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Old 04-23-2007, 07:54 AM   #1
Hairulfr
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Choosing a Nvidia-Chipset


Hi.
I'm about to buy a new gfx-card. I currently own a nvidia 6600 and I want Nvidia again.
My question is this, what should i buy?
Not too expensive and not too slow (I sometimes play games like BF2 and the like), PCI-E.


I'm lost in the huge number of cards out there and all the diffrent manufacturers using Nvidia chipsets.
I currently have my eye on:

Gigabyte GF 7600GS 256MB GDDR2

GeForce 7600GT (GV-NX76T256D-RH), 256MB GDDR3

Innod3d GeForce 8500GT, 512MB DDR2

Inno3D GeForce 7600GS, 512MB DDR2

Asus EN7600GT/SI/2DHT/256MB, GeForce 7600GT

Asus EN7600GS/SI/HTD/512MB, GeForce 7600GS

So, there. They're all pretty much in the same pricerange, but I don't really know what performance differences they have and the like.
Google is quite unhelpful, I can find a few reviews, that's all.

Is the manufacturer unimportant? Should I just go after the specific chipset, I that case, which?
Of course, the card should be well supported on my box (Ubuntu), but this is, as far as I know, not really and issue with nvidia.

Last edited by Hairulfr; 04-23-2007 at 08:07 AM.
 
Old 04-23-2007, 09:45 AM   #2
stress_junkie
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The manufacturer may be very important to the performance of a given chip set. Sometimes manufacturers will over clock the chips or add extra RAM to the card. As far as selecting a card I don't have any preference between NVidia cards. I don't use high performance graphic software. I will say that I think NVidia does better on Linux than other manufacturers so I think that your decision to use NVidia is a good one.

Last edited by stress_junkie; 04-23-2007 at 09:47 AM.
 
Old 04-23-2007, 10:14 AM   #3
farslayer
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the 8500GT Supports DX10 and OpenGL 2.1
the 7600GT Supports DX9 and OpenGL 2.0

The 7600GT has double the fill rate of the 8500GT.
The 8600GT would be a better comparison for fill rate with the 7600GT

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compari...ocessing_Units

I wish you had posted your budget price.. we might be able to source another distributor and hit the same price range for you.. I'm guessing your price range is around $100.00 ?

Personally I'd want to go into the 8600GT series due to the support for the newer OpenGL Spec. Unfortunately that pushes the price point to around$150.00.

The 8500GT is underpowered you would be better off with the 7600GT than the 8500GT for performance.
 
Old 04-23-2007, 12:07 PM   #4
Hairulfr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farslayer
I wish you had posted your budget price.. we might be able to source another distributor and hit the same price range for you.. I'm guessing your price range is around $100.00.
The reason why I haven't quoted a price range is that the prices here are a lot higher than in the us and the rest of the world in general. My price range is exactley 182.20
USD

Your advice is the 8600 GT? Sounds good. The GFX-cards i've mentioned all fall within my pricerange.

Cheers StressJunkie. I can tell that some of them are overclocked and have quite a lot of ram.

Edit: I found af Inno3D GeForce 8600GT, 256MB GDDR3, in my pricerange, but what is Inno3D. I've never heard of it, and it's pretty cheap compared to the other 8600GT cards with the same specifications. Brr. Don't wanna buy something bad either.
Edit: Inno3D seems ok.

Edit: My pricerange just went up 364USD. But again - stuff overhere is expensive. The Inno3D 8600GT I mention above is 182 USD.
Edit: Now looking at the 8600GTS, I'm thinking that this is the one.

Last edited by Hairulfr; 04-23-2007 at 12:58 PM.
 
Old 04-23-2007, 09:06 PM   #5
farslayer
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I've been wanting a card like that... but until I upgrade my motherboard I'm stuck with an AGP card and I can't partake in any of that PCI Express GPU goodness.

My current system is a P4 2.8 Ghz with 1 GB RAM and a Geforce 4 4800SE.

Linux runs great on this box so I can't justify a New MB, CPU and RAM just to get a faster GPU

I would so like to do it though..

that 8600 GTS looks pretty sweet.
 
