the only thing to let me down was a rather gutless power supply which added noise to the show. But in realistic terms, I had better performance from an old Nvidia mx-440 given to me as a cast off by my son, who migrated to Macs for his Job.
 
Old 01-18-2020, 02:57 PM   #21
ehartman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmazda View Post
Do you mean came?
I mean COMES, I looked it up just before my message and it IS available now.
Note that when I say "workstation" it mostly means XEON cpu('s, as they often have sockets for extra CPU chips). They often don't come with a default graphics ONboard chip (the one I quoted did), so then you would have to choose an adapter board anyway.
My own HP Workstation is already older, as I bought it when still working there (and it still fulfills all of my needs). But it too does NOT have graphics onboard.

PS: the current default configuration at the TU Delft for a workstation is:
Code:
Dell Precision T5820

Specifications

Housing
Minitower 417,9mm (H)x176,5mm (B)x518,3mm (D) 

CPU
IntelŽ XeonŽ processor W-2123 3.6GHz Turbo, 4C, 8.25M Cache, HT, (120W) DDR4-2666  

Memory
8 GB (1 x 8 GB) 2.666 MHz DDR4 ECC RDIMM

Hard disk
2,5 inch  512 GB SATA klasse 20 Solid State Drive

2nd Hard disk
Not included

Optical drive
16x half-high DVD+/-RW drive

Graphics card
2 GB NVIDIAŽ QuadroŽ P620, 4 mDP

LAN
Integrated Intel AHCI chipset

RAID-controller
Not included (use is not recommended)

Mouse
Dell MS116 wired optical mouse, black 

Keyboard
Dell multimedia keyboard KB216 US/International (QWERTY), black 

Monitor
Not included

Monitor adapter
Not included

Service/warranty
4 years ProSupport Flex Client, Next Business Day on-site service
But you can order additional hardware (like a 2nd disk, monitor, etc.) with the order.
And you see the NVidia is still standard.
 
Old 01-19-2020, 07:00 AM   #22
ondoho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmazda View Post
Conclusion: whether or not it could be better is of no importance to you.
No, that's not what I meant.
TBH, your previous post rather added to my confusion than solving it. It seemed to address my question in a very roundabout and tangential way.

I did try different drivers (also uninstalled xf86-intel-video at some point) following your advice - the result was OK resolution-wise, but with screen tearing during media playback & gaming, so I ended up going back to what I already had. I did not notice any other differences. What could be better?

Quote:
Originally Posted by business_kid View Post
Might I point out that compared with the competition, every Intel graphics card to date sucks?
What you guys are at in motor biking terms is like trying to soup up a 50cc?

You don't accept Intel only (Like I did) if you're concerned about graphics performance. Why bother greatly, when at the end of your efforts the thing still sucks?
This is about as helpful as saying "It doesn't matter what distro you install on your old 32 bit lappy, because it will still remain an old 32 bit lappy no matter what".

Of course it matters if my GPU is able to deal smoothly with everything I throw at it (mostly not games).
Whether it has room to spare, and how much, is not interesting to me.

Last edited by ondoho; 01-19-2020 at 07:08 AM.
 
Old 01-20-2020, 05:52 AM   #23
business_kid
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I don't want to get involved in a protracted debate. There's a law of diminishing returns which applies when you try to soup a 50cc motorbike. In a similar way, it applies to Intel graphics cards. Sure, you make sure they're direct rendering, on suitable drivers. Driver updates past a certain point are usually adding new models, not optimising yours. But knock yourself out if you think it will give you a difference you will notice. The modesetting driver improved things for me.
 
Old 01-20-2020, 03:56 PM   #24
ondoho
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Driving within city limits, it doesn't matter whether I use a 50cc bike or whatever the two-wheeled equivalent of a Maserati or a Hummer is - I still drive max. 50km/h.
And you know what they say about people that insist on driving a Maserati or a Hummer within city limits...
 
Old 01-20-2020, 04:09 PM   #25
mrmazda
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ondoho View Post
And you know what they say about people that insist on driving a Maserati or a Hummer within city limits...
I don't, and Google doesn't seem to either.
 
  


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