Old 05-05-2007, 11:21 AM   #6
cubdukat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farslayer
I've been wanting a card like that... but until I upgrade my motherboard I'm stuck with an AGP card and I can't partake in any of that PCI Express GPU goodness.

My current system is a P4 2.8 Ghz with 1 GB RAM and a Geforce 4 4800SE.

Linux runs great on this box so I can't justify a New MB, CPU and RAM just to get a faster GPU

I would so like to do it though..

that 8600 GTS looks pretty sweet.
I would hold off on the 8600GT until nVidia updates their drivers.

I've tried to get mine working with both Ubuntu Dapper 64-bit and Suse 10.2 32-bit, and even with the 1.0.9775 driver, it still can't recognize the GPU. and it locks up the system.

In fact, it gets so confused on Ubuntu that I couldn't even run the live CD to reinstall it because it can't start X. unfortunately, I don't know how to start an install from the shell using the Live CD. That's when I decided to try it with OpenSuse. I was able to compile the 9775 driver, but it had the same results.

I'll try to post my X logs, but for some reason, I don't have access to my XP drive in OpenSuse, and I am unable to connect from the shell (I'm still using dialup). Maybe if I can get them onto a thumb drive.

I was going to put Ubuntu Feisty Fawn on the system this weekend, but given that I'll be stuck with plain VGA and quite unable to enjoy some Beryl goodness, I think I'll wait until nVidia coughs up a new driver. Apparently the architecture of the new 8xxx cards is sufficiently different from the 8800's that the new driver doesn't even recognize it.

Guess this is what I get for trying to be Vista-compatible on the cheap...And no, that isn't a Vista plug. If I could find an HDTV Tuner card that could work in both XP/Vista and Linux, I'd dump it but quick.

Anyways, I must go try to get those logs...
 
Old 05-05-2007, 07:51 PM   #7
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Why upgrade video cards at all (ONLY unless you need more video RAM)? Is there a problem with your current video card? As I recall it sounded like it was pretty good and "should" handle most everything you throw at it; particularly, with just about any Linux distro.

I don't know what prices are like over seas (foreign) but here I recently picked up a PCI-E GeForce 7900GS with 256Meg RAM made by PNY for my WinTel rig and it wound up costing me about $150.00USD after rebates from CompUSA (which is a national "big box" brick and mortar chain in USA - possibly other countries too?). I can't tell you how it works under any Linux distro (yet) but it's GREAT with Vista! About the only thing "better" would be an NVidia 8800-series GPU something-or-other.

FYI: ONLY the NVidia 8800-series GPU's "natively" and "fully" handle DirectX-10. ATI or someone else may have something too, but I'm only talking about NVidia GPU's right now. I don't know who said it, but an 8600-series NVidia GPU may be DirectX-10 "capable" but it's still not fully or natively compliant. That's because some or most of the work load for DirectX-10 functions is handed off to the CPU and not handled "directly" or "fully" by the GPU on the card. As I said, right now ONLY an 8800-series NVidia GPU is "fully" and "natively" compliant with DirectX-10 standards, nothing else. However, any such animal will cost you a considerable bit of cash right now too (about $400.00USD and up)! And from what I've heard, performance between an 8800 and anything else is like night and day which would explain why prices are so high.

So my advice would be to not to do anything unless you "need" better performance or simply want better bragging rights ("vane" are we?). Even a 5200-series NVidia GPU which is less than what you already have (and assuming you use an AGP card) should work fine and even be able to at least "deal" with DirectX-10 or other 3D stuff. Of course, DirectX seems to be a big concern and since Microsoft dictates the DirectX standards we're really talking about Windows possibly even Vista rather than anything to do with Linux. I suspect you are having problems with the Vista's Aero features and is really why you want to upgrade. However, I can tell you the Aero features are NOT all it's cracked up to be. In fact, Vista seems to work better with Aero turned off (more responsive)! Even most Linux distro's seem to work "better" with older video cards, not that your's is even all that old, so save your money! L8R...
 
Old 05-06-2007, 03:28 AM   #8
cubdukat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparky
Why upgrade video cards at all (ONLY unless you need more video RAM)? Is there a problem with your current video card? As I recall it sounded like it was pretty good and "should" handle most everything you throw at it; particularly, with just about any Linux distro.

I don't know what prices are like over seas (foreign) but here I recently picked up a PCI-E GeForce 7900GS with 256Meg RAM made by PNY for my WinTel rig and it wound up costing me about $150.00USD after rebates from CompUSA (which is a national "big box" brick and mortar chain in USA - possibly other countries too?). I can't tell you how it works under any Linux distro (yet) but it's GREAT with Vista! About the only thing "better" would be an NVidia 8800-series GPU something-or-other.

FYI: ONLY the NVidia 8800-series GPU's "natively" and "fully" handle DirectX-10. ATI or someone else may have something too, but I'm only talking about NVidia GPU's right now. I don't know who said it, but an 8600-series NVidia GPU may be DirectX-10 "capable" but it's still not fully or natively compliant. That's because some or most of the work load for DirectX-10 functions is handed off to the CPU and not handled "directly" or "fully" by the GPU on the card. As I said, right now ONLY an 8800-series NVidia GPU is "fully" and "natively" compliant with DirectX-10 standards, nothing else. However, any such animal will cost you a considerable bit of cash right now too (about $400.00USD and up)! And from what I've heard, performance between an 8800 and anything else is like night and day which would explain why prices are so high.

So my advice would be to not to do anything unless you "need" better performance or simply want better bragging rights ("vane" are we?). Even a 5200-series NVidia GPU which is less than what you already have (and assuming you use an AGP card) should work fine and even be able to at least "deal" with DirectX-10 or other 3D stuff. Of course, DirectX seems to be a big concern and since Microsoft dictates the DirectX standards we're really talking about Windows possibly even Vista rather than anything to do with Linux. I suspect you are having problems with the Vista's Aero features and is really why you want to upgrade. However, I can tell you the Aero features are NOT all it's cracked up to be. In fact, Vista seems to work better with Aero turned off (more responsive)! Even most Linux distro's seem to work "better" with older video cards, not that your's is even all that old, so save your money! L8R...
In my case, I didn't really have a choice. My old P4 board died suddenly, and I ended up jumping over to AMD. I tried working with the onboard video, but ultimately I was going to have to upgrade, so I didn't have much of a choice. For some stupid reason, there are no Socket AM2 mobos with AGP slots--not to mention I suspect the GeForce 6600GT was the cause of the sudden death in the first place, since a previous PNY card also killed my previous P4 system in exactly the same way. It just took a full year to do it.

As for the 8600GT not being a true DX10 part, it is. I have yet to come across any reviews to the contrary. The main reason I picked mine up is that I wanted something Vista-compatible, and while Microsoft claims that DX9 parts can handle Aero...well, they also said that Vista would knock the computing world on their ass. Apparently their track record on knowing what they're talking about is not what it should be.

As I said before, I'll wait until new drivers hit, although I saw that Phoronix did a test with the 8600GTS using Feisty Fawn, so maybe I'll switch over to that one. They're supposed to be sending me my CDs, anyway.

nVidia really blew the rollout on the new cards. I don't think I've ever seen a screw-up this bad since the GeForce FX series. This is a screw-up of S3 Savage 2000 proportions
 
Old 05-06-2007, 10:23 PM   #9
Sparky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cubdukat
In my case, I didn't really have a choice. My old P4 board died suddenly, and I ended up jumping over to AMD. I tried working with the onboard video, but ultimately I was going to have to upgrade, so I didn't have much of a choice. For some stupid reason, there are no Socket AM2 mobos with AGP slots--not to mention I suspect the GeForce 6600GT was the cause of the sudden death in the first place, since a previous PNY card also killed my previous P4 system in exactly the same way. It just took a full year to do it.

As for the 8600GT not being a true DX10 part, it is. I have yet to come across any reviews to the contrary. The main reason I picked mine up is that I wanted something Vista-compatible, and while Microsoft claims that DX9 parts can handle Aero...well, they also said that Vista would knock the computing world on their ass. Apparently their track record on knowing what they're talking about is not what it should be.

As I said before, I'll wait until new drivers hit, although I saw that Phoronix did a test with the 8600GTS using Feisty Fawn, so maybe I'll switch over to that one. They're supposed to be sending me my CDs, anyway.

nVidia really blew the rollout on the new cards. I don't think I've ever seen a screw-up this bad since the GeForce FX series. This is a screw-up of S3 Savage 2000 proportions
---------------

Missing AGP slots on a AM2 mobo is not stupid. Go with a 939-socket mobo if you "need" AGP. I don't know about any one else but I don't want AGP devices dragging bus speeds down if there's something better. For that very reason (slow bus speeds) AGP is going the way of the ISA slots and frankly, it's going extinct. So much the better I say. After all, AGP is slower so why continue using it?

Nevertheless, if you've got a history of cards blowing your mobo, maybe you should be looking at the monitor or system power. Is it possible that your monitor is messed up somehow and not fully "compatible" with what the card needs? For example, I'd be making sure the monitor isn't drawing a heavy load from the card's signal(s) somehow, or that the reverse isn't true. It's kind of hard to find something like that these days but not if a really old monitor is still in use (or a really old card). Then again, could it be possible you have an "ol-cheapo" power supply like something that came with your case?! Get rid of it if it's not a "quality" power supply and also make sure you have clean AC! You'd be surprised just how much better things work with good power. (I'm also going to assume you don't have a high magnetic field causing this problem because that's a lot more bizarre but not necessarily unheard of either!)

I don't know who told you the 8600GT is "truly" a DirectX-10 GPU because it's highly doubtful. I suppose it depends on what was being said and I'd closely re-read any reviews to be sure they don't explicitly say the 8600 is a "fully" and "truly" DirectX-10 compliant GPU since I suspect they left something out when they say that. Something like, "it's fully DirectX compliant" (notice the missing version 10 in that statement) or "it's compatible with DirectX-10 standards" (notice the mention that it's only "compatible" or even "compliant" but not "fully"). True, the 8600GT can handle DirectX-10 code just fine and I never said it couldn't. It probably does quite well and even Windows probably tells you it's using DitrectX version 10 (from probably running "dxdiag"), but it's very likely still NOT fully compliant with DirectX-10 standards since the graphics portions require assistance from the "system" CPU from time to time. However, this is NOT the case with a 8800-series GPU because those GPU's requires no assistance from the system's CPU - according to the DirectX-10 graphics standard that is. Whenever graphics processing is handled entirely and "directly" by the on-board GPU can it be considered "fully" or "truly" DirectX compatible; but again, that's what the DirectX "standards" say. Simply put, if ANY DirectX functions are handled by the system's CPU when it shouldn't because the GPU should be doing it, then the card fails as a fully or truly DirectX card. Also keep in mind that the card may still work just fine and "fully" under DirectX control, it just isn't "fully" compliant with the hardware "standard."

That said, I'm not saying your 8600 isn't fully DirectX-10 compliant since I don't really know enough about it. Particularly, PNY or someone else may have even figured out a way to use older GPU's and bring them into full DirectX-10 compliance (probably, with a little extra hardware). I just find it highly doubtful since the experts I read at Ziff Davis's web site "ExtremeTech" (in particular, Lloyd Case) have pretty much said or implied over the several months that I've been reading what I've said here - it's not likely. You pretty much have to pay a lot of money and go with an 8800 if you want the total DirectX-10 experience. And last, you also have to consider that the 8800-series was the first in the line to be fully DirectX-10 capable (according to the standards which is one of it's bragging rights even), so it doesn't make a lot of sense to assume something earlier like an 8600 would be too. I hope that explains it a little better. L8R...
 
Old 05-07-2007, 12:46 AM   #10
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OpenGL requires a video card with massive memory bandwidth and GPU speed or grunt. Also a good amount of video memory is good too, but do research to make sure the memory speed is still within specs. Usually cards with large amount of video memory comes with slower memory chips probably clock slower than the card is rated for. Usually XFX and BFG are good brands for video cards.

I suggest not trying to find a video card that supports DirectX. DirectX is for boys and girls while OpenGL is for men and women. Linux does not use DirectX because it mainly uses OpenGL. OpenGL is better than DirectX.

FYI, DirectX uses main processor, main memory, and video card. While OpenGL is all handled by the video card. It is has been like this for years.

I strongly recommend do not buy a GeForceFX 5200. People are idiots when they think GeForceFX 5200 is cost effective. A GeForce6 6200 is more cost effective. A GeForce7 7300 GS will be even better. For a GeForceFX series, I recommend no less than a GeForceFX 5700 Ultra or else you will lose money.
 
Old 05-07-2007, 04:04 PM   #11
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I agree with Electro! I don't know HOW DirectX makes any difference with Linux -- that's a Microsoft standard! Still, a LOT of games don't necessarily run under Linux, and that usually means they need to be DirectX "compatible" so you can run them under Windows. Big surprise that there! DirectX and Windows come from Microsoft!!! So, for game play DirectX is usually a big concern. However, if you have a "choice" between DirectX and OpenGL then DON'T go with DirectX! But, like I said, a LOT of games "want" DirectX for all the cool graphics, sound and game play (and not necessarily "games" either). You might note that unlike OpenGL, DirectX has standards for EVERYTHING not just graphics, but sound and even how your CPU processes certain things (sort of a pseudo-OS you might even say). Personally, I don't like handing over all control like that, besides it's from Micrsoft and we all KNOW how good a job THEY do!

Definitely, use OpenGL or just about ANYTHING ELSE if you have the "choice"!

And as far as video cards go, I'd also suggest going with a NVidia 6200 or later GPU if you can afford it, particularly if all you have is an AGP slot. Also make sure whatever you get has a MINIMUM of 256Meg of video memory and hopefully FAST memory at that. If you have a PCI-Express slot then just about anything will work well (right now in history). Although my choice for PCI-E would be a PNY 7900GS since it seems to be just at or slightly under the budget concerns (after rebates, probably) and is only one generation behind the super fast and expensive 8800 models that are "fully compliant with DirectX-10 standards." And if DirectX is a major concern then you can rest assure that the 7900GS will work fully with DirectX-10 although NOT fully "compliant" with DirectX-10 since all video processing is NOT necessarily handled by the GPU (and if that bothers you, and you won the lottery or have an unlimited budge or something, then go with an 8800 something-or-other).
 
Old 05-07-2007, 05:00 PM   #12
farslayer
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Not to flame or anything but some of you need to go look at specs instead of speculating what video cards support and what they don't.. or provide reference that proves the manufacturer is lying.. .

Go view the tech specs on nVidias site.. They can't be lying or posting incorrect information, that would be false advertising.

the 7000 series does NOT support Direct X 10 irt only supports Direct X 9
the 8500, 8600, 8800 ALL FULLY support Direct X 10

the 7000 Series supports OpenGL 2.0
the 8000 Series supports OpenGL 2.1

DX was mentioned originally because it's in the card specs and a lot of people dual boot with windows for gaming. Open GL support is a bit more important in Linux so since the 8000 Series supports a higher version that would be my choice.

Please if you are going to provide tech information on hardware don't speculate or wing it if you aren't sure.. it's better to say "I'm not sure you may want to check the manufacturers specs" rather than give information that is just plain wrong. or at least cite the location that provided that information.
 
Old 05-08-2007, 07:48 PM   #13
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Well, to bring this away from this pointless DX10 vs. OpenGL debate since most if not all cards support DX and OGL, here's an update on my 8600GT experiences:

As I stated before, I upgraded to the 8600GT due to a complete system failure that required me to switch architectures. Previous to that I was running Suse 10.2 with a 6600GT AGP with very few if any problems. When I put the new board in, I ended up running 64-bit Ubuntu Dapper using the onboard graphics--in this case, a GeForce 6100. I ended up reinstalling Dapper and it worked as long as it was listed in xorg.conf as "vesa," but when I installed the driver from nVidia's site, it all went totally downhill. In fact, things got so bad that I couldn't even run the Dapper live CD to reinstall the system because X wouldn't start.

After that I decided to install 32-bit Suse 10.2, which actaully worked better because I didn't need to download everything to compile the driver as I did with Ubuntu. unfortunately, the results were the same, so I ended up going over to Ubuntu Feisty, but I could only install it using the alternate CD. Right now, the standard nv driver is working, but I'm going to attempt to use the Restricted Driver Manager to get the new driver. Hopefully that will work, because at least one website actually tested the 8500GT in Feisty, so apparently it does work.

As for why I was coming at it from a Windows-centric point of view, it's because my system is primarily a Windows system. Once I find an HDTV card that works in XP, Vista and Linux, I will switch over to Linux as my primary system, but until then Linux compatibility is not a primary concern. At least not until Ubuntu Studio hits...
 
Old 05-14-2007, 04:41 PM   #14
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Good Luck...

About all I can say at this point is "good luck."

Please beware that not too many video cards (if any) are able to provide a true HD signal when you plug them into a HDTV-set. Sure, most cards will display true "HD" parameters (like, 16:9) on a "monitor" connected either to DVI (HDMI) or even VGA, but as soon as you pipe it out another port like composite or even S-Video then all of a sudden you may only be looking at a signal that at best is only 480i, or if you're lucky 720p, either of which still look pretty good but they are still NOT "true" high-definition! If I recall correctly, 480i is the current scan rate for DVD's which most people admit looks pretty good. However, many players and even HDTV-sets themselves will probably up-convert a 480i signal to only 720p which is STILL not true "HD" (because the frames just don't hit that 1-MegaPixel minimum, but that also depends on who's math you believe too). 1080i or 1080p are the true "minimum" scan rates to be considered "true HD". Some manufacturers will probably argue that 720p IS true "HD" but they are doing fuzzy math to come up with that conclusion too - much the same way your "120Gig hard drive" can't ACTUALLY store 120-gigabytes of data - it's "fuzzy math"!

But what's REALLY throwing people off, I think, is the upcoming digital broadcast standards which will cause all NTSC over-the-air signals to stop. This only complicates matters because people all of a sudden think they will need all new TV-sets. Of course, the newer ATSC standards will replace NTSC and many "authorities" are quick to point out that ATSC is better because it's an all digital signal requiring less bandwidth and which can allow a broadcaster to transmit in true or full "HD" with no interference. But they often fail to complete that statement by saying that not all broadcasters WILL be broadcasting in true/full "HD" and that by being digital you either get the signal or your DON'T! In fact, many broadcasters still DON'T broadcast over the air in true "HD" provided you can even get the signal (although some do)! And it's because of that "fuzzy math" why they say they a 720p signal is "HD" (and I admit, the "industry" lightly considers 720p as "HD," but it really isn't).

But that brings us back to video cards and what THEY will do. Even a lowly 480i signal (the "DVD standard") from something like composite or S-Video on your video card is going to make you "think" you are looking at HD, but you're really not getting true "HD"; and arguments can STILL be made even there because of the "media versus signal" aspect. Very likely, your HDTV-set or something else (like your player or player software) will "up convert" a 480i signal (from standard DVD, for example) to 720p or even 1080i making it look that much better. But you HAVE to remember that the MEDIA you are watching is still likely NOT true "high definition"! And it doesn't matter WHAT you're video card is doing either. You may be pumping a true HD signal from your computer to your "HDTV" but is what you're watching really "high-def"? The answer is NO or maybe! However, that's where "Blu-Ray" and even "HD-DVD" come in because the MEDIA is encoded to true "HD" standards - and even THEN agrument can be made! Without true "HD" media (movies, really) or a true "HD" signal, it's kind of a waste of money to be getting an "HD" card for your computer. This is ALSO the advice Robert Heron gave on a more recent episode of DLTV. Think about it, if you can pump a true "HD" signal all the way from your computer to your HDTV-set but your media isn't true "HD" then why do it? I say don't!

So my suggestion is also to wait on any "HD" hardware purchases for your computer, at least until fall when things in the industry may pick up (and things also go on sale). If your current video card works then WHY fix it? I can only see a need to get another video card if your monitor or newest game needed it or something alone those lines. So save your money! You're likely going to need it when Microsoft rolls out their next big "doo-hickey"!
 
Old 05-14-2007, 06:12 PM   #15
Hairulfr
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To anyone interested i chose the nvidia 7950GT - huge advantages over some of the others and everything runs smooth. Thanks to all for your replies!
 
  


